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| Topic: THE FUTURE OF CHRISTIANITY IN AMERICA? | |
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Yes he did (so the authors claim) And those SAME authors also claim that Jesus said that this would all come to pass within THEIR generation. Well, this is 2000 years later and it didn’t happen. So what should we do now – keep waiting???? Where does it say that? On a side note, did you know that repeating a false claim doesn't make it true? Jesus said that the generation that saw these things happen and who would have the power to erase all life on the planet, that generation would see his return. mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. . . . Jesus then describes events leading to the end, Then he says this: Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Thus, we are to watch and when we see these things occur then we will know His return in close. In that context, He says: Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. The generation is the one that sees these things, not the generation He lived in. He told them that the temple would be destroyed just has it was. He told them of world events leading down to the great tribulation which is yet to come, the heavenly signs, trumpet plagues and then His return. He did not think it was His generation. Art |
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How about since Jesus was born in June, that we give Christmas back to the Pagan's... it's their holiday anyway.
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How about since Jesus was born in June, that we give Christmas back to the Pagan's... it's their holiday anyway. Actually in September. During the Feast of Tabernacles, on the 25th of the twelfth month. but yeah, how about that? what? 
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I've always understood it to be June, but none the less not on December 25th. Soooooo how about giving the holiday back, and stop worrying about it.
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Here....
 take it.  That just saved me ten grand this year!!!   
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You mock Einstein’s’ words as being “childish, foolish, and not thought out. It is bunk, silly immature, selfish thinking.”
But then you side-step the real question: Is the only thing that keeps you in-line the carrot of reward or the threat of punishment? If it weren’t for this deterrent or potential prize, then your real desire would be to go out and rape, pillage, and murder? Is you’re religion is the only thing that keeps you from doing these despicable things? All you seem to be saying is that if you didn’t have your religion you would be a horrible person? And I guess you’re stuck with that stance since you are indeed claiming that the religion is necessary for good moral values. Without the religion you’d be a horrible person, this necessarily must be your stance, because if you could be a good person without your religion then your argument that it’s necessary for good moral values would fall on its face. Seems to me that you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. You have to admit that your real desire is to be a horrible person. Anything less would blow away your very own argument that your religion is necessary for good morals. Good luck with that approach Art. |
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Hey BillingsDreamer,
Yes i can address that. If Christianity had it's way there'd be no science, medical advances, and people would be giving up their freedom and instead cowering in fear. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Bible, Matthew 10, 34-39 There's a loving god. |
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If you don't believe me then i'll show you what America would be like:
I talk to my only friend Jesus our "LORD"! I know "JESUS" understands my terrible desires and ect. I have towards little boys! And the main reason I murdered them little "BOYS", is because our society is so "AGAINST" the fact of "CHILDREN-DOING-SEX" together or with anybody! I believe children should be "ABLE" to do sex! And I can "ARGUE" that all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court! "SEX" is a great "GIFT" that Jesus gave us all!!!! [Freddy Goode, serial killer, in a letter to one of his lawyers] "My children, Michael and Alex, are with our Heavenly Father now, and I know that they will never be hurt again. As a mom, that means more than words could ever say. . . My children deserve to have the best, and now they will. . . I have put my total faith in God, and he will take care of me." [Susan Smith, who drowned her two children, in her confession letter, Nov. 1994] "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." [Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)] Thank Zeus for the separation of church and State (zeus, allah, budda or whatever god you wish to substitute). |
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Hey BillingsDreamer, Yes i can address that. If Christianity had it's way there'd be no science, medical advances, and people would be giving up their freedom and instead cowering in fear. Very incorrect, lol, but you know your stuff. Get off the crack with these stupid posts |
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Edited by
nuenjins
on
Tue 12/11/07 08:09 PM
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*peeking
Same old crap, different forum I see.  Christianity sucks and "needs" to fall so that self promoters will no longer 'want' to peddle the gospel, but do it "for real" and for all the right reasons. We need change although the article lumped too many concepts together. Science, real science, actually supports biblical teachings and that archealogical findings thus far are historically accurate. If you believe what the 'system' has taught you then you're just a mocking bird repeating what you heard. Everyone needs to start thinking for themselves and stop being so damn lazy. If you want truth badly enough, you would go find it. Most just want to know enough to have a good excuse for their particular lifestyle. Not only do I think the American church as it is needs to die. I'm thinking that America as a culture is on the brink of needing destroyed as well. Just like the Roman Empire, our arrogance and immorality will peak one day and destroy us all. Think of all the countries that hate us. The salt in America has become 'Mrs.Dash' and suffering for you're faith has become risking getting laughed at for a Jesus bumper sticker. How pathetic we are. The Article? Not good. Inconclusive and over-lumping. |
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Actually i am correct. BEcause of religion there'd be no science because what would be the point since everyone would be brainwashed to believe the bible has all the answers. As far as medical advances, where would we get them from? We couldn't experiment on animals since they are god's creatures and shouldn't be harmed, the same goes for humans. People wouldn't have free will because they'd have to do as the church instructs them.
