ok ok ok im not changeing what i believ just cause half of america doesnt like it, they dont controle me. im a christian i believe in the bible, i do my best to live like god wants me to and im not stuping down to anyone elses level, they aint got nothing that god cant give me so thats just the way it is

What are you crazy?

This is the most popular religious interpretation of these verses!

You don’t even know anything about the religion you claim to support.

I’m not surprised though because you have said that you study the Bible on your own so all your interpretations are going to be your own personal guesses.

Here, I found a religious site that talks about it on my VERY FIRST TRY! How popular is that!

http://www.baptist-city.com/sermons/pleiades.htm

Spider, if you ever had any credibility it just flew out the window.

You just make things up off the top of your head and act like they are the gospel truth. How many times do I have to dispel your myths before you finally give up?

I understand, and when you do come to understand the kingdom of God, a Kingdom in which the King serves the subjects, not rules tyrannically over them for His own benefit, then you can make this decision, and in love, God will honor your request.

This is His promise to those who reject Him. He does not punish them for eternity as many falsely believe, He simply un-creates them. The wages of sin is death, the end of those who reject God's way is the second death. They simply cease to exist.

But, all the images you have of human governments are sick and corrupt. They are not like God's government.

But, biblically, this was Christ's gospel:

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

He is the king of kings. The other kings are the resurrected saints.

Christ did not teach this to the general public, but to the disciples He explained things about the kingdom. Notice He was not trying to convert anyone.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

When He was resurrected, He spent 40 days teaching about the kingdom.

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Is the nature of the Kingdom like those on earth? Absolutely not.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Thus, Christ is the example of the leadership of this kingdom. He would be subject to His own law. He would die to protect his subjects. Then, there is a glory to the Kingdom, a magnificence to it. A royal family that leads others by the law of love.

Just look at the description of it.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

That is just the headquarters, It is created in jewels. There could be nothing more beautiful. Imagine the creative projects that these beings inhabiting this headquarters will generate throughout eternity working in love and cooperation with one another without evil to always destroy things. Imagine the beautiy, splendor, grandure, and transcendent glory that will one day be inherited by the Sons of God.

Once you see it, I believe you will want it with all your being. If you don't, you will will get your wish. However, you are just mad right now. I suggest that you reserve judgment until then.

Art

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=459386&postcount=1


Your site is four years older than my own. We didn't know the above information until 2002, which is two years after your webpage was last updated.

To build upon this, Christians try to find answers. When we can't, sometimes we guess. Your post is actually a guess, which was made before we knew the truth.

indeed you are correct Spider, people want to find the first thing that looks remotly close as to what may prov christians wrong, its sad they do it for self glorification..

I’m not angry Art. I couldn’t care one way or the other.

I just don’t believe that God plays petty games.

Well //God knows what Satan is like. Telling him to do whatever he wants is no different than a Godfather of a mob telling his hit men to do whatever they want to someone. They know the hit men are going to kill them because this is what hit men like to do.// That is a poor excuse for looking at the big picture and im rather disapointed in your response.


As well if you believe nothing of Religion or even jsut christiantity what is your point in religion fourms, self-glorification?

Actually the New Testament explains that no one had seen God or heard His voice. It also explains that Jesus was the one who led Israel out of Egypt. He would have been the one who gave the ten commandments. Moses was actually talking to the one who emptied Himself and became Jesus.

No one knew of the father until Christ came to reveal Him to us.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shap

Thus, David's Lord was the Christ
Psa 110:1 <A Psalm of David.> The LORD (God the Father) said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

It was Christ who led Israel out of Egypt.
Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So, Moses heard of Him, but He had a different name. His name was YHVH.

Art

You sound so hostile though. Are you sure you are not angry? You certainly sound angry about God being a King and ruling over a Kingdom. What was I to think?

But He is not playing a game. His plan is huge, transcending the minds of all the philosophers, religious minds, and poets. And, whether you like it or not, according to the Bible, He is a majestic and powerful King who rules in love.

