Dear Abra,

I believe that is what scientists thus far have come up with. You are absolutely right about the four elements. I actually highlight your replies and paste them to my words profile as of others like funches, and jeannie and have them open in the air to contemplate. It is not like I will find a answer from it, but it helps understand different view points.

You say: Mankind created his own God. A God that serves his agenda. Not the other way around.

REPLY: This is exactly what Atheists say as I read today many articles trying to understand Atheist stand point views. The believe that God is created for man and since there is no proof there is no God. (I know you are not saying this! I sense you have spirituality in you if I am correct as a Pantheist, yet they use the same conclusion in many perspectives.)

cheers

Dear everyone who is interested,

Our history has been marked by a ceaseless struggle against ignorance and superstition.

In ancient Greece the works of the materialist philosopher Democritus, who first taught the atomic theory of matter, were destroyed.

Anaxagoras was banished from Athens for being an Atheist.

The materialist philosopher Epicurus, revered by the ancients for having liberated man from fear of gods and for asserting the validity of science, was for 2000 years anathematized and falsely depicted as an enemy of morality and a disseminator of vice.

The Alexandria library, housing 700,000 scientific and literary works, was burned by Christian monks in 391 AD.

Pope Gregory I (590-604) destroyed many valuable works by ancient authors.

In every society there have been forces that have stood to lose by the dissemination of progressive scientific views. In the past these forces either directly persecuted progressive scientists and philosophers or sought to distort scientific discoveries so as to deprive them of their progressive, materialistic implications.

The Inquisition, a papal invention for suppressing all opposition to the Catholic Church, savagely persecuted all progressive thinkers; Giordano Bruno, Ludilio Vanini, and Galileo come readily to mind.

Voltaire was imprisoned in the Bastille, and Diderot was sent to prison. In our own country we are familiar with the story of Thomas Paine, of the Salem witch trials, of Ingersoll, of Einstein. The struggle is unceasing, as important today as during any other period of history.

We need, therefore, to see what we fight and why. We need not direct our main assault against the Bible or the Koran. We need not argue endlessly about the historicity of Jesus. We should look past trinities and angels and other theological blind alleys. We must look to materialistic philosophy which alone enables men to understand reality and to know how to deal with it. It is true that today our kind are no longer burned at the stake, but there are many other ways of exerting pressure. Our scientists and progressive philosophers are dismissed from universities and other employment. Outspoken scientific and philosophical works are much less likely to be published than rather senseless junk.

Character assassination is common.

Reactionary religious propaganda is unceasingly drummed into unthinking minds through the captive media of mass communication just look at how our presidential campaigning is going today. As always, our opponents today are formidable. But our strength lies in the positive approach of uncovering and publicizing the laws of nature and human behavior, and in applying these laws in the interest of human welfare. We need not waste our time with endless arguments about tortuous paths of the endless labyrinths of theology.

This is a view of a atheist and I must say it is compelling to me!

cheers

Dear Jeannie and Abra,

We need to know upon what we base ourselves. Atheism is based upon a materialist philosophy, which holds that nothing exists but natural phenomena. There are no supernatural forces or entities, nor can there be any. Nature simply exists. But there are those who deny this, who assert that only mind or idea or spirit is primary.

Do you believe that only mind or idea or spirit is the primary cause of our existence only?

To those who believe religion is the only source,

The church teaches that in order to reach heaven one must follow guidelines such as being obedient to the laws of the bible. The church threatens the wrath of God and the torment of hell for those who dare to oppose its teaching or in the long run face the consequences given if not followed.

Can it be so hard for you to believe that there is a possibility that materialism can liberate us, can teach us not to hope for happiness beyond the grave but to prize life on earth and strive always to improve it?

Could you believe that materialism restores to man his dignity and his intellectual integrity?

That perhaps a man is not a worm condemned to crawl in the dust, but a human being capable of mastering the forces of nature and making them serve him.

Can you believe that materialism compels faith in the human intellect, in the power of knowledge in man's ability to fathom all the secrets of nature and to create a social system based upon reason and justice such as Thomas Paine tried to with his book "Common Sense"?

Could you alternate your thoughts that perhaps materialism's faith is in man and his ability to transform the world by his own efforts without the help or religious doctrines written at a time where people didn't even know there were other planets available?

