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Community > Posts By > daniel48706
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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I'll provide the wood and fuel for the fire
 Soon we will be saying the pledge like this I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under Obama, indivisible, with higher taxes and no rights for all.  No it's not photshoped. You can get one on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390080162883 hahaha I love it! Good one!! I don't hear too many objections that one yet. Now that's a flag I would burn.  Here's an objection. I don't support that flag nor do I support the paranoia behind it. I personaly see no paranoia behind it. But I'd be willing to place bets that you will see some flying that flag. That would be their choice to fly it, right? No one is forcing anyone to do so. I never said anything about being forced to do it. Yay, an objection  Paranoia? Naw, just wide awake as to what is happening within America's borders. but I'd still like to burn that flag and wave the one that represents America Yep TJN, didn't see where you quoted it being forced either.  You'd properly dispose of this flag, by burning it? Interesting Yes, personally no president's face should be on the American flag, just the red, white and blue. It's desecrating the flag and I personally feel it's wrong. Yes, I would burn it, hell, I'd have a bon fire with friends and chug a few brewskies too. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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Then you have the right to go someplace else if you so choose to do so, don't you?
And I am sorry, but religion is NOT a personal matter. It is very much a group and society matter (society does not mean everyone living there or even a majority). I believe the person specifically stated that those who wish to pray would NOT make those who did nto wish to participate. So I ask you, what right do you, I or anyone else havbe to tell three students who believe in God and prayer, that they can not form a little group and pray together, so long as they are not trying to force their belief on someone else? And dont give me the bull pucky that it still forces others to watch it and achnowledge it, because by not joining in with the prayer, or by not allwoing the freedom for others TO pray, you are forcing your belief standard upon those who do nt agree with you. Pledging allegiance would have been able to stay in the schools had it not been for the unfounded fear of communists....lol That is funny to me. Ironically, the original pledge stance looked like the Nazi salute, but that too was changed to make it "more American".   be seeing you Back to the nazi salute? probably back to no God,, judging from the current culture. I think it should be elective, I always have thought it should be. However, I dont see how saying it hurts anyone. Its like a prayer, I dont think schools should impose upon children that they have to pray but I dont think it right to disallow those who want to to do so when it doesnt hurt anyone. People can pray silently at any time of day or to themselves quietly at any time of day. There is no need to have to do it in a group that involves those who do not believe in that god. Indoctrination of religion should not be allowed. Noone said they couldn't, just keep it to themselves. Religion is personal. As someone said on here maybe if I am too close to you when you pray my god may feel I am worshiping a false god because your god is not my god. So I don't want anything to do with your worshiping because my god may strike me down for being there when it happens. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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potato, potaato
 But for the sake of argument, let me rewrite and say that if you do not like it if people are praying in a specific place or area, then you have the right to go to a different locale, if you so choose, just as those people who are praying have the right to pray where they are at if they so choose to do so. lol, I am glad someone took this question up Fran, and am very happy to say that not once did I dictate that anyone "move, or relocate". What I said is if they do not like the fact that my friends and i are having a group prayer, and they do not want to listen in on it, then they CAN move to another locale while we have our group prayer; not that they HAVE to. Your wording my point is, to harm someone, you have to somehow HURT them, and it does not hurt anyone in any way, to stand by and let several students say a prayer together. If you don't agree wit the prayer, or the thoughts behind it, go somewhere else while it is being said. reread your post - go somewhere else - is not providing a choice it's telling someone to move. Oprahlike enough for you  |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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btw, Fran please forgive me, but your new photo is fabulous! I hope you don't mind my saying so, but when I first saw it, I immediately thought of Oprah
 
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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lol, I am glad someone took this question up Fran, and am very happy to say that not once did I dictate that anyone "move, or relocate". What I said is if they do not like the fact that my friends and i are having a group prayer, and they do not want to listen in on it, then they CAN move to another locale while we have our group prayer; not that they HAVE to. Is it ok for those who do believe to tell those who don't how to live? By the way, I don't see how those who don't believe are telling those who do believe how to live. No one is telling anyone they can't pray or anything like that. Some would just like to see religion kept out of public school. I don't see an issue with that. By telling someone that they can not pray where they want to, and with whom they want to, yes you are dictating how they pray. Again, if you, me and three there people want to form a small circle before lunch and pray together, giving thanks for the bountiful food, and the many gifts bestowed upon us, how does that harm anyone else? and to clarify the definition of the term harm: Noun 1. harm - any physical damage to the body caused by violence or accident or fracture etc. 2. harm - the occurrence of a change for the worse 3. harm - the act of damaging something or someone Verb 1. harm - cause or do harm to; "These pills won't harm your system" more examples may be found at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/harm my point is, to harm someone, you have to somehow HURT them, and it does not hurt anyone in any way, to stand by and let several students say a prayer together. If you don't agree wit the prayer, or the thoughts behind it, go somewhere else while it is being said. you just HURT my feelings - Just another point, why don't you and your 3 friends do what makes you happy, pray, do jumping jacks, play freeze tag, but please stop when you want to dictate another person or group move, relocate because they don't believe as you. (not personal, just following your post) |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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I have heard the same thing, and not just with President Roosevelt, but others as well. There have also been Presidents who have outright refused to place their hands on the bible.
