# The scientific method is a way to ask and answer scientific questions by making observations and doing experiments.
# The steps of the scientific method are to:

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results


This has been done over and over and over again in regards to evolution. Now you Christians want to just step forward with untested ideas and expect a seat at the scientific table. If your creation ideas are true then they should be easy to prove with this same method. Have at it. Put in the research and prove your point and everyone will flock to your truth. But don't expect everyone to ignore your lack of work on the issue. If you believe so strongly in this put some sweat equity into it. Quit whining about not being allowed to just throw any theory into the scientific classrooms. Science is about hard work first, proving a point, then you get the respect. If you fear hard work then I'm sorry for you.

i dont think that theology can only answer itself, one can use psychology and sociology and anthropology 2 analyze religion, i was pointing out a flaw in christianity/judaism (in this case the distinction doesnt matter) using their own logic, it seems that whenever one uses alternate methods to analyze religion, believers refuse 2 listen

Well it does sort of. According to what we know about the pre human "Lucy", she did kind of make the choice to begin walking upright inorder to adapt to a flat landscape no longer filled with trees. Not that a choice between survival and extinction is much of a choice, but hey;^]

rabbit:

I always start with...Define the problem

side note******* great music by the way!!!

Just like 'teenage' acne,

the 'bible-inerrancy-presuppositionalist-apologetic-fundies'

... keep 'popping-up' with their obsessive-compulsive 'in their face' pimples !!!

No one can get rid of teenage acne, it's a fact of the chemical change reality of growing up.

It's the same with 'fundies'.

An absolute and unconditional obessive and compulsive attitude, is a fact of the 'fundie' reality.

There is no use applying reason, rationality or 'hard facts' to any questions raised by a 'fundie', unless it supports the only 'presupposed' answer they are already 'programmed' t accept : 'the bible is absolutely right - anything which might hint at the bible being wrong MUST BE SUPPRESSED!'.

The 'puzzle' analogy helps draw a picture of the 'presuppositional-apologetic-bible-inerrancy-obsessive-compulsive' condition.

Imagine a group of people around a table covered with pieces of a puzzle. Not one person around the table knows what the end-state of the puzzle is.

Some start assembling pieces, others keep their arms crossed and claim they won't 'play' until they be shown a picture of end-state.
The crossed-armed folks further claim that it is a waste of time, that the puzzle is 'nothing', since they can't understand what it might be, '... it is just an empty space: nothing!'. They can't fathom that the puzzle is already complete in its emerging form, before 'assembled state'.

As the picture takes shape, some of the player start 'imagining' and speaking what it might be.

The cross-armed folks start calling the early discoverers 'heretics'. Their focus is still on the empty space, which leaves no room for anyting else to emerge.

Finally, just a few pieces reamain to be connected, to complete the puzzle. Most every player has long figured out the 'end state' of the puzzle. Not so for the 'cross-armed' player. 'there are three pieces missing!!! would claim the 'fundie'. 'This is inconclusive. Any of those three pieces could change the whole picture. I still think it is nothing, and I INSIST!!!'.

DNA and Phylogentics are some of the 'last' group of pieces being assembled, giving the puzzle its obvious and 'most probable' conclusive state.

But as expected, the 'cross-armed-fundies' are focusing all their 'presupposed-bible-inerrancy' attention on the 'three' missing pieces, rather then the 90% completed parts, which they perceive as the 'evil' contradictory evidence, disturbing the order of their bible story.

'Evolution: prove me wrong!' doesn't contitute an honest debate. It is certainly not an open-minded invitation to forward anything.

It is nothing other than a non-negotiable fundie 'presupposition' provocation, looking for a 'boxing arena' to practice its 'apologetics' 'suppress the opposition' antics!!!

Really guys, READ 'CERVANTES', 'DON QUICHOTTE'!!! It may not change anything about your condition on the long term, but at least, you'd be 'presupposing' while reading, instead of 'presupposing' keying at JSH!!!

Why the stereotype of Christians? Do you assume all christians are anti evolution? If so, you should know that that's not the case;^]

like islam, the reputation of christianity is tarnished by psychos who make their voices heard louder than the non psychos

So you just go ahead & endorse the stereotype knowing it's not true? And that makes it ok to bash someone for their religion and end up bashing all other believers in the process? And btw, same as with Islam, the extremists get heard by the majority not because of how loud they "make" their voices but because the media gives them the spotlight. Controversy = ratings and the rest of us simply get ignored and lumped in with the fanatics;^]

Please allow me to repeat...

spider wrote:

A complete misunderstanding. 10% of the brain is used for thought, 90% is used for wiring. Humans use 100% of our brains, this is common knowledge in Psychology and Medicine, but outside of those fields, people still believe that only 10% of the brain is used.