Could you believe that perhaps philosophy in every essence optimistic, life-asserting, and radiant can be considered the struggle for progress as a moral obligation, and impossible without noble ideals that inspire men to struggle, to perform bold, creative work?

These are some of my questions to you?

cheers

A joke inbetween as I see I am actually just talking to myself here anyway. lol

Moses, Jesus and a very old man were out golfing one fine day.

Moses drives his ball and it bounced off a tree into a water hazard. So he parted the water and knocked the ball onto the green.

Jesus drives his ball and it bounced off two trees into the water. So he walked on the water and scooped his ball onto the green.

The very old man drives his ball and it bounced off a tree into the water, the ball was eaten by a fish, the fish swam to the surface and was snatched up by a bird, the bird flew upward and was struck by lightning, the fish fell from the sky onto the green, the ball bounced out of the fishes mouth, and the ball rolled into the hole.

Moses turned to Jesus and said, "I hate golfing with your dad."

The full implications of quantum physics actually point to other realities besides this one. Our earth and solar system and the physical world are under the jurisdiction of the known laws of physics. Science still has not completely unraveled the mystery about gravity as it applies to the larger universe around us.

Quantum science implies the existence of other dimensions, perhaps other types of matter that cannot be seen or studied. Even perhaps other realities on the other side of black holes.

Whether or not "God" could enter this reality or this universe would depend on how you define what "God" is. To a pantheist, God is already in this reality. God made flesh is the human body. Even the word "Hu" means "God." Hence Hu-man means God-man.

So, yes, God is in this reality, and being here yes ITs manifestations are living under the laws of this reality. Therefor, the small manifestations that God takes are limited in their power and knowledge, but they are still God.

JB

Substance, in nature, must be prior to it's modifications.

Truth is constant and since Quantum Physics are laws it is not constant and therefore not truth which means Quantum Physics is all an illusion..all Quantum physics implies is that the universe is constructed of a substance call energy and that quantum physics provides the laws as to how energy can be shaped into reality ..what shapes that reality?.. well referring to the bible it was "Thought" but Thought may have nothing to do with this dimension of energy but just uses energy to manifest itself into this dimension

"Truth is constant"

That's the funniest thing I ever heard.

If you don't know what truth is then how can you state that it is constant? You might want to define "truth" first.

As far as quantum science is concerned, it is just "science" like any other science. It just looks a little deeper. Science is man's attempt to discover the true nature of reality.

Is it illusion? Probably. In fact the nature of reality is probably closer to what we define as an illusion than anything when you look closely at it, as quantum science does.

It is all an illusion or a type of dream, or thought created universe, made up of reflected lights and standing waves if you want to get down to the nitty gritty.

We live in a holographic type reality, all made up of energy and waves. There is no substance here. So you can call everything illusion if you want to.

is the existence of yourself to youself a constant? is it truth? ..or do you only believe that you exist and are not sure...the existence of yourself to yourself is the only absolute truth because it is impossible to prove you don't exist to yourself and it's impossible to doubt your existence to yourself ..I thought that how pantheist thought ...but anyway that is the only way one can measure truth is by the same way they measure the existence of theirselves which is constant so anything that is not contstant is not truth

Then you have defined truth.

I AM. That is the only truth.

Very good funches!!

I don't know. But here is what I imagine:

First out of nothing (I imagine) came chaos.

The "mind" (Of God perhaps?) came later to put the chaos in order, (just as when we sleep, our minds put the experience of the day in order and we awaken refreshed.)

The Universal mind houses worlds (environments) for the incubation of all manner of life forms. These worlds are like globes that are surrounded by forces that enclose the contents.

They probably look like planets floating in space.

Even our solar system has a force field around it that separates and protects it against outside forces to some extent.

Spirit is more of a movement of thought or the deliverer of information and energy, but not the source of all things.

But all things are not "created" by one source. All things grow and manifest other things, hence we create ourselves with the information that we (as elements) acquire.

Minds beget minds and we propagate and join together and become different things in the joining. (Elements combine to make other elements) Information is shared and exchanged until eventually we become aware of ourselves.

After all, we have something we call infinity to get this accomplished. That's like .... forever.

We create ourselves, but there is a source that drives us which comes from the nothing we call the void. It simply is something that perceives Itself a being.