As far as my posts being stupid, that seems like your judging me which as i recall is against what your book allows... oh that's right you only follow what you want to and discard the rest. |
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Actually i am correct. BEcause of religion there'd be no science because what would be the point since everyone would be brainwashed to believe the bible has all the answers. As far as medical advances, where would we get them from? We couldn't experiment on animals since they are god's creatures and shouldn't be harmed, the same goes for humans. People wouldn't have free will because they'd have to do as the church instructs them. As far as my posts being stupid, that seems like your judging me which as i recall is against what your book allows... oh that's right you only follow what you want to and discard the rest. Lol when it comes to someone who has a plank in their own eye, lets talk about judging someone........ Because of religion there'd be no science post a bible quote that says such..This is unture. This is your own opinion Untill them keep them to your self when your quoting FACT! /// People wouldn't have free will because they'd have to do as the church instructs them. /// This is church of scientology, please refer to thier belifs as "non-christian". Since God mentions nothing on the not using medication for healing, "God works in mysterious ways" This Scientology relys on purly God, which God doenst always work this way, moreless through others. Which in sence can be a Doctor or the nurse for example. I dont believe one bit of this Doctrine. Since it clearly counters itself. |
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I never said i wasn't judging, what i did say was follow your own beliefs which states that you don't judge others, because that isn't your job.
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." [Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615, during the trial of Galileo] That's what happened when a man tried to apply science. Why does it matter how i adress people? You all believe in god. You're dividing yourselves into groups instead of uniting like you people assume your god would want you to. With all the differnt groups of christians, catholics and all the other forms of religion you can't even agree among yourselves what is to be believed. God works in mysterious ways, please think of a better cop out way of saying you don't know. Why are you basing your whole life on something you don't know? Please i'm serious i want to know. |
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"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." [Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615, during the trial of Galileo] That's what happened when a man tried to apply science. You make a very vaild point, MAN. This is totally correct, i disagree with anyone you says science should not be regarded if you believe in religion. However man fail in life do you agree? Science is very real however dont mistake people being close-minded for religion. // Why does it matter how i adress people? You all believe in god. You're dividing yourselves into groups instead of uniting like you people assume your god would want you to. With all the differnt groups of christians, catholics and all the other forms of religion you can't even agree among yourselves what is to be believed. // Ahh again you are right yet God mentions False Prophets who come as though they Represent the same God as you and tell false lies in order to turn people away, so unless it is stricly from the bible i cannot accept it as truth, even some churchs i am cautious on what preaching i am getting. Its not that becasue it says Christian" i immeditaly agree with and worship, casue all these building are created by man, and only God knows their true intentions. // God works in mysterious ways, please think of a better cop out way of saying you don't know. Why are you basing your whole life on something you don't know? Please i'm serious i want to know. // If you want honest answers dont call them "Cop outs".. This is truth. Says so in the bible. Mysterious ways are ways other than striking a blessing in front of you, this is allowing others to bless you in order for them to get such a blessing. MY whole life is based on somthing i dont know, you mean becase i cannot see it i shouldnt believe it. I entirly understand why and i was this way for many years. WE as humans have 5 sences, seeing, hearing, speaking, touching, smelling. Take all these away then what do we have? WE have no sence only mind. We can only think.. IF you had no sences, what would you believe in? Does anything exist? This is extreem but do we rely on our sences too much and not focus our attention on what drives us, our immagination, our mind? I base my life on God becasue unlike proof from my 5 sences, my mind has proven him in existance. I have stories that may or may not play relevance in your thought process, but i ll ask this question. Given the fact that if you had no sences, what would you believe in?> |
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KalamazooGuy87 i think we're actually making some progress between the two of us (that's great).
