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| Topic: Free will or 'Gods' will ? | |
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it IS both
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If I choose to interview for a position which I am qualified for, but another prays and lands that position as a result of 'God' making it happen, somehow... Then how would the person doing the hiring have any free will? 'God' made that decision, by definition, if 'God' answered the prayer... Which is it... they have the free will because it's still their coice of who to hire. you see if they choose the right person and are in God's will, i believe that everything will work out for the good of everyone. but the employer still has the decision to make...he could make the wrong choice by not asking for God's direction and get the person that wasn't meant to get the job per say, and then i believe that it wouldn't benefit the company and you'll have more problems with that person. but you know God takes little situations and curcumstances like those and works them out for the good for His children who love Him. but all in all God is in control. 
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lilith:
I suppose you are asking if there is fatalism, and if our ability to choose is more a fallacy... a smoke screen for us to think we have free will. Uh... not exactly...  I am asking if 'Gods' will would negate man's free will to choose, in the scenario provided. The definition of free will is indeed subjective to one's belief in the concept. I absolutely agree with the notion that all have an ability to choose from that which is recognized as a possibility for choice. If that is free will, then I would not disagree in that definition in the least. I always thought there was a difference between free will and choice... If they are the same thing, then why is the free will term even used? Ahhh s1ow: Words of wisdom... 'God's' will was to allow man to decide for him/herself what to do in any given situation... 'God's' will was for man to make all of the decisions then? |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Thu 03/27/08 08:44 AM
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God's will for my life was predestined to begin in the affirmation of Christ in my heart, not as an inherent will from inception.
Free will is in the fielding of choices given us to nourish our hearts in God's love, and the yearning to discover rest when discernment yields the satiation of hunger and thirst for righteousness within. Both are present and both are viable and are interdependent and finding congruence and contentment in the heart, or, soul of a born again Christian. This my own view on the matter.   |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Thu 03/27/08 08:55 AM
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In an example which contains 'God' answering a prayer that determines one's choice in a matter, how can that choice be considered of one's free will...
It is not free from 'Gods' influence if 'God' answered the prayer by somehow determining the outcome. Unless they are one in the same... Is this not a valid and reasonable question? Truly, I am not here to argue this... I feel much to meek to put up a bold front... Hence, I am trying to show that in my wording...
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Could someone explain this example in a way that makes more sense to me?
What am I missing here? What factor is being left out which would clarify it all? |
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...and yet you have argued or tried to contradict nearly every point /comment made here. |
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God's will is unchangeable. our free will gives us the choice to follow God's will or not. |
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In an example which contains 'God' answering a prayer that determines one's choice in a matter, how can that choice be considered of one's free will... It is not free from 'Gods' influence if 'God' answered the prayer by somehow determining the outcome. Unless they are one in the same... Is this not a valid and reasonable question? Truly, I am not here to argue this... I feel much to meek to put up a bold front... Hence, I am trying to show that in my wording... CS It is written that Jesus said that if we have the least faith to believe that a mountain will be cast into the sea at our word then it shall be. Thus, I find His words to mean that if God speaks to me to say that, then it will occur, but if I speak that out of my imagination, it will not occur. I say that in light of my own experience in my relationship with God in Christ through the Holy Spirit. My understanding of the saying, "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God", is that I must hear God speak to me to have faith that it is God speaking to me. As Jesus taught, that which the Father willed, so did he do. So, if the Father wills it to happen and speaks it, then affirmation by the tongue of man hearing or seeing such things from God, such should manifest. And for manifestation to occur, there must also be agreement for manifestation to occur. There must be a purpose for such an intervention by God. It must serve God's purpose and not forward vanity. Making requests known to God, in the name of Jesus, brings Jesus to bear in the prayer and there is the agreement should manifestation occur. It is such as Jesus offered us to make known to God secretly, that we may be blessed openly. To His glory, for His name's sake, before the Father(the Creator). Prayers of agreement also bear this distinction to the Christians that pray together, that their answer may be from God and not man. That the Christian witness be of God and not man. Gifts elicit thanksgiving. Nothing vain in that.
