BillingsDreamer

1. "What makes the God of the Bible better? He is holy, moral, and ethical. Further, He is a historical fact. In addition, He asks you to prove Him. Here is his answer to you:

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God tells us what He will do, and then He does it. The scriptures are filled with prophesies that have come to pass, are coming to pass, and will come to pass.

None of this is true for the other gods."

My ass. so many gods have made predictions that have come true. As for god telling you in the bible how he is doesn't prove that he's there.


2. "I don't do any of this stuff except the the church part which you are wrong on. It is in the Bible. They called it the synogogue in those days."

It doesn't matter what they were called. Buy books, buy cds, buy 5 bibles and a tshirt that says "i was crucified and all i got was this lousy shirt". Cash cow.

3. "To me, it is you who are presumptuous in that you think you know better than God Himself."

Yeah i tend to think i'm better then something that doesn't exist.

4. "Of course God can be proved. In the context of realizing that you can't prove anything to someone who wants to reject it, here is some evidence. If you really wanted proof, just use normal deductive reasoning."

1. "The universe exists. Nothing comes from nothing so it must have had a creator
2. The Universe is experiencing entropy. Everything is winding down. Eventually all will flat-line. Something had to wind it up in the beginning. That would be God.
3. There are laws in the universe. We cannot break them. If we live by them, we can fly to the moon and back. If we try to break them, we crash and burn."

Really god can be proved! Really? If that were the case we wouldn't be having this discussion would we? OK let me try to reason with this... try and keep up.
1. But if nothing comes from nothing where did the creator come from?
2. Yes you're right it had to be god. There couldn't possibly be any scientific proof that we haven't found yet? That's like saying "i had an itch today for no reason... must be god."
3. So what's your point?

5. "This is a ridiculous comment. God gave His commandments in a society that was to keep His law. Today parents don't treat their children properly, and children don't treat their parents properly. Under God's law, if parents tried to murder their children, then they would be tried, and executed. They had to treat their children well."

Yeah well they aren't tried and executed by god, if they're even caught they are put in jail for a few months and released.

6. "So, if I am hearing you correctly, you agree with God on this one, but you don't think it was necessary for Him to write it down."

RIGHT

"But, if we don't need a book to tell us this, then why are we still doing it? What about in third world countries like Somalia? They need to have God's law instituted and applied there. Some day they will, but until then, you should look at the fact that we have murders, 5 a day in Los Angeles that are reported, and I think you should rethink this. It seems like we need to be told.

I suggest that many of the murders don't think God's word is important or needed--just like you, and that is why this particular crime continues unabated."

Why are we still doing it? i don't know, but if god didn't want us doing it then he'd take care of the problem. So you want to invade Somalia and force your religion on other people? Praying isn't going to make water appear. If that was the case it wouldn't of taken 5 days to get water to New Orleans. Guess what i don't kill anyone and i'd never want to. Since when did god give you the power to judge because i thought that was something only he could do.

7. "No we are not the only ones. other animals are faithful to their mates."

Really which ones and for how long?

"Yes, you might want to scr-w every woman you see, and you might not want to marry her and support her. That is our human male nature in spades. But, God says that this is a destructive way to live, and there is yet a higher reason for what He says in marriage."

So the biology he instilled in us is bad. So god made a mistake which means he isn't perfect, which means he isn't a god.

"I hope no one ever marries you if you continue to think like you do. You cannot be trusted to be faithful, and your reason? Well I am an animal, and other animals are not faithful. Be sure and tell that to every lady you date. Thanks"

I'm always been faithful and very respectful of women (In your good women are nothing but whores and things to be traded). I never said i was like that i just said it was human nature. Don't believe me read the papers about someone killing their spouse for cheating.

9. "I do dare. How dare you to think that you have a right to steal what belongs to others? You think you can make the rules, and that the rules can change when the circumstance change. I would suggest to all your family, all your friends, and all your associates--never trust you. If you think like this, you cannot be trusted."

If i was poor and had to live off the streets would i steal food to survive, you bet. You would too. Actually i'm a very trustful perosn to friends and family, at work i'm a damn hard worker. As far as i'm concerned you follow a god that has committed more murder then everyone combined, and you think he loves you, it you that cannot be trusted.

10. "Your emotion blinds you to the truth. The truth is that the seat was always hers to take in God's law. The people who denied that seat to her were coveting what was not theirs. They believed a lie, and they stole her rightful place in society from her. In order to do this, they made themselves their own god -- you know, kinda like you do."