Yes i agree that men fail in life, it happens. "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes" Gene Eoddenberry The quote i mentioned about the earth revolving around the sun is one example of close mindedness about religion do you agree? Another would be about the benefit of stem cell research. No matter what you believe on the topic it could save lives and a lot of religion is against it citing that god wouldn't approve. My point is how can you tell someone that could be healed by science they can't because THEY believe god wouldn't want it. Yes god does mention false prophets, however what if some of what's in the bible was mistaken as a false prophet and written by man? How can you tell what is true and what isn't. In fact, there have been many different translations of the bible, how do you know a lot of it is true? I'm sorry about the "cop out" comment, i really dislike how that term is abused by people. How can you be blessed by any man? We are all born with sin (which would include babies being sent to hell if they die since they never heard the word) thus their blessing would be invalid. As for the senses, what if we had more, what if we had less? Would we know the difference? "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei |
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Actually i am correct. BEcause of religion there'd be no science because what would be the point since everyone would be brainwashed to believe the bible has all the answers. As far as medical advances, where would we get them from? We couldn't experiment on animals since they are god's creatures and shouldn't be harmed, the same goes for humans. People wouldn't have free will because they'd have to do as the church instructs them. As far as my posts being stupid, that seems like your judging me which as i recall is against what your book allows... oh that's right you only follow what you want to and discard the rest. You assume too much and it shows. Your' ignorance is painful to read I'm actually kindof embarrassed for you.  As I said......laziness. |
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What have i assumed too much about? If i'm wrong point it out and explain. I think i've made myself very clear and have illistrated points to show where i'm coming from? Since you have failed to do the same it is you that is being lazy.
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For those struggling with the right words or with the topic, I might recommend Phil Hefner's The Created Co-Creator. I read it some time back with a few of his other books and he really stated a few things that were rather profound for the changing Christian world. The unfortunate events in the Christian church in the past decade and the issues of politics and religion have a tendency to stamp out the fire of the overall message. Remember also there are varying degrees of Christianity and Christians living in a multicultural world. That is the crux of it. AND you have more non-profit paper floating around now to establish a corner church than this nation has seen in decades. As I sit en drink my coffee and scratch my little Dutch head....I think...en I think. There is a message to be had here across the board. Question is....do we get it?