No, neither when swearing into public office, nor when in court and being sworn in, are you REQUIRED to put your hand on a bible. You ARE required to raise your hand in the air, which is only a symbolism of you showing who you are as you make the pledge, or oath. I really don't know this, but does the US president still has to put his hand on the Bible when he is sworn into presidency, and also , when there is a trial in a court, they have to put their hands on the Bible also? Only including using the Bible/a Bible is a personal choice, Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when he was sworn into office. Believe there wasn't one around and he improvised using a diff book. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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EXACTLY, EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!
I think the seperation of church and state is conatantly misinterpreted and misused. It is my understanding that the purpose of the concept was that the government cannot and should not IMPOSE religion upon others. It is a safeguard against persecution of other religions by a government that imposes, or only backs up one over the others. I dont think it was ever intended to mean government shun ANY and all religion or require its citizens and schools to. I think this is a very closed minded interpretation of seperation of church and state that does just the opposite of what the intent was. Seperation of church and state was about allowing ALL people to have their beliefs WITHOUT persecution or ridicule, not about shutting faith out altogether. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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Is it ok for those who do believe to tell those who don't how to live? By the way, I don't see how those who don't believe are telling those who do believe how to live. No one is telling anyone they can't pray or anything like that. Some would just like to see religion kept out of public school. I don't see an issue with that. By telling someone that they can not pray where they want to, and with whom they want to, yes you are dictating how they pray. Again, if you, me and three there people want to form a small circle before lunch and pray together, giving thanks for the bountiful food, and the many gifts bestowed upon us, how does that harm anyone else? and to clarify the definition of the term harm: Noun 1. harm - any physical damage to the body caused by violence or accident or fracture etc. 2. harm - the occurrence of a change for the worse 3. harm - the act of damaging something or someone Verb 1. harm - cause or do harm to; "These pills won't harm your system" more examples may be found at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/harm my point is, to harm someone, you have to somehow HURT them, and it does not hurt anyone in any way, to stand by and let several students say a prayer together. If you don't agree wit the prayer, or the thoughts behind it, go somewhere else while it is being said. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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I dont think freedom of speech is specific to what people want to hear. That is akin to censorship because someone within hearing range may not like it. ITs not as if kids dont have the will to not pay attention to what they dont want to hear, if they didnt, they would be doing alot better in school. We hear alot of things in life we may not feel like listening to and in most cases, we would then just tune it out not deny the person a right to say it. Very well put MsHarmony. Way too many people are quick to say, you dont have the right to "force me to listen" when in reality no one is forcing anyone to listen, or participate. And the flipside is true also. those who do not wish to believe or participate do not have the right to deny others their right to do so. If you don't like it, don't listen. That simple. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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No, neither when swearing into public office, nor when in court and being sworn in, are you REQUIRED to put your hand on a bible. You ARE required to raise your hand in the air, which is only a symbolism of you showing who you are as you make the pledge, or oath.
I really don't know this, but does the US president still has to put his hand on the Bible when he is sworn into presidency, and also , when there is a trial in a court, they have to put their hands on the Bible also? |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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If you think about it Dragoness, 90% of all religions, if not higher, all believe that they are the one true religion. SO please do not single Christianity out like that, suggesting that they are the only ones who feel this way.
 If communists cant believe in God,then how can BHO be a secret muslim and a communist at the same time? I think Atlantis and I established you can be communist and have one religion, it was done in communist nations. They only allowed one though. So if Christians believe they are the only one true religion do they believe like Communists on that one? Makes ya think........ |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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remember MsHarmony, the cloth does not represent God HIMSELF, it represents the United States. And by agreeing to support the Nation, yuo are not failing to support God or Christ.