Art

I was refering to more-less a Evangalizing pastor of some sort. I was refering to hearing the words of christ- through man

quote]Your site is four years older than my own. We didn't know the above information until 2002, which is two years after your webpage was last updated.

So then why the quip about my interpretation having no weight whatsoever?

It’s still the most popular religious interpretation, and you should know that if you know your religion.

The analogy of how the stars in those systems might be gravitationally bound is pure coincidence. The original religious interpretation of the seasons is the only one that makes any sense Spider.

Why would God be talking about the gravitation binding of stars to Job? Do you think Job would have a clue what he meant???

Back in those days people used the stars as their calendars. This was how they talked about the coming and going of the seasons. They didn’t have printing presses to make paper calendars to hang on the wall.

The mere coincidence of the gravitational situations of the stars is just that. Mere coincidence. The Pleiades is a cluster of stars. The stars in Orion’s belts aren’t anywhere near close to each other.

The idea that this has anything to do with the story of Job is absurd.



The first interpretation was not a guess, it makes perfect sense for the time period.

You’re web site about the start coincidence is the absurdity.

You look at it like you are asking that the probability is the author of Job could have nailed this coincidence?

Well if he was actually trying to do this it would have been 1 in 4. There are only four possibly so he would have had a 25% chance of getting it right.

However, that’s the wrong way to look at it anyway.

The correct way to look at it is how it actually happened.

What’s the probability that religious fanaticals who are constantly searching for coincidences will actually come up with a few?

That probably is 100% guaranteed. Keep your eyes open for coincidences and you’re guaranteed to find some. It’s the nature of the life.

And we seem to have been distracted from the originally boo boo that was made when God gave the go ahead to Satan to screw up Job’s life in particular.

Nice try for a distraction from the original point. But all you really did was show your ignorance of the original popular interpretation when you told me that my interpretation had no merit at all.

Your star coincidence does not impress me in the least. That was not what the original story meant to convey. It was talking about the coming and going of the seasons, not the gravitational condition of groups of stars. That’s absurd.

Like Job would have known what God was talking about??????

Clearly he was talking about not being able to control the seasons.

Ok, maybe I do harbor some anger. Or maybe more like frustration. But certainly not with God.

I’m angry at the men who created this stupid myth in the first place.

It’s caused nothing but hostility and war ever since.

Even today it’s causing nothing be constant aggravation. People wanting to denounce scientific education. And poking their nose into the affairs and civil rights of others.

And as a scientist I guess I do have a chip on my shoulder for all the damage Christianity has done over the millennia against scientific advancement. By my chip is not with any God. My chip is with the air-head radicals who claimed to speak for God.

They were WRONG at every turn of the road. How could God have been WRONG?

Clearly this religion has nothing at all to do with God.

So yes, I do harbor some anger toward MEN.

I want to thank everyone for their posts. There were far more generated than I had hoped. I can't stay for any more of the fun.
The truth is I am becoming addicted to posting here, and I have sooooo much to do.

I do take Funches side on this one. I think Christianity is evolving to become something other than it was originally intended. In America, it is becoming a religion in which people believe what ever they want. They have a God that is one of their personal choice, as they see Him, and no rules, but to feel good. It is a kind of new age religion.

As Gnosticism influenced the early Christians, the new age has influenced us. Speaking of our time, the apostle Paul warned:

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

I think he describes our society today. We are so self absorbed. We, and especially the churches today are driven by money. We boast of our religion and how many members we have, and how big the church is. But, we blaspheme. We trivialize the Great God of the universe. We are disobedient to our parents. We put them in government homes so we don't have to deal with them. We are disobedient to our spiritual parents, Abraham Issac, and Jacob who taught us to obey God. We don't have natural affection. Ever notice the plastic smiles on the TV preachers? The tears and sobbing as the make up becomes smeared on the faces of the women on those programs. Then, if any one brings up the Christianity of the past, they are accused of legalism. They are incontinent, meaning that they do not control themselves. They do not think that they need to discipline themselves. Instead, they do what ever they want, and actually despise those who are law abiding. They are traitors to the faith once delivered, and actually give people into the devil's the enemy's hand. In doing so, then are heady, they rush to their judgment, and are conceited in what they think they know and believe. They love pleasure more than God. They don't want to make sacrifices. They want to feel good about themselves.