I think what you mean is reason blinds me. Oh the seat was hers in god's law. Well what about 911? so god's law let people kill destroy our nation? So what we made ourselves gods? What about the people that took those planes? If you would get off your high horse of blindness and your delusion of grandeaur then maybe you'd see things the way they are.

"You obviously want to twist things to make them seem like God and His way is wrong. But, it is you who are wrong. Your logic is biased, it is self serving, and shows that you don't care about truth, you just want to prove your point.

Which I guess is that God's way is wrong, and that your way is better, you are smarter, and more loving.

I don't buy it! You have a long way to go to even understand God."

My logic is biased? Scientific proof over a old book filled with fairy tales? Self serving, yes as we all are. You pray to god to get something then you are serving yourself. Even if you pray for someone you're serving your own self for the want of them to feel better. I care deeply about proof, i've just never seen any for a god.

Yes my way is better then something that doesn't have a way. Since i'm an actual being, yeah i'm smarter and more loving. Yeah i know god, i can make up an imaganary friend too.

"God has given man a certain number of years and then He will return and will establish His government on earth. He will establish His religion. He will eliminate war, disease, famine, and ignorance that masquerades today as intellect.
The nature of the animals will be changed so that they do not fight and tear at one another. It will be a beautiful peaceful world with cooperation among all peoples and not competition."

So god's biological clock is ticking down? And when he gets here he's going to run for president and fail on his agenda? Sounds like most of the presidents. Maybe he's come back time and time again and keeps messing everything up. All animals will live in peace and harmony, but what will they eat? Can't eat plants those are god's creation.

Seriously do you listen to yourself? You live in this dream land with elves and witches.

feralcatlady

"And as far as 34-39 this is Jesus saying what will happen to all if they don't put the Father God first. This is not taken literally it is meant to say that any man who doesn't love God more will be set against his own Father and same as said with mother and daughter and mother and daughter in law. "

Not to be taken literally? How do you know this? How do you know what it is "ment" to say. Don't you think that god would be able to clarify what he means, i mean being the creator of language and all.

Either it's the EXACT word of god or not at all. You can't say anything good that happens is literal and anything that's bad is not to be taken literally.

Oh and please feralcatlady list more "Archaeological Discoveries That Prove The Bible Writings " please.

"Okay fine you're right. But by that same standard, where did god come from? Who said there was a time when there was no energy and matter? What says that it all wasn't all completely random?"


"GOD IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE"

Oh right that explains it. Thank you for that scientific proof, It just is. Sorry but CAPS DON'T MAKE A CASE.

KalamazooGuy87

"There is common ground with religion and Science we just have to realize that for science to exists somthing that doesnt apply to "science" must exist."

Not too sure how i feel about that. Maybe, maybe not, but what says that a god, any god, had anything to do with it?

Skot there are somethings our brain is not powerful enough to understand. As well.

But since we were created in god's image you'd think he'd give us the knowledge to understand. So was it a design flaw? If so wouldn't that made god an inperfect being? Wouldn't that contradict that god is all powerful? Wouldn't that prove there isn't a god?

Well said Abracadabra

In 2004 the pope recieved immunity from the white house because a prosecutor wanted to charge him for covering up a sex scandel. I don't know why this surprises everyone, the bible is full of "sinful" acts that were done by "saints".

But then again it doesn't help when the pope was also a part of Hitler's youth program.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
[Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)]

Thanks christianity (and catholics) for that compassion and love you're spreading.

I'm just taking everything into context. So now there are 613 commandments?! That's a big leap from the 10 moses was given. But then again that's a lot of stone tablets to carry.

I wasn't talking about food, i was talking about water.

"Being that I am a moral objectivist, I believe that if someone today were forced to steal to feed their children, they would be less guilty than if they allowed themselves or their children to die of starvation. By the same rule, it is right to lie to save another's life, because telling the truth would make you an accomplice to murder."

Moses was damned when he tried to feed some hungry people in the desert against god's will. So i think it's safe to say that there are no exception in god's laws.

If everyone followed the 613 laws god provided then what would be the point of free will?

god is not what christians make him out to be. Loving, caring- wrong.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Bible, Matthew 10, 34-39

Am i taking that out of context too? Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

sorry KalamazooGuy87 for not commenting on your post. I'll reply later tonight.