Remember also, that when the Apostles came to Christ and asked him wha to do with Romes Taxes, Christ specifically stated [color]Give unto Caesar, that which is Caesars. He goes on to tell the apostles that they also have to follow the laws of the country they live in (so long as they do not go against God Himself). By pledging your allegiance to the Flag of the United States, you are simply agreeing to stand up for your nation as one of its proud members and citizens. You are not declaring anything against God or Christ. I can accept someone not saying the "under God" part but I can't imagine anyone not wanting to pledge allegiance to the flag of our nation remembering that the flag represents the FIRST nation on earth that allowed its own citizens to rule. The first nation on earth to grant absolute freedom and self determination to its people and represents pure liberty and feedom. even the freedom to burn the flag itself its the principles to pledge to not just a brightly colored rag hangin on a pole I guess it is an individual thing. I am torn as well because as a christian I can see it being a false idol (a piece of cloth) but as a real time citizen, I also understand the symbolism behind it. I grew up choosing not to say it but I respect those who do and I totally see the motivation for it and respect that too. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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I believe the person specifically stated that those who wish to pray would NOT make those who did nto wish to participate. So I ask you, what right do you, I or anyone else havbe to tell three students who believe in God and prayer, that they can not form a little group and pray together, so long as they are not trying to force their belief on someone else? And dont give me the bull pucky that it still forces others to watch it and achnowledge it, because by not joining in with the prayer, or by not allwoing the freedom for others TO pray, you are forcing your belief standard upon those who do nt agree with you.
Pledging allegiance would have been able to stay in the schools had it not been for the unfounded fear of communists....lol That is funny to me. Ironically, the original pledge stance looked like the Nazi salute, but that too was changed to make it "more American". be seeing you Back to the nazi salute? probably back to no God,, judging from the current culture. I think it should be elective, I always have thought it should be. However, I dont see how saying it hurts anyone. Its like a prayer, I dont think schools should impose upon children that they have to pray but I dont think it right to disallow those who want to to do so when it doesnt hurt anyone. People can pray silently at any time of day or to themselves quietly at any time of day. There is no need to have to do it in a group that involves those who do not believe in that god. Indoctrination of religion should not be allowed. |
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Topic:
Pledge of Allegience
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Very well put lula.
People stand up and claim that they want the homes to teach kids the personal values, beliefs and morals etc, and that the school should be more for teaching societal rules, and beliefs etc. A big problem erupts though in circumstances as the pledge of allegiance (as one example). The pledge is supposed to stand for American citizenry standing together as a Nation, Hence "one Nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all". As far as separation of Church and State, I think it is a big joke, because if you look back on history, the state and church have NEVER been separated. But getting back to the pledge of allegiance, let's dissect it here. "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America" This clearly and without question is simply someone standing up and stating that they will follow the guidelines of the United States, represented by it's flag. "and to the Republic, for which it stands" Right here is a reiteration of the same thing; that we as American citizens will follow the guidelines of the United States of America (the Republic). "one Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and justice for all This line right here defines, what the Republic is: one nation, under God; it does not claim which God, or which religion, just says under God. It goes on to say that the country is indivisible which means that we will not be divided against each other by a common enemy (Russia and Communism in the 50's); and in the end it says that the Republic stands for liberty and justice for all. So, reiterated, the pledge of allegiance to me, says: "I, Daniel L. Starrett, agree that I am an American citizen, and that as such, I will support the United States of America, and follow all of it's laws and regulations. The United states is only one Nation in which I could be a member, yet it's citizen's stand together in times of peril, and can not be divided amongst each other. In the end, we all fall under one God, whomever that God may or may not be, and believe with our whole hearts that every man, woman and child alive today has the right to liberty and justice, no matter what." So, looking at it from this point of view, no I do not have a single problem with it being said in the schools. It does not teach or say anything at all based off of any specific religious belief. It does not call our boys and girls to arms, or indoctrinate them into a certain belief system other than to support their country, which I am sorry, but as a citizen of ANY Country you should be willing to support that Country no matter what (Note I say Country and not politics). Should our children be forced to say this pledge? No; by it's very own words, "liberty for all", to force someone to say it would be to take their liberty, or freedom, away. HOWEVER, on the reverse side, to force others to NOT be able to say it also removes their liberty to do so. And as such, it all boils down to one phrase: Live and let live. My boys saying it does not harm your bys and girls who choose not to say it; and your children choosing to not say it is not going to harm my boys in their wanting to say it. My girls say it in school every day! Yay! I have no problem saying and I also don't have a problem for those who don't wish to say it. To each his own. suspend a straight-A child for such? really? i think not! i flat-out refused to have her punished. i refused to say it even in kindergarten. Good for you and for your daughter. I don't understand the rationality behind saying the pledge at all. Anyone know why it's even nessessary? there are those that get all riled up that schools are doing an obama dance and song...and yet, to me, the pledge is along the same lines. If it was mandatory and children were being FORCED to say it, then yes. It's not though, well at least in some schools. haha comparing the obama song to the American flag is laughable. Oh well guys, another brick wall post, we just won't agree or change each other's minds.  Great Country to have these freedoms of speech.  lol, they aren't the same...but they both have the feel of indoctrination, sort of. sort of like we're getting the kids used to something at an early age, whether that be supporting the flag or supporting obama. we do the same thing when we take our kids to church or to a meal...we get them used to how we want them to be when they grow up. when it's us as parents doing it, it's raising the kids. when it's the school doing it...there's more wondering about the reasons. and it doesn't have to be a brick wall that we disagree. this is a place for many views to have an open discussion and share different viewpoints. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKWApOAG2g
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Topic:
Self Accountability
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it's not automatic as you suggest here. Yes I as a Christian, can go out, rape fifty women, kill all their children and have the men of the familes mentioned tied up to watch all fo this, then ask for forgiveness from God.