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KalamazooGuy87 i think we're actually making some progress between the two of us (that's great). I can agree, it takes 2 open-minds to come to equal grounds i enjoy logically debates Yes i agree that men fail in life, it happens. /// "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes" Gene Eoddenberry /// Attack this a little deeper, this quote. God , who creates faulty Humans. God Created Humans to make choices, from which they make faulty choices. Is God was to create perfect humans wouldnt he be a controller, dictator and would we be slaves? /// The quote i mentioned about the earth revolving around the sun is one example of close mindedness about religion do you agree? // Yes this is very closed minded of the individuals, another problem with me and Catholics. I dont believe in denominations, they are man created, HOW WE THINK it should be. // Another would be about the benefit of stem cell research. No matter what you believe on the topic it could save lives and a lot of religion is against it citing that god wouldn't approve. My point is how can you tell someone that could be healed by science they can't because THEY believe god wouldn't want it. // Your right. WE are not God nor do we have grounds to "think as though we are god". I cannot give you a professional opinion on "stem-cell research" casue i know little about it. I do promote growth however. // Yes god does mention false prophets, however what if some of what's in the bible was mistaken as a false prophet and written by man? // Somthings are difficult to believe or to understand. Religion is not easy to follow, i lost more friends than gained, been in harder spots than i have ever before, but i have came out a better man. The jourey we follow is never perfect, and most stories in the bible, take you through tests in which they test your faith, the very first one is not granting a blessing you think you deserve. Most walk from this point. Religion is not a belief it is a journey. // How can you tell what is true and what isn't. In fact, there have been many different translations of the bible, how do you know a lot of it is true? // I cannot expect all the translations to be 100% correct, i need to ask God for guidence in my reading, that im not being feed false information. Prayer is talking with God. If we are unsure we ask God for a path to take, as do most people with someone they trust, or a family member. Somtimes the path i am suppose to take i disagree with however, "what we think is right has been wrong before" i apply this to myself // I'm sorry about the "cop out" comment, i really dislike how that term is abused by people. How can you be blessed by any man? We are all born with sin (which would include babies being sent to hell if they die since they never heard the word) thus their blessing would be invalid. // I hold no grudges =).Intersting counter-point. i had never thought of it like this. I helps to understand those points. I can now address it. Man is born with sin this is true, but as a stated earlier, we are guided by God, this may be blessing for someone for a reason that is unknown. If you bless with a kind heart/ good intentions the bless cannot be invalid. IF you bless in expectations to be given, this is invaild and is false in Gods eyes. I cannot honestly Answer Babies dieing what happens, i do not know. This may be talked about in the bible as of this momment i know nothing about, i am sorry. // As for the senses, what if we had more, what if we had less? Would we know the difference? // We are unique that i dont find with other animals, why i cannot committ to the Ape theory. We have certain Mind thoughts, laughter being one that just dont apply to anything else living. This is why i can disregard our sences and believe that we still think. What our thoughts are about, what are we wondering. What if, the human will always question, regardless of how many sences we have.. As we lose our sences certain ones get stronger. Losing all sences does this allow your thinking and mind to become stronger? Do we disregard worldy "evidence" and focus on what we cannot see. Lack of sences promots faith. Without sences you are reliant 100% on faith and what you believe in // "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei // Choices, Heaven or Hell, God cannot force you to believe in him. I know as time proceeds there is going to be more and more evidence that will be closer and closer to proving god wrong but the "faith" gets tested at this point. Whats it gonna come down to, Denying faith or sticking to what is not always visually appealing.. alot of thought |
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I quote part of this discussion recently in a previous post by ??? :
"We are all born with sin (which would include babies being sent to hell if they die since they never heard the word) thus their blessing would be invalid." I guess my logic and sense and humanism would say WHAT? Does not Christianity present itself as an oxymoron in this sense? Actually, several issues here baffle me in the same way. And the literal context taken out of context. This is where the whole thing scares me just a little bit. People forget to think for themselves to develop the spirituality and relationship they so desperately strive to gain. And BLIND faith is a hell of a way to go. No thank you. As the original questioner in for this topic, I might wonder a few things. Is the original question meant for the liturgy and lessons, the Christian way of life, or is it also a question for Christian leaders in modern times. There is some flailing about going on. Not only in Christianity, actually....which is why I meant my 1st post. There ARE parallels. Pendulums DO swing. Change happens even with out us. Imagine that! So we need to think a different way. Translate a different way. Simply saying what can we change to modernize Christianity to sell it in this day and age...is not useful. Latin to guitar services do not Christianity make. And advertising a more palletable Christianity is....missing the mark. The Bible, the Koran, the Torah....these are lessons. These are parables. These are paths and guidelines to what makes mankind good and with humanism. My challenge is for Christian leaders is to be better storytellers. Tell the story in a way that makes it real today. Have the finger on the pulse of change. Not for organized religion profit and attendance statistics...but for real life. The change happens with or without us. Think on it. We are seemingly in the middle of a holy war. Just ask our President. I am neither for or against it as there was no proxy of the American people on the issue. |
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