The only thing Satan can do atm is "tempt" someone(s), nothing more.

1.THE BEGINING WAS 6000 YEARS AGO. Genesis 1:1 "In the begining God created the heavens and the earth" I ve always talked about God being a self-existent and ageless being. He is the creator of living things, planets, universe etc. Now, this verse has always been misunderstood. Its just talking about the original creation of the universe billions of years ago. 2. THE EARTH WAS CREATED 6000 YEARS AGO. Genesis 1:1-2 1."In the begining God created the heavens and the earth.2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". My God! Christians have been mocked with the 'earth is 6000 years old' thing and its embarrassing. People get these two verses mixed up. Periods of Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 is talking about the period of restoration of earth and recreation of natural forms in it. A lot happened between these two periods which will be addressed in another thread.

Why wouldn't it happen in real life? Americans waging war on different nations or any other nation or people waging war on another has absolutely nothing to do with what God has told us and what it means to be a "Christian". Being a "Christian" is not just a title, it's a lifestyle. It's one that lives after Jesus "Christ", thus we have "Christ"ian and the instructions he gave us.

Goes with the saying actions speak louder then words. People can claim to be Christian or other all day long if they wish. But through their actions it'll truly show who they are, what they are.

Are we talking about "Christians"? Or we talking about people that say they are Christian? Because the Christ I know has told the following.

Matthew 5:39

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

..Dennis Miller's classic Mideast rant

"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service
to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of
the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.
Don't thank me.I'm a giver. Here we go:
The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about
that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word.
Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan,"
"Palestinian"sounds ancient but is really a modern invention.
Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and
there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by
Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took
over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you
know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond
with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any
more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths
until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them
what they are: "Other Arabs Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather
Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And
Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.
How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."
Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one
more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time
in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if
you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage
trucks and
Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some
way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other
Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course-that's where the real
fun is-but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to
destroy Israel-or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it-for
the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert
the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the
blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's
Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's
really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic
about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm
missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since
Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.
Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five
million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and
Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these
same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches,
everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what
about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant
din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea?
Oh, that? We were just kidding.
My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse
the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I
was stunned at the simple brilliance of it.

Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite
to themselves? Of course not. Or marshalling every fiber and force at
their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab state into the
sea? Nonsense.

Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible.
Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their
bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews
would ever do to people is debate them to death.
Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with
vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our
interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as
possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a
roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.
However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing
moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11 our president
told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the
countries that supported them. Beautiful.

Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of
an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same
thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.
If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would
all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done
with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the
Jordan. (Hey, wait a minute, that's actually not such a bad id . . . uh,
that is, what a horrible thought, yeah, horrible.)"

any relationship in the end will work as long as both have the same desire for the other, but we've been warned -

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

True, tithes are not "donations" to the church, they are donations to those people that need the money. Not the facility of the church itself, but for the one's that come to the church for help.



First thing, how do you know this? Are you present when all these churches around the world spend their money? Secondly, what's it actually matter? How is it any of your choice/opinion, ect on where your donation is sent? If your/the church is not donating properly and or not donating, or whatever may be the case, first thing I'm sorry to hear this. But it will be them that has to face it come judgement time rather then just giving say $5.



Very true, that's why pentecostal/7th day adventist celebrate sabbath on Saturday/go to church Saturday. Goes a bit off topic, but I don't believe any singular denomination has it right, but they all do in their own various ways. Wish they would come together and discuss. As baptists speak strongly bout Jesus being God in comparison to other denominations. And 7th day and pentecostal celebrate sabbather Saturday, ect ect.



And they will have their reward from the Lord my friend :).

But all in all, "donations" to a church should be going to help other's in need, people that go to the church for help, random acts of kindness from people they see in need, ect. If your church doesn't do that, I'm sorry to hear. But those donations to the church from the congregation every Sunday is suppose to be going towards what the church is about and of course to pay the monthly bills for the church water,power, ect. And that is exactly what the church is about, it's not just a place to "visit" on Sunday to hear some kind of sermon. It's only by culture it has become that way.

And it's never the fruits of the "church". It's always the fruits of the Lord, as the church is suppose to do as Christ has told. Therefore any instruction, direction, or action done by the church is only told to be done by Jesus himself.

RegularFeller Stated >>> I can say with 100% certainty that none of this is remotely relevant to any question I posed

Fred7170 stated >>>
You ask questions that require more than simple answers on a Forum, you take people to task on a subject not easily understood or explained, you pretend wanting to know in order to debate a question that has already been answered more then 5,000 years ago (namely: Does God exists) and then expect any Christian to answer to your full satisfaction while knowing full well that you won't budge from your position after hours and hours of senseless debate and that is less than genuine of you and you know it.
You want answers to your questions? Read the Bible, it's all in there. The answers have been right under man's nose for centuries but fallen-Man prefers to debate and doubt, argue and demonstrate instead of opening his little mind.

RegularFeller stated >>>
Well, yes, Fred, I am calling people to task. And if the answer cannot be supplied in the arena of "a simple forum", then why pose the question or make the claim in a "simple forum?

Is this religious discussion or is it a "everybody agree with me and we'll all clap our hands and smile and act superior to others" soap boxing?

Furthermore, I hadn't questioned the existence of a GOD, I questioned the validity of the handwritten, copied, edited, redacted, and interpreted book being a verbatim record of words spoken by GOD to a scribe. The same GOD, by the way, was able to make a written account of his "commands" without aid of a surrogate writer - TWICE! And my query was why that same GOD, who can read and write although the vast majority of his creation could not, didn't either 1 - write the bible or 2 - just put the information in the psyche of the brain that the GOD created and designed to have free will. And that in itself is a paradox. Why would you give an animal free will then write a code of conduct that strictly outlines it's expected behavior and punishments for failure to comply?

Almost forgot, if the question of GOD existence had been answered 5000 years ago, why would someone feel the need to supply "PROOF" today?

Perhaps you, not knowing my mind, fail to understand that perhaps it isn't a disbelief in GOD but a belief that the "word of GOD" has been adulterated or invented by men in order to reign and tax people.

I've read the bible many times and read the hand of man every time. And the only thing more full of doublespeak and contradiction is a vehement response supplied by a "believer" (who is a Fallen-Man and small minded just like me ). Whether through misunderstanding or contrivance, you are confusing the doubt of the authenticity of the bible with atheism.

It is an artifice.

We are all born with an innate sense of compassion and right and wrong. Therein lies our "GOD" programming. Simple enough answer to my own question.

We don't need to follow some stringent set of rules and give the "church" the fruits of our labor, our goods, or our money...what would the creator of all need with cash and a bag of onions?? Men want cash, even wrote some junk about love of money being the root of evil to get people to hand it over to them.

My "disingenuous aims" are no less or greater than yours. Would you change your mind after hours of debate? I know the answer to that - NO. Then why should you expect me to? Because you have arbitrarily predetermined that you are right?

Come on, man!