The reliable companies that do polling on a regular basis are accurate. It will not tell you exact numbers but it can give you a very good idea of the general state of things.

creativesoul


No, they don't. Inbreeding is an accumulation of recessive genes which have detremental effects on the organism.

creativesoul


What do you base that on? God said they were "good". God's standard for "good" is perfection. They were phyically (hence genetically) and intellectually perfect. But because of their "Free Will", they had the choice to do good or bad, we had the fall.

creativesoul


No, it wouldn't. Genes go bad at a rate of around...200 / lifetime. I don't have time to look up the actual rate, but that is close.

Dragoness


No, that is simply not true. There are dominant genes and recessive genes. If a gene is defective, most of the time, the recessive genes will be defective. But in two perfect people, all of the dominant and recessive genes would be perfect. Since genes can become bad over time, we eventually reached a point when enough genes were defective to cause inbreeding.

Partly symbols and codes, mostly before Abraham found his way into Sumer and discovered their alphabet. But yeah, to each their own;^]

I am not lumping you all together down to the individual and you know it. You are just trying to play on emotions here. The truth is that aprox 70% of Christians think creationism is the real deal. That is a majority far and away. No fringe element as you tried to call it.

Yeah, "you christians" isn't lumping, insulting us for believing in the bible isn't insulting either. Good day & God bless;^]

I can point out a "same difference" scenerio to back up this statement. I know people who if they are polled will vote religious because they are taught it is the "good" answer and they believe another way. They will not buck the standing power of the religious even to state their true beliefs.
The question of why they answered that way would have to be researched to really understand poll answers. Many Many people answer how they believe others would want them to answer, this makes it untrue scientifically. This is especially true with religion questions.

Show me the study that has this 50% number in it

This is still non-scientific at best. You have the right to believe it but it is not based from a scientific point of view. Adam and Eve had children, in order for the race to continue, father/daughter, brother/sister, mother/son, had to procreate, this is scientifically proven to mutate and degenerate the dna. There is no way around it.

On top of that to me, it is sick.

Another straw man, First of you are taking that one sentence out of a whole post. Next time be brave enough to put in the whole post and Ill take you more seriously. Second Straw man point out when I insulted you for believing in the Bible?

I will conceed the point that perfect DNA is non-scientific, because such a thing doesn't exist in human experiance. But everything else I have said is perfectly scientific. Genes go bad over time, not due to whom you are procreating with. Genes become defective at a fairly regular rate, which is around 200 genes / 70 years / person.

It would have been brother / sister, Adam and Eve were already married, so they wouldn't have made babies with anyone but each other.

It just shows either way, it was not meant to be taken literally. As I have read up on the stories around the world for the beginning of man. The stories are all above logic, but beautiful and imaginarily inspiring. These stories are meant to inspire us to believe we are special and have purpose, all. If you deem from it a sense of purpose and fulfillment, then it has served it's purpose. Religion is for giving hope, redemption, a purpose, a goal, a standard, etc.... if a person receives that from their religion it is serving you as it should. I am not knocking you for your beliefs. I have always been one to question the status quo, to never follow blindly, so I cannot deem what others get from the religion. I allow that others of the same intelligence and spirit I have, can get this from religion and I am okay with this. I do not try to unconvert others.

spider you continue to believe how you are comfortable but know that others have to do the same and we will all live harmoniously

spider wrote:

No, they don't. Inbreeding is an accumulation of recessive genes which have detremental effects on the organism.

<<<<<<< Spider, inbreeding is exclusively breeding within a 'family bloodline', mothers with sons, sisters with brothers, fathers with daughters... it is what Adam and Eve would have had to have done... no way around it while keeping to the scripture... unless it is understood as a metaphor? Inbreeding causes an accumulation of negatively stacked mutations which have a detrimental affect on the offsping... no way around that either.>>>>>>>



spider wrote:

What do you base that on? God said they were "good". God's standard for "good" is perfection. They were phyically (hence genetically) and intellectually perfect. But because of their "Free Will", they had the choice to do good or bad, we had the fall.

<<<<<<< Perfect means without flaw... genetic flaws could not have existed without the acceptance that the genetic code of Adam and Eve was not perfect. Perfect genetic code would have bred perfect genetic code. >>>>>>>



<<<<<<< If Eve were of Adam... they would have shared identical geneology with an "x" flipped from a "y"... in the common chromosome notion... How many years do you suppose two identically coded organisms would have to continue living and producing without creating the exact same offspring? >>>>>>>

The Adam and Eve story can't be factual because all fetuses are female until hormones changes the fetus from female to male.

Eve would have come first then Adam.

Which just prove that Judism and Christanity is male driven. Men dominated those religions and put the importance on men and regulate women to be subserverant.

