talk about moot points. We have a living Goverment. That is what are forefathers were smart in giving us. The laws that we make today are just as valid as the laws that they made back then. In fact laws that abolish slavery or allow woman to vote are actually much better then what they could ever do. SO that is why this matters


Supreme Court since 1947

The phrase "separation of church and state" became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools. While the ruling upheld the state law allowing taxpayer funding of transportation to religious schools as constitutional, Everson was also the first case to hold the Establishment Clause applicable to the state legislatures as well as Congress, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

In 1962, the Supreme Court extended this analysis to the issue of prayer and religious readings in public schools. In Engel v. Vitale 370 U.S. 421 (1962), the Court determined it unconstitutional by a vote of 6-1 for state officials to compose an official school prayer and require its recitation in public schools, even when it is non-denominational.....



It is the law today whether you like it or not. Whether Jefferson ever meant his words to be so powerful the men who made laws in the path he laid are just as important to our understanding of the law as he is.

Yes now you get it!!!!!

All these ideas from Churchs belong in Religious History class.
Simple easy solution that everyone can agree on

Ok I think I have been answering your post's well but I will make it more clear the. I have tried to Google and find a School that does not do the pledge. I have not found one yet. You say your son's dosn't then that is one in the whole nation. When all schools stop it then it will be good.

In the theory area I am trying to show you that science class is not just open to any theory. It is only open to science. It is not something that people take a popularity test on and then decide to put that in the text book. That may happen in history, that may happen in, political science, that may happen in philosophy and english class but not science. Science is hard fact only.

If it was just theroies that many people believed in then we would have to throw in the China one and The India one and the ..... so on and so on. The problem that people that want there own little theory never see is that if they ever succeeded in getting it in. Then every other theory would have to be given a chance.

Ok good when can I march my theory in? Also if you are going to say only well known


Oh but you said the well known....

well here is from China the most populace nation

In the beginning there was darkness everywhere, and Chaos ruled. PanguWithin the darkness there formed an egg, and inside the egg the giant Pangu came into being. For aeons, safely inside the egg, Pangu slept and grew. When he had grown to gigantic size he stretched his huge limbs and in so doing broke the egg. The lighter parts of the egg floated upwards to form the heavens and the denser parts sank downwards, to become the earth. And so was formed earth and sky, Yin and Yang.

So there you go. Science class will be so much more clear now.

to an atheist you are forcing them to admit that there is a God. That is the govt supporting religion.

I'll make it very clear again. I have not called anyone any names. I have not said that people cannot worship anyway they want. All I am saying is that public schools should not make children say "under God" it is wrong.


As far as any theory being taught in class were do you draw the line. Can I walk in and drop of my theory of how the universe started and have it taught in class? If I get many people to sign a petition that says the universe was started by the flying spaghetti monster then do I get to have that taught in class? Or should science actually just be left to science, and people that have interesting theories can teach those theories to there own kids?

Again the seperation side has made it abundently clear that no one can stop anyone from saying a quiet prayer inside their own head. No one cares.

What does matter is when you make a 6 year old child of atheist say "under God" when in his world it is the same as pledging to the tooth fairy or easter bunny or any other made up creature.

Yeah the brave 6 year old standing silently by trying to change the power structure of the nation for the better.


(that was dripping with sarcasim if you didn't pick up on it)

Sorry butters but your "science" is off. Your God had to have a maker. Since buildings don't just come into existence either did your god. Your god was made by my God Zeus. What is important to realize is that since Zeus is the one true God you better make sure you worship him. Your God was his first creation and he wasn't so good at making things then. Zeus is a God that can admit his mistakes though and he says sorry and he gave all woman a second breast to make up for it.
Anyway I digress, you won't get a second chance at this so you might as well just cover yourself and worship Zeus.

Zeus Out

I can give you an easy example of where I was forced to pray. As a first grader I had to say the pledge of aligence and in there it say's "under god". Do you think a six year old has the ability to stand up to all of that power structure?

Well I thought it was right up my ally so I recorded it and sent it over to Abra. I hope he is still around to get it.

I would think you would be much better off just being thankful for what God has already given you. We live in the richest most powerful country in the world at a time when you can put a whole orchestra in your pocket. Carry around a prefect representation of anyone you love, and be in contact almost instantly with anyone you want.

What more are you asking for?

I don't think any of here points are valid. She is just plain crazy. However freedom of speech covers a lot. I don't know that I would ever give up on that freedom.

What a nut case. She talks about things like higher suicide rate which in reality it is caused by people like her.

Its the day Jesus laid the Eggs and then had to make them many colors so that the Romans would not want to take the eggs away and he could still feed all the people that were listening to his sermon even though there were only so many eggs yet many many people. And when they people opened the eggs and ate they were filled with chocolate. A real miracle cause chocolate was not to make it to that side of the ocean until the 1500's.
Then the people came up to him and said most people give the Good eggs first and then when everyone is sick of them they give the bad ones. You oh master have given the very best eggs ever, truly you are a miracle worker. Just then a rabbit came out of the dessert and took the last egg. Jesus said from now on on this day you shall call it easter and let Chocolate Eggs and Rabbits remind you of me.

We are not talking about someone quietly saying a prayer in their own head. Any one can do that any time. There is no way for anyone to know what you are doing why you sit quietly at your desk. No one is saying that kids should be stopped from praying.

What we are saying is that anytime prayer is backed by the school in any way then it is an establishment of religion that kids that do not believe in praying should not have to go through. No one should be forced to do these things by the state.

Anyone at anytime can say a prayer quietly in their head and no one will ever know.

Atheist's don't believe in praying. So Gov't backed praying is 100% establishing religion. Atheists do not want to deal with ridiculous Voo Doo and incantations. They just want their kids to have a real actual education free of ridiculous myths.

We can call you the Genius from Georgia.


Im with you all the way, and I couldn't say it any better.

That is very funny. You can't imagine how much I pondered that picture.

Wow these are amazing. The thumbnail really doesn't do them justice. When you see the big picture it really is something. You have quite the talent. I have always wondered about the picture you use here on JSH is that a painting you did of your self?