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| Topic: Evolution: Prove me wrong! | |
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This thread isn't for ad hominems.
This thread isn't for insults. This thread isn't for silly, illogical arguments. I am going to make a statement about science and religion and I want someone to try to refute me. MY STATEMENT There is a certain flexibility in the genetic code of every Genus on the planet. This flexibility results in the abundance of speices which we see around us. Every Genus has a varying degree of flexibility, which can effect all morphological aspects of the individual species. There are limits to this flexibility, no member of a genus will produce a species which does not belong to the genus. In other words, a lizard cannot be the progenator of mammals. This is supported by the Bible, which shows that Noah brought two of every kind, kind being analogous to Genus. We see the flexiblity of species described in Genesis, when Jacob bred white goats to produce black goats. I believe that verifiable science agrees with the Bible on biology. I think that Evolution is on shakey ground, because of the assumption made that a cross Genus jump is possible, even though we have never witnessed such an event. As has been demonstrated by many Christians here and stated by many non-Christians: A Christian can believe in evolution. My statement has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with the fact that as a thinking and inquisitive individual, I haven't found any support for the belief that a genus can branch out to produce a new genus. Speciation has been verified, but until there is hard evidence (fossils don't count) of one genus producing another genus, I will continue to believe that Evolution is a myth. |
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oh and by the i find evolution
on worse than shaky ground kinda like quick sand they keep throwing rocks into to try to get some footing but maybe creationism bread evolution says created in seven days but how long is seven day is not time a speculation does it not also say a second is as a day and a day as a second would not God have to obey his own laws thus to create man may have taken how many seconds in a day x that into years is it not logical that this could be a possibility after all if God did not obey his own laws of science then God would be a hypocrite would he not just a thought but hey what do i know |
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and lets look at the big bang theory... if this were possible we should be able to close an empty box shake it for awhile, open it up and have a magnificent watch inside...
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I'm a bit perplexed after reading this and was curious if you could educate me, I was wondering who's theory of Evolution included plants or animals of one genus evolving in a single generation into something totally different. I certainly can't recall anyone ever claiming that an aligator had puppies! The major transformations that Evolution offers are things that we as humans would NOT see because they happen over thousands/millions of years. During the course of a single year, a frog can change from having gills and only able to survive in water to having lungs and incapable of breathing underwater. So you are saying it's impossible for a mutated fish to hatch with both gills and lungs, or perhaps do the exact same thing and have his organs change during growth? Try to remember the major changes happened one little thing at a time... never changing directly into something else but merely a species with a different characteristic, then after enough changes it would be different enough that we could no longer classify it as the same creature. (remember the method of Scientific Classification is not something created by God or nature, but merely a method we humans have used to identify different types of creatures, it is not nearly as cut and dry as many people think, there are many many creatures that sort of sit on the edge between one type and another. Something as basic as laying eggs, or giving birth keeps a creature from being classified as a totally different genus.
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evolution like creation are both myths/theories ..just because you don't believe in one doesn't automatically means you have to believe in the other ..if Christianity among other religions make claims of "Free Will" then they must recognize and also admit that a species has the "Free Will" to make the choice to jump from one species to another, if they claim this is impossible then don't claim "Free Will"
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the problem with the evolution theory happening over millions of years is that the earth isnt millions of years old
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spider:
One known thing has intrigued me concerning evolution is the fact that science has been able to determine that humans share more dna 'traits' with the chimpanzees than horses do with zebras... curious indeed! |
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yes creative this will make you curios as well... why are pig organs closer to human organs than any other animal.... for some time now doctors have been replacing peoples hearts with pig hearts
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and lets look at the big bang theory... if this were possible we should be able to close an empty box shake it for awhile, open it up and have a magnificent watch inside... that's why the big bang is only a theory and that God created the universe is only a belief and why neither at this point in time is fact or/and truth |
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I'm a bit perplexed after reading this and was curious if you could educate me, I was wondering who's theory of Evolution included plants or animals of one genus evolving in a single generation into something totally different. I certainly can't recall anyone ever claiming that an aligator had puppies! The major transformations that Evolution offers are things that we as humans would NOT see because they happen over thousands/millions of years. During the course of a single year, a frog can change from having gills and only able to survive in water to having lungs and incapable of breathing underwater. So you are saying it's impossible for a mutated fish to hatch with both gills and lungs, or perhaps do the exact same thing and have his organs change during growth? Try to remember the major changes happened one little thing at a time... never changing directly into something else but merely a species with a different characteristic, then after enough changes it would be different enough that we could no longer classify it as the same creature. (remember the method of Scientific Classification is not something created by God or nature, but merely a method we humans have used to identify different types of creatures, it is not nearly as cut and dry as many people think, there are many many creatures that sort of sit on the edge between one type and another. Something as basic as laying eggs, or giving birth keeps a creature from being classified as a totally different genus. I guess you missed this, so let me repeat myself "This thread isn't for silly, illogical arguments. " I never claimed that the theory of evolution suggests that evolution happens in one generation. Also, I know plenty about Evolution, I don't need a course. That's not the purpose of this thread. Since you have not refuted my statements, shall I assume you cannot? |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Mon 12/10/07 08:45 AM
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spider: One known thing has intrigued me concerning evolution is the fact that science has been able to determine that humans share more dna 'traits' with the chimpanzees than horses do with zebras... curious indeed! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/12/05/MN153329.DTL&type=science The genetic code of the mouse, published on a public Web site (www.ensembl.org), is expected to speed the work of laboratory scientists studying human diseases around the globe. Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute, called the feat "a tremendously exciting and defining moment for biomedical research." Among the findings are that mice and human beings both carry about 30,000 genes. Differences within these individual genes -- the precise sequences of the four-letter DNA code -- spell out the obvious differences between the two mammalian species. On a letter-by-letter basis, the genes are 85 percent the same. Humans and mice share 85% of their genes. Why aren't we studying how humans evolved from mice? |
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Edited by
TelephoneMan
on
Mon 12/10/07 08:50 AM
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Pertaining to the fossils and bones that folks have found...(Java man, Australopithecus (et. el.), including any and all fossils found by Leakey (et. el.))... and pertaining to the differences these fossils and bones have to modern man...