However, God is not going to give me that forgiveness, unless I am truly repentant, and sorrowful for what I did. That is something that a majority of Christians, imo, have forgotten; Forgiveness is not automatic. Forgiveness is something you have to be truly repentant and sorrowful for in order to achieve. And just because you are truly repentant, and sorrowful, and HAVE received forgiveness does not mean that you are not going to still be punished in the here and now. There was a time when people believed in heaven and hell, where there was no doubt as to the preferred destination. The real point to life was essentially to build a stairway to paradise, which does not mean that people behaved perfectly. The world was still a very cruel place. People believed in a judgement at some point in the after...life. Now it appears that fewer people believe in this life after death, thus a lowering of the standards for interactive/intercoursive responsibility. The essayist George Orwell although an avowed atheist believed that this disbelief was the greatest cause of the breakdown of moral and social behaviour. The loss of a belief effected a loss of personal responsibility. I disagree. The religious have the greatest scapegoat of all. Satan is the fault of all evil they or any other human does. How can they be in control of themselves if they believe they are pawns to the two entities playing them like chess peices? This is not about a belief in heaven and hell. If you had really read what I wrote you would have seen that it is about a belief in what comes after life and how one responds to that belief in this life. But the religious can do what they want to do in the name of "'the devil made me do it" and ask for forgiveness and will still enter the kingdom of heaven, correct? |
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Topic:
Self Accountability
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lol, nice try Dragoness, and I give you points for trying with this one, but what you just described is a ready made excuse for those unwilling to accept personal responsibility.
Yes God tempts us to be good, by promising an afterlife of "heavenly peace". Yes the Devil (Satan, Lucifer, Charles Manson) tempts us towards the evil side, or eternal damnation; but in the end it is still the personal choices made by us, that resolve what will happen or not happen. Thus it is our own responsibility that comes into play. For example, I could say that I went to the bar, got totally drunk out of my gourd and slept with three prostitutes all because Satan talked me into it, by leading my wife into another man's arms, thus making me depressed. Then I see others drowning their sorrows, so I mimich them, and because sex is so pleasurable, Satan is easily capable of fooling my drunken mind into thinking that sleeping with three prostitutes will make me feel better in the end. But in the end, it is my personal responsibility to choose the correct path to follow, and make the responsible decisions. Satan does not come in, and take over my body, mind and soul and walk me around like a puppet on a string. When I do something wrong, it is because I chose to do so. There was a time when people believed in heaven and hell, where there was no doubt as to the preferred destination. The real point to life was essentially to build a stairway to paradise, which does not mean that people behaved perfectly. The world was still a very cruel place. People believed in a judgement at some point in the after...life. Now it appears that fewer people believe in this life after death, thus a lowering of the standards for interactive/intercoursive responsibility. The essayist George Orwell although an avowed atheist believed that this disbelief was the greatest cause of the breakdown of moral and social behaviour. The loss of a belief effected a loss of personal responsibility. I disagree. The religious have the greatest scapegoat of all. Satan is the fault of all evil they or any other human does. How can they be in control of themselves if they believe they are pawns to the two entities playing them like chess peices? |
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Topic:
What's for dinner?
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omg I like turnips better than I do potato's lol. Little too much garic in them but not too bad.
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Topic:
What's for dinner?
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Thank you monkey, I love italian food as well, and now I am running to see if the meatloaf is done lol
It's Sunday!! Lasagna Chicken parm Antipasto Garlic knots Chanti Biscotti and coffee Oh now, you just stop it. Don't you know Italian is my fav food. Cripe, now I'm hungry again. |
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Topic:
What's for dinner?
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well, the timer just beeped for me to check the meatloaf, so it shouldn't be too long. Your welcome over any time before 10pm Eastern Standard time
I am making my world famous (or at least famous across two continents lol) meatloaf, along with trying turnips for the first time, and mixed peas and carrots for the veggie. I love turnips! Raw with veggie dip or mashed....yum! Meatloaf sounds great too. What time is dinner? |
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