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Could someone explain this example in a way that makes more sense to me? What am I missing here? What factor is being left out which would clarify it all? What factor? Faith. (zap runs for cover) |
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Free will or 'Gods' will ?
you forgot one...no will |
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tinabelle:
I appreciate all who responded to this post, but I have still not witnessed anyone directly addressing the example provided. ...and yet you have argued or tried to contradict nearly every point /comment made here That comment is false and unable to be substantiated... This response is the only blatent contradiction I have voiced according to another's post. Yours. If you could be so kind as to quote my words in this thread should you see it differently. Perhaps I can then comprehend why you have said such a thing. I proposed a perfectly valid and reasonable scenario, for consideration, which realistically happens every day. I asked for another to explain how both, 'Gods' will and free will can exist simultaneously within the given scenario. Most have offered descriptions and/or definitions outside of the example provided, which do not answer the question, according to the example provided... How does the person who makes the decision of who to hire have free will to make such a decision if the decision was affected by 'Gods' will according to another's prayers? It logically seems that 'Gods' will supercedes one's free will at times like these, wouldn't you say? |
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Free will or 'Gods' will ? you forgot one...no will You have still made a choice of your own free will. |
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If I choose to interview for a position which I am qualified for, but another prays and lands that position as a result of 'God' making it happen, somehow... Then how would the person doing the hiring have any free will? 'God' made that decision, by definition, if 'God' answered the prayer... Which is it... Okay, free will is the ability to choose. So you interview and a God fearing Christian interviews. The Christian gets the job and thanks God. The reason for him getting the job could be one of many... 1) Perhaps the Christian was the best qualified candidate. 2) Perhaps the Christian made the best impression. 3) Perhaps the Christian is friends with someone doing the hiring. 4) Perhaps the person doing the hiring is attracted to the Christian. 5) Perhaps the person doing the hiring is also a Christian. 6) Perhaps God made the Christian seem to be a more attractive candidate. If number 6 was true, that would be influencing the decision, but it wouldn't be taking away from free will. I know that you probably have your own fake definition of "Free Will", but I won't argue that. I'm not going to waste my time. If you have the ability to choose, then you have free will. If I put a gun to your head and said "Give me all of your money or I'll kill you", you STILL HAVE FREE WILL. In that case, you are being strongly influenced to give me your money, but you can choose to not give me your money. The end result is that a Christian who thanks God for him getting a job is doing the right thing. 1) Christians believe that God created the universe...Without the universe, there would be no place to work at all and no stuff to buy even if you did work somewhere. 2) Christians believe that God gives us life. If you have a really great job, but you are dead, then you don't have a really great job, do you? 3) Christians believe that God's sovereignty means that God owns everything. Therefore, whenever a Christian gets something...even something he/she has worked very hard for...it's a gift from God. Christians are told to be "good stewards" of those things God gives us. That includes our bodies, our houses, our cars, our furniture, our kids and (yes) our jobs. |
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If I choose to interview for a position which I am qualified for, but another prays and lands that position as a result of 'God' making it happen, somehow... Then how would the person doing the hiring have any free will? 'God' made that decision, by definition, if 'God' answered the prayer... Which is it... Okay, free will is the ability to choose. So you interview and a God fearing Christian interviews. The Christian gets the job and thanks God. The reason for him getting the job could be one of many... 1) Perhaps the Christian was the best qualified candidate. 2) Perhaps the Christian made the best impression. 3) Perhaps the Christian is friends with someone doing the hiring. 4) Perhaps the person doing the hiring is attracted to the Christian. 5) Perhaps the person doing the hiring is also a Christian. 6) Perhaps God made the Christian seem to be a more attractive candidate. If number 6 was true, that would be influencing the decision, but it wouldn't be taking away from free will. I know that you probably have your own fake definition of "Free Will", but I won't argue that. I'm not going to waste my time. If you have the ability to choose, then you have free will. If I put a gun to your head and said "Give me all of your money or I'll kill you", you STILL HAVE FREE WILL. In that case, you are being strongly influenced to give me your money, but you can choose to not give me your money. The end result is that a Christian who thanks God for him getting a job is doing the right thing. 