Now, I have to go pee.

Dear Jeannie,

Go do what nature intended. lol

It sounds like a winner what you say, yet again a imagination that could be off based or a reality totally correct in terms of how things are.

To bad we cannot know now the truth of this!

Oh well, maybe we will find out when we pass away, or maybe never as there is simply no explanation granted to us.

Either way it doesn't really matter does it.

Imagine for a moment that you know everything there is to know. There is no question that you don’t know the answer to. You fully understand the true nature of your being, where you came from, where you are going, etc. You are the all-knowing God. You are the all-powerful magician. You can do anything you so desire.

What would you do?

Well, any concept of ‘power’ would be meaningless. You’re already at the top of the heap. You’re all-ready all-powerful, all-knowing. There’s nothing to lust for. Nothing you can’t have or do.

You can either imagine that you are alone in that state. Or you can imagine that there are many spirits in the same predicament. All perfectly egalitarian. There is nothing you could want from any of them because you already have everything they have. There is nothing you could offer them because they already have everything that you have.

There is nothing to discover, because you already know all the answers.

There is nothing to experience because you already know what it would be like to experience anything imaginable. In short, you’d be in a pretty boring situation.

So what would you do?

Since you can do anything, you’d probably create a world and give yourself amnesia and immerse yourself in it. Only by giving yourself amnesia would it be any fun. If you retained your full understanding of your true nature it would be a useless endeavor. Even though you are all-powerful, and all-wise, there are things you can’t do.

For example, you can’t retain your knowledge of your true nature and give yourself amnesia at the same time. You must choose to exercise your power. In doing so you are choosing to give up knowledge for the sake of exploring the unknown. You may the known become unknown by giving yourself amnesia. Then you enjoy trying to figure out where the hell you are.

This may sound strange to some people, but this is precisely what an all-powerful, all-knowing entity would be tempted to do. Just for the pure fun of it.

After all, it knows full well that it will eventually wake up from the dream.

It knows that there is no risk involved in this play.

There is nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

So there it is Similess. That’s your true nature. Now you know.

Now just enjoy the dream.

Row row row you boat.

Que Sara Sara

Have faith that your creator is truly benevolent beyond your wildest expectations.

More loving than you can ever possibly imagine.

You’re in no peril. You’re as safe as a babe in its mother’s arms. Just enjoy the dream.

Yes, that is the way many see it Abra, that God split Itself into many parts and went forth to create and explore and play.

What I think It creates are bodies to experience Itself in. New and different kinds of bodies all the time. Forms and shapes with all different kinds of attributes. Unlimited possibilities.

The human form has been most successful. A grand creation. It will be improved on. It has five senses, and lots of emotions and imagination. It's better than the lizard people, the nagas (snake people) and better than the Zetas, (gray aliens).

The reason the human form is the best so far, is because of all the emotion and imagination it has. Emotion (feeling) and Imagination are tools of creation, as they drive the thoughts. The human has great power to create. That is why they call it god-man. (HU-man). It is the little creator.

The earth world, and physical world is the incubator, the training ground for these little creators. You can practice all you want here, creating good and evil and all manner of silly things. When man learns to create something worthy, he moves on the to second grade.

JB

Dear Abra,

Thank you for your wisdom. It truly calms me to think perhaps that everyone is out of choice is only in a state of amnesia because we chose to out of boredom. That we as powerful magicians or as Gods want some entertainment to kill boredom and put ourselves in such a imaginative world.

I will enjoy my dream and believe that a God is all loving allowing us to create our own imagination. It is a great way to see things.

Sounds great! Rowing boat here!

Yet I have one problem in this world I created. I never imagined starvation, poverty, crime, hate, greed, selfishness or did I to have more entertainment to kill boredom?

Dear Jeanie,

I feel many of us won't make it to the second grade for some reason??

reminds me of the movie "Sphere" when the Sphere turned them into Pantheists and they decided to forget that they remembered



if Pantheists are Gods then why do they make reference to a higher God..sounds like you can take the pantheist out of the church but can't take the church out of the pantheiest



you just forgot to remember that it's all part of your divine plan ..besides you also fogot to include Satan floods plagues and Holy Wars in the name of

sorry...nothing to contribute but a smile for now

is my future hubby behaving?