Well, I read through this thread and see that Greg blew Spider clean out of the water with his following statement. There really isn’t much more to add.



What Spider is doing is claiming that we should consider something that has absolutely no evidence whatsoever over something else that has decades of conformational evidence.

Why would anyone want to do that?

People who argue that there is no ‘proof’ for evolution when what they have to offer has absolutely no evidence whatsoever have got to be seriously delusional.

There is overwhelming evidence that evolution has indeed occurred. I’m not going to bother posting it here because it’s all in the textbooks.

Moreover Spider even refutes the scientifically measured age of the earth. He’s not merely denouncing evolution, he’s denouncing all of science and it’s very ability to make and credible observations, measurements, and conclusions.

He posted in his OP,… This thread isn't for silly, illogical arguments.

Yet his entire hypothesis is silly and most definitely illogical.

By his own proclamation this thread is a waste of time.

It’s silly and TOTALLY illogical to any educated person.

These are layman arguments. Science doesn’t even question evolution anymore. Only religious fanatics do, and they have a clear agenda to support their unsubstantiated myths that have absolutely no evidence to support themselves

This very thread is illogical and silly.

Don’t ask me for proof of evolution.

It’s already in the textbooks! And in the labs! Go get educated!

Spider wrote:


I would point out to you that I have addressed the REAL point of your post, by pointing out the hypocritical, false, and mischaracterizing nature of your invitation: ‘… my statement has nothing to do with faith…’!!!

I felt the statement was suspect when I later learned from one of your later post the REAL POINT of your ‘invitation’ which you put this way :

“… Okay, but that's not the point of this thread. (the real point of the thread is …) I am SICK of being told that I am ignorant and uneducated. Therefore, I want one of the people here who constantly dumps on Christians to try to refute my OP…”

Of course, I wouldn’t pretend to be the ‘one’ you’re referring to in the real purpose of your thread, since I never dump on Christians.
I do on the other hand, vigorously denounce what I now consider to be a ‘dangerous’ attitude of some false Christians: ‘fanatical fundies’, pretending that the ‘fundementalist’ agenda is ‘Christian’.

I will denounce this ‘presuppositional-apologetics-bible-inerrancy-fundie’ obsessive compulsion every time I meet it. It is an insult to human intelligence, including the intelligence of the ‘fundies’ themselves.

Just to be clear that I answered ‘your’ real topic, here is what you added to underline the real purpose of your thread for everyone:

azrae1l wrote:
“… ok i get it, you just made this thread to get rise and start a fight ok then, since i refuse to participate in fights have fun with it...”

You replied:
“… No, I created this thread to shut up those who just want to insult the intelligence of Christians (you must stop referring to Christians. It is the backward attitudes of ‘fundies’ that are being denounced, not Christians)…”

Finally, do not ask me to prove you wrong. No one will EVER come forth to prove you wrong.

You are right sir. That’s right: YOU ARE RIGHT SIR!!!

You believe in the ‘inerrancy of the bible’ above and beyond everyone and everything else. That is always your agenda. Your meta agenda so to speak. Everything else with you is ‘pretense’.

So, with respect to you meta belief, or meta agenda, I agree with you. And you are absolutely right. And there is nothing to add.

You are absolutely right in your own belief for yourself. That’s is the end of that one.

Everything else you do is a perversion, a lie, a disgrace to yourself and to others.

As ‘azrae1l’ wrote, “… you just made this thread to get rise, and start a fight! …’’.

That sir, is your purpose. It is selfish, self-centered and pointless. But most of all, it is most unchristian.

Another good point, and yes, most religions give the man power over all including women. There are very few women based religions out there.

The Big Band Theory= God said, "Bang and it was"

As far as evolution have we ever in our times in the last say 200 years every seen anything turn from one species into a complete different species.....hmmmmm NOT

creativesoul,

I'm going to have to stop discussing this with you. You are incorrect on what you have stated about genetics, but I can't make you see that.

No...the male fetus has an X and a Y chromosome. Therefore it is male. The lack of external sex organs is just part of the development process. Young girls lack breasts, but they are still female. Your gender is based on genetics, not outward appearance.

This thread is about my beliefs on evolution. You don't have to prove evolution, you just have to point out the flaws in what I have posted. You cannot, therefore you attack me on a completely different issue, which I haven't discussed: Age of the earth. A common tactic for someone who knows that they can't win a debate based on their own arguments and the facts.



It's quite telling that you don't actually present anything that I posted and say "This is silly", because you can't find such a statement. You do what you always do, plug your ears, close your eyes and scream "I'm right, you are stupid!" until everyone who disagrees with you shuts up.