<<<<<<< I love psychology , consciously use... the true capabilities are yet to be understood... It truly surprises me that you would choose to use psychology as a considered source of knowledge...>>>>>>>


<<<<<<< Again, to what do you attribute this?>>>>>>>

turtle, i never intended 2 lump all christians in with the evangelists, and i dont endorse the stereotype, and if i bash christianinty (which i do) its because i believe all organized religion is evil not just christianity

Well I strongly dissagree with that, orginised religion is a good thing when done properly and a bad thing when it's abused. And still, the evangelists aren't all bad, again it's only the fanatics that get the media attention;^]

then you are denying the existence of "Free Will" ...if you believe in 'Free Will" then you also have to believe species have the "Free Will" to make a jump to another Species ..

Theology in general? Yes, you can apply any relavent field. Specific theology? No, you can't answer why Moses parted the Red Sea with an answer from outside the Bible. You can't answer why the God of the Bible created a Universe which is flawed with information from outside the Bible. If you want to say "Why do humans believe in gods", use psychology, physiology, sociology or any other ology that you want. But it's simply NOT true that you can answer a religion specifiic question with outside information.

funches...

Free will is an 'educated choice' between right and wrong... in the simplest terms...

It has nothing to do with evolution.

Your bridge is delusional!

voileazur,

As usual, you offer nothing worth mentioning. Keeping to your original form, you didn't read my post. You also ramble on and on without coming close to addressing the topic at hand. SHOW ME HOW I'M WRONG. Our beliefs on evolution / creationism are different, but we use the same science. Show me how my beliefs are wrong or unthinking. The truth is, you can't. The truth is, we have the same evidence, but different conclusions. Since you can't disprove my belief and since my belief is so offensive to you, you and your ilk instead insult anyone who doesn't buy into evolution hook, line and sinker.

aprox 80% of the US is Christian
And 55% (of us citizens) believe in creationism over evolution (cbs poll)

that is not a radical fringe!!! That is a huge majority of Christians that do not understand basic basic science. How dangerous is that for our society. How expensive is that to try and fix?

I do not agree with funches on the free will to jump to another species, no jumping involved. Mutations happen willy nilly in the dna of all living creatures. I am not sure who made the suggestion of this actually being a preset to dna, to change periodically, due to external changes, internal changes, weather changes, etc...... This is a survival mechanism in the dna to convert the being to be more efficient. Some mutations go terribly awry, while others enforce the survival.

As for the bible, the original books of the bible were altered by the author of the bible to suit them. The original books were written stories of the folk lore at the time. In days of old the folk lore stories were passed in words down from generation to generation. The books chosen to be placed in the bible were hand picked by the author, most known, King James Version. He worked with others and collected stories and chose what stayed and what went and converted each story to his liking. So to take the story book as verifiable fact of creation in the first place should be dubious. Now if you choose to believe in the teachings of the bible and adhere them to your live that is a personal choice, a belief, all your own. If you find others who want to share your belief all the better for you. The bible is a man made story book of old wifes tales of which there will be found some small truths of history here and there as most wives tales of old were based on a small amount of real history. But to even base any scientific value on the bible is ludicrous, we know there is no way in heaven or hell that man could have survived if started from incest. It is scientifically known what happens to dna if family members procreate. So scientifically incorrect. We have evovled that much to understand that.

Basically a belief is a belief and everyone should be allowed theirs.

Thank you for prooving my point (even though statistics are always flawed), you prooved my point by pointing out that not ALL christians are anti evolution or science in general for that matter (and 55% isn't a "vast" majority). Yet you say "you christians" as if all christians hold the same view. It simply isn't true. You'd be better off addressing individuals rather than an entire religion, as it stands now it comes off as bigotry and ignorance;^]

the problem with the evolution theory happening over millions of years is that the earth isnt millions of years old

Says who?

A key point in these 'religion chat' threads 'Turtlepoet78'.

I have been stressing at every opportunity, that the very small radical and fundamentalist faction, the least 'christian like' of Christians, account for an insignificantly small portion of the 'world' Christian community. Here are some numbers I posted in a neighboring thread:

''... What is important to point here, is that strict adherence to ‘bible inerrancy’, is practiced by an extremely slim minority of Christians. They account for only 0,05%, or 1/2000th of the world Christian community, in pockets spread throughout the US, and represent 0,346% or 1/300th of the US population.

Therefore, it isn’t in their numbers, but rather in the noisy ‘militantist’ mentality and tactics that religious fundamentalists occupy a disproportionate space in the public eye...''

'Fundamentalism', a purely early century US protentantism movement, is far less than even a single apple in the 2.1 or so world Christian population.

While fundies insist to mak everyone believe that THEY speak for Christians, reality again on this point simply doesn't support their mischaracterization.

People acting in good faith, cannot condemn the whole Christian family because of the unacceptable and 'unchristian like' behavior of a few bad Fanatical 'fundie apples'.

On that, and many other views, I agee with you 'Turtlepoet78'.