1) Christians believe that God created the universe...Without the universe, there would be no place to work at all and no stuff to buy even if you did work somewhere. 2) Christians believe that God gives us life. If you have a really great job, but you are dead, then you don't have a really great job, do you? 3) Christians believe that God's sovereignty means that God owns everything. Therefore, whenever a Christian gets something...even something he/she has worked very hard for...it's a gift from God. Christians are told to be "good stewards" of those things God gives us. That includes our bodies, our houses, our cars, our furniture, our kids and (yes) our jobs. |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Thu 03/27/08 09:48 AM
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perhaps christianity shouldn't play a role in interviews Religion shouldn't play a role, but it sometimes does. I didn't say it would be RIGHT for someone to get a job because he/she is a Christian, I just said it was a possiblity. |
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It is illogical to think that there is god's will and free will. God's will is all encompassing in a religious person's life. If something happens it is god's will, bad or good. That is how religion works, you submit to it/his/her will.
Those that say we have free will even in religious situations are not being accurate because if god is all powerful then all is his will, those who do not choose to follow him is still his will, those who do not follow him correctly is still his will, etc.... It is either one or the other, not both. It is gods world or it isn't, there is no gray there. Creative
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It is illogical to think that there is god's will and free will. God's will is all encompassing in a religious person's life. If something happens it is god's will, bad or good. That is how religion works, you submit to it/his/her will. Those that say we have free will even in religious situations are not being accurate because if god is all powerful then all is his will, those who do not choose to follow him is still his will, those who do not follow him correctly is still his will, etc.... It is either one or the other, not both. It is gods world or it isn't, there is no gray there. Creative Nice try, but wrong. It could be God's will for you to have free will. In fact...that's shown in the Bible. An action verb such as "hardened" in "God hardened Pharaoh's heart"...can mean (and does in that verse) "ALLOWED to be hardened". In other words, God allows us to have free will. God could force us to serve his will, but he instead allows us to have free will. It is God's will that we have free will. So maybe God wants you to worship him, but it's God's highest will (the thing God desires most) that you have free will. |
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spider:
Way cool avatar... Starry night, none-the-less... You have caught me at a weaker moment my friend... Your post is relevant, it seems and almost makes sense... I have some questions though, regarding the situation in the example... The job was obtained by 'God' answering a prayer... This does not have anything to do with the religious affiliation of the person supposedly making the decision... The ability to choose... What then was free about that choice??? If 'God' made it happen, how could the person even have made a different choice? Therefore in all reality, the person had no other choice... 'God' made it for him... somehow... someway... Good to see you, spider...
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It is illogical to think that there is god's will and free will. God's will is all encompassing in a religious person's life. If something happens it is god's will, bad or good. That is how religion works, you submit to it/his/her will. Those that say we have free will even in religious situations are not being accurate because if god is all powerful then all is his will, those who do not choose to follow him is still his will, those who do not follow him correctly is still his will, etc.... It is either one or the other, not both. It is gods world or it isn't, there is no gray there. Creative Nice try, but wrong. It could be God's will for you to have free will. In fact...that's shown in the Bible. An action verb such as "hardened" in "God hardened Pharaoh's heart"...can mean (and does in that verse) "ALLOWED to be hardened". In other words, God allows us to have free will. God could force us to serve his will, but he instead allows us to have free will. It is God's will that we have free will. So maybe God wants you to worship him, but it's God's highest will (the thing God desires most) that you have free will. None of that proves me wrong but nice try
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