1. Do we have to have another God before Him?
2. Do we have to worship using idols
3. Do we have to take His name in vain
4. How hard is it to keep the Sabbath--free vacation
5. Do we have to dishonor our parents?
6. Do we have to murder?
7. Do we have to commit adultery?
8. Do we have to steal?
9. Do we have to be false witnesses
10. Do we have to desire what wrong for us to take?



1. So what about all the gods that came before him? All the greek gods and so forth. You're saying we should disreguard all of them, why? What about all the Chinese gods? What makes yours any better? "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
-- Stephen Roberts

2. Do you go to church? Do you own a cross? Do you have pictures of jesus? Do you hear testiment from a pastor/preacher? Do you have a stupid bumper sticker on your car? Do you need any of those according to your bible? No you don't. Your religion is a cash cow.

3. What's your definition of vain? Besides, who are you or anyone else to tell me what context i'm using words. That seems pretty presumptious to me.

4. Some of us have jobs and a life. To sit for days and pray to something that can't even prove it's own existance seems perposterous.

5. Respect is earned not given. If your parents beat you or tried to kill you why should you honor them?

6. No, but do we need a book to tell us this? Do people do it, yes. However, anyone with common sense knows this is not acceptable. We don't need a book to tell us this.

7. We are the only species of animal on the planet that stays with one mate. In a essence it's against our biology because spreading the seed around and keeping the species going is our role. That's why at some point in their lives woman will want to bear a child. So in essence, the bible is telling us to go against our nature that is hard wired into us.

8. Do most of us (Americans) have to steal? No/ Go to a third world country where people will do anything for clean water and tell them this. How dare you make assumptions on behalf of a book when stealing means you either eat or die.

9. IF by false witness you mean turning a blind eye to other humans by following the creed of a book then i guess a lot of you people do.

10. In a time in our history Rosa Parks took a seat that was supposed to be taken by a white man. It was "wrong" for her to take that seat at the time. But because she did look at where we are now in civil rights. Is it perfect? No but it's going in the right direction. So if you want to oppress people and take away their rights then keep preaching.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

No i don't think if god made faulty creations he wouldn't be a dictator or a slave, we'd be all we could ever be. Just because we were made perfect wouldn't mean that'd we'd be in that state.

"Yes this is very closed minded of the individuals, another problem with me and Catholics. I dont believe in denominations, they are man created, HOW WE THINK it should be."

I agree it should be how we think, the problem i have is when they try and tell you how you should think. About movies, music, books, science and medicine. The worst part of it is, they succeed.

See i don't believe in god, fine that isn't a problem for me, the problem is organized religion and how it rapes people's minds.

I promote growth hormones as well, but if it means saving or helping people's lives, stem cell is the way to go.

Hey i'm glad you fought your way through some hard times and made it through okay.

Religion is a life long journey, okay. But isn't the point of a journey to get to where you need to go? Why would you start a journey and not know the destination, or even if it exists?

"IF you bless in expectations to be given, this is invaild and is false in Gods eyes." Sorry man but i gotta say foul ball. You cannot know what is right or wrong in god's eyes. Example, god has killed many people 40 days of rain, fire, the 10th plague etc etc, yet he tells us killing is wrong. If such contradictions exist, where does that put god in your eyes?

Yes i agree every animal has different mindsets (apes and other monkeys can and do laugh and find thing funny). The senses get stronger if one is lost because that energy is distrubuted to the other areas of the body as a means for survival. I'd disagree and say that without senses you're 100% relying on instincts, which in the case we're using isn't about faith whatsoever.

Just so you know i'm not trying to convince you that there isn't a god, what i'm trying to do is hopefully get you to think outside the box. Whether that's my ego talking or not i'm not sure. It's always great to have discussions like this because without a opposition people are completely blinded.

"To a new world of gods and monsters" -- Frankestein (1931)

Did you ever see that movie? Just think, there might be a day when that is real... i wonder where religion will be then?

What have i assumed too much about? If i'm wrong point it out and explain. I think i've made myself very clear and have illistrated points to show where i'm coming from? Since you have failed to do the same it is you that is being lazy.

KalamazooGuy87 i think we're actually making some progress between the two of us (that's great).

Yes i agree that men fail in life, it happens.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes" Gene Eoddenberry

The quote i mentioned about the earth revolving around the sun is one example of close mindedness about religion do you agree? Another would be about the benefit of stem cell research. No matter what you believe on the topic it could save lives and a lot of religion is against it citing that god wouldn't approve. My point is how can you tell someone that could be healed by science they can't because THEY believe god wouldn't want it.