Is it possible this is the future for Christianity in America? Is it possible this next verse applies to the church today or the church of the future?

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Consider the TV evangelists and the impact they have on the church.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

For what it is worth, this is my opinion. Again, thanks for all your contributions.

Art

BillingsDreamer

1. "What makes the God of the Bible better? He is holy, moral, and ethical. Further, He is a historical fact. In addition, He asks you to prove Him. Here is his answer to you:

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God tells us what He will do, and then He does it. The scriptures are filled with prophesies that have come to pass, are coming to pass, and will come to pass.

None of this is true for the other gods."

My ass. so many gods have made predictions that have come true. As for god telling you in the bible how he is doesn't prove that he's there.


2. "I don't do any of this stuff except the the church part which you are wrong on. It is in the Bible. They called it the synogogue in those days."

It doesn't matter what they were called. Buy books, buy cds, buy 5 bibles and a tshirt that says "i was crucified and all i got was this lousy shirt". Cash cow.

3. "To me, it is you who are presumptuous in that you think you know better than God Himself."

Yeah i tend to think i'm better then something that doesn't exist.

4. "Of course God can be proved. In the context of realizing that you can't prove anything to someone who wants to reject it, here is some evidence. If you really wanted proof, just use normal deductive reasoning."

1. "The universe exists. Nothing comes from nothing so it must have had a creator
2. The Universe is experiencing entropy. Everything is winding down. Eventually all will flat-line. Something had to wind it up in the beginning. That would be God.
3. There are laws in the universe. We cannot break them. If we live by them, we can fly to the moon and back. If we try to break them, we crash and burn."

Really god can be proved! Really? If that were the case we wouldn't be having this discussion would we? OK let me try to reason with this... try and keep up.
1. But if nothing comes from nothing where did the creator come from?
2. Yes you're right it had to be god. There couldn't possibly be any scientific proof that we haven't found yet? That's like saying "i had an itch today for no reason... must be god."
3. So what's your point?

5. "This is a ridiculous comment. God gave His commandments in a society that was to keep His law. Today parents don't treat their children properly, and children don't treat their parents properly. Under God's law, if parents tried to murder their children, then they would be tried, and executed. They had to treat their children well."

Yeah well they aren't tried and executed by god, if they're even caught they are put in jail for a few months and released.

6. "So, if I am hearing you correctly, you agree with God on this one, but you don't think it was necessary for Him to write it down."

RIGHT

"But, if we don't need a book to tell us this, then why are we still doing it? What about in third world countries like Somalia? They need to have God's law instituted and applied there. Some day they will, but until then, you should look at the fact that we have murders, 5 a day in Los Angeles that are reported, and I think you should rethink this. It seems like we need to be told.

I suggest that many of the murders don't think God's word is important or needed--just like you, and that is why this particular crime continues unabated."

Why are we still doing it? i don't know, but if god didn't want us doing it then he'd take care of the problem. So you want to invade Somalia and force your religion on other people? Praying isn't going to make water appear. If that was the case it wouldn't of taken 5 days to get water to New Orleans. Guess what i don't kill anyone and i'd never want to. Since when did god give you the power to judge because i thought that was something only he could do.

7. "No we are not the only ones. other animals are faithful to their mates."

Really which ones and for how long?

"Yes, you might want to scr-w every woman you see, and you might not want to marry her and support her. That is our human male nature in spades. But, God says that this is a destructive way to live, and there is yet a higher reason for what He says in marriage."