Yes god does mention false prophets, however what if some of what's in the bible was mistaken as a false prophet and written by man? How can you tell what is true and what isn't. In fact, there have been many different translations of the bible, how do you know a lot of it is true?

I'm sorry about the "cop out" comment, i really dislike how that term is abused by people. How can you be blessed by any man? We are all born with sin (which would include babies being sent to hell if they die since they never heard the word) thus their blessing would be invalid.

As for the senses, what if we had more, what if we had less? Would we know the difference?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei

OKay fine you're right. But by that same standard, where did god come from? Who said there was a time when there was no energy and matter? What says that it all wasn't all completely random?

I never said i wasn't judging, what i did say was follow your own beliefs which states that you don't judge others, because that isn't your job.

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
[Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615, during the trial of Galileo]

That's what happened when a man tried to apply science.

Why does it matter how i adress people? You all believe in god. You're dividing yourselves into groups instead of uniting like you people assume your god would want you to. With all the differnt groups of christians, catholics and all the other forms of religion you can't even agree among yourselves what is to be believed.

God works in mysterious ways, please think of a better cop out way of saying you don't know. Why are you basing your whole life on something you don't know? Please i'm serious i want to know.

Actually a lot of comedians use jokes to enlighten people, if you don't believe me look at Richard Pryor, Bill Hicks and Lenny Bruce. What we are laughing at is the fact that you just don't get it. Hey i want what you want, a world of peace and happiness, i just think we don't need a god which isn't present to get to that point. I'm happy and secure with my life and my beliefs, why? Because i'm not driven by an invisible force that doesn't exist. I live my life by my standards not a book's.

Actually i am correct. BEcause of religion there'd be no science because what would be the point since everyone would be brainwashed to believe the bible has all the answers. As far as medical advances, where would we get them from? We couldn't experiment on animals since they are god's creatures and shouldn't be harmed, the same goes for humans. People wouldn't have free will because they'd have to do as the church instructs them.

As far as my posts being stupid, that seems like your judging me which as i recall is against what your book allows... oh that's right you only follow what you want to and discard the rest.

Evolution takes it too far? As opposed to what, a magical hand creating the universe? No thank you i'll stick to the discoveries that have been found. As a matter of fact i'll stick with the apes, because i'd rather be an enlightened ape then a ignorant human. Oh and by the way, a human is an animal, a mammel to be more precise. It's funny how you keep throwing around the term knowledge.

KalamazooGuy87

Actually most of us are happy, that's why we're laughing while some of you don't seem to get the joke. I'm curious as to what knowledge you think you're giving us? I'm also curious as to what your definition of knowledge is?

If you don't believe me then i'll show you what America would be like:

I talk to my only friend Jesus our "LORD"! I know "JESUS" understands my terrible desires and ect. I have towards little boys! And the main reason I murdered them little "BOYS", is because our society is so "AGAINST" the fact of "CHILDREN-DOING-SEX" together or with anybody! I believe children should be "ABLE" to do sex! And I can "ARGUE" that all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court! "SEX" is a great "GIFT" that Jesus gave us all!!!!
[Freddy Goode, serial killer, in a letter to one of his lawyers]

"My children, Michael and Alex, are with our Heavenly Father now, and I know that they will never be hurt again. As a mom, that means more than words could ever say. . . My children deserve to have the best, and now they will. . . I have put my total faith in God, and he will take care of me."
[Susan Smith, who drowned her two children, in her confession letter, Nov. 1994]

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
[Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)]

Thank Zeus for the separation of church and State (zeus, allah, budda or whatever god you wish to substitute).

Creativesoul i agree with you. I read not too long ago that they discovered another fossil in Kenya i believe that bridges the gap a little more as far as evolution is concered. But it doesn make me laugh to read people making fun of science while they get all their information from an book that's never updated and has talking animals.

The reason it matters is if we evolved and were not the result of a creator God, then there is no purpose or plan for life. It is meaningless.



Just because there's no god doesn't mean life is meaningless. But then... "He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave."
-- William Drummond

feralcatlady,

Hey you want to believe in bigotry, slavery, hate and violence, then go right ahead.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Bible, Matthew 10, 34-39

As far as finding proof of the bible, you find me a huge boat with feces of every animal in the world on the deck and then we'll talk.

Hey BillingsDreamer,

Yes i can address that. If Christianity had it's way there'd be no science, medical advances, and people would be giving up their freedom and instead cowering in fear.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Bible, Matthew 10, 34-39

There's a loving god.