So the biology he instilled in us is bad. So god made a mistake which means he isn't perfect, which means he isn't a god.

"I hope no one ever marries you if you continue to think like you do. You cannot be trusted to be faithful, and your reason? Well I am an animal, and other animals are not faithful. Be sure and tell that to every lady you date. Thanks"

I'm always been faithful and very respectful of women (In your good women are nothing but whores and things to be traded). I never said i was like that i just said it was human nature. Don't believe me read the papers about someone killing their spouse for cheating.

9. "I do dare. How dare you to think that you have a right to steal what belongs to others? You think you can make the rules, and that the rules can change when the circumstance change. I would suggest to all your family, all your friends, and all your associates--never trust you. If you think like this, you cannot be trusted."

If i was poor and had to live off the streets would i steal food to survive, you bet. You would too. Actually i'm a very trustful perosn to friends and family, at work i'm a damn hard worker. As far as i'm concerned you follow a god that has committed more murder then everyone combined, and you think he loves you, it you that cannot be trusted.

10. "Your emotion blinds you to the truth. The truth is that the seat was always hers to take in God's law. The people who denied that seat to her were coveting what was not theirs. They believed a lie, and they stole her rightful place in society from her. In order to do this, they made themselves their own god -- you know, kinda like you do."

I think what you mean is reason blinds me. Oh the seat was hers in god's law. Well what about 911? so god's law let people kill destroy our nation? So what we made ourselves gods? What about the people that took those planes? If you would get off your high horse of blindness and your delusion of grandeaur then maybe you'd see things the way they are.

"You obviously want to twist things to make them seem like God and His way is wrong. But, it is you who are wrong. Your logic is biased, it is self serving, and shows that you don't care about truth, you just want to prove your point.

Which I guess is that God's way is wrong, and that your way is better, you are smarter, and more loving.

I don't buy it! You have a long way to go to even understand God."

My logic is biased? Scientific proof over a old book filled with fairy tales? Self serving, yes as we all are. You pray to god to get something then you are serving yourself. Even if you pray for someone you're serving your own self for the want of them to feel better. I care deeply about proof, i've just never seen any for a god.

Yes my way is better then something that doesn't have a way. Since i'm an actual being, yeah i'm smarter and more loving. Yeah i know god, i can make up an imaganary friend too.

"God has given man a certain number of years and then He will return and will establish His government on earth. He will establish His religion. He will eliminate war, disease, famine, and ignorance that masquerades today as intellect.
The nature of the animals will be changed so that they do not fight and tear at one another. It will be a beautiful peaceful world with cooperation among all peoples and not competition."

So god's biological clock is ticking down? And when he gets here he's going to run for president and fail on his agenda? Sounds like most of the presidents. Maybe he's come back time and time again and keeps messing everything up. All animals will live in peace and harmony, but what will they eat? Can't eat plants those are god's creation.

Seriously do you listen to yourself? You live in this dream land with elves and witches.

The bottom line in all of this, is that better pictures of God exist.

The pantheistic view of god is far superior to the biblical view of God.

How could it be that mere mortal men could imagine a better picture of God?

That would imply that God wasn’t as smart as mortal men.

This clearly can’t be.

Therefore the biblical picture of God necessarily has to be bogus.

It’s really pretty simple.

I wasn't asking this, the author was told what to write by God and God created the universe, so the accuracy wasn't in question.

But let's do your "math". There are 80 constellations, two of which are bound by gravity and both were named by God in that verse. I'm pretty sure the chances of that happening is significantly lower than 25%.

Christianity is moving toward "New Age" and will eventually evolve into Scientology

Scientology is worse even then Christianity. It has the absurd notion that all psychiatric drugs are not necessary. Its like they think the study of the psychiatry is evil. These guys are very very crazy and scary people .

agreed,

who were you referring to about being very very crazy scary people Christians or Scientologist?