Consider this... They have not found an entire civilization of these fossils and skulls... they have found just one of each ... Which brings me and my logical thinking mind to the conclusion that these findings were not some form of "missing link" as these scientists have speculated, but rather one organism out of millions that was born with a birth defect. We have birth defects today, it is sad, but they do exist. Some of the humans born today with birth defects are born with deformed skulls, arms, legs, chests... if, in 10,000 years somebody finds the fossil remains of such an individual, what will they speculate about our civilization? Pertaining to why they might have found a single fossil of one skull off by itself with no other skulls like it around... well, isn't that typically human behavior to be socially prejudiced against those with defects? It would be simple human nature that shunned this person who was born with a different look or different effect to their growth and development. It actually shows the evidence that humans existed more than it shows the existence of some speculated mutation of the species, etc. Humans existed because the prejudice inherrent to all humans by nature is what drove these defect-born individuals to the solitude in which they were found millions of years later. (If carbon dating is a perfected science... there are just too many variables...) It can in no way support the entire theory of evolution. If Leakey and other such scientists had uncovered dozens or hundreds of the same species, it would be more acceptable in the finding, but still loaded with speculation. Remember this.... "In 1492, Columbus sailed the seas of blue..." It has only been 500 years that the world has been believed to be round and not flat..... Before that they swore the world was flat... and it was the scientists that were trying to show evidence of the world was flat... until different scientists proved that the world was round... and Columbus did his thing... Now wouldn't it just flip the collective noodle if they dug down into some remote place and found an alien space ship that when carbon dated, passed a figure off as 50 million years old or so.... Because any record keeping has long since been destroyed, the modern world will never know the true origins of man. Just be grateful for the air in your lungs today, good health if you have it, and the brief life you will live on this rock for about 60-90 years of you are lucky... |
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soldier wrote:
yes creative this will make you curios as well... why are pig organs closer to human organs than any other animal.... for some time now doctors have been replacing peoples hearts with pig hearts <<<<<<< Ummmmmm.... this is news to me... never have I heard of such a thing, in fact, I wonder of the validity of your source. As a result of recognizing how hard it is for a donor organ from a human to match another human, and all of the anti-rejection measures taken to help eliminate the rejection,I would seriously question the notion you have presented.>>>>>>> |
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Remember this.... "In 1492, Columbus sailed the seas of blue..." It has only been 500 years that the world has been believed to be round and not flat..... Before that they swore the world was flat... and it was the scientists that were trying to show evidence of the world was flat... until different scientists proved that the world was round... and Columbus did his thing... Not true. Science has accepted that the earth was round for over 2000 years. Several early Christians were branded heretics for claiming that the earth was flat. Columbus was looking for a trade route to India to bring back spices, because at the time, the only trade routes were overland. Anyone who has been on the ocean knows the earth is round, the masts of other ships can be seen rising from out of the ocean. |
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<<<<<<< Ummmmmm.... this is news to me... never have I heard of such a thing, in fact, I wonder of the validity of your source. As a result of recognizing how hard it is for a donor organ from a human to match another human, and all of the anti-rejection measures taken to help eliminate the rejection,I would seriously question the notion you have presented.>>>>>>> Korea to mass-produce pig organs for human transplants http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/01/1086058836809.html Pig-to-Human Transplants on the Horizon http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/17596/ animal to human organ transplants http://www.rds-online.org.uk/pages/page.asp?i_ToolbarID=5&i_PageID=161 |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Mon 12/10/07 08:56 AM
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spider:
The information on mice you just presented is the very reason science uses mice as 'guinea pigs' for experiments, as you well know. The ratio between humans and great apes is more along the 99 pct. range is it not? And it seems to me that the pig organ thing is being investigated and pursued as a result of the need for organs... Has there been an actual case of a successful transplant from a pig to a human? |
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well ty spider I didnt feel like looking up all the info..
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In other words, a lizard cannot be the progenator of mammals. if they have "Free" Will they can ....well unless "Free Will" doesn't exist |
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Remember this.... "In 1492, Columbus sailed the seas of blue..." It has only been 500 years that the world has been believed to be round and not flat..... Before that they swore the world was flat... and it was the scientists that were trying to show evidence of the world was flat... until different scientists proved that the world was round... and Columbus did his thing... Not true. Science has accepted that the earth was round for over 2000 years. Several early Christians were branded heretics for claiming that the earth was flat. Columbus was looking for a trade route to India to bring back spices, because at the time, the only trade routes were overland. Anyone who has been on the ocean knows the earth is round, the masts of other ships can be seen rising from out of the ocean. I stand corrected, and you are right... here is an excerpt from a wikipedia article on the topic: "By classical times the idea that Earth was spherical became increasingly important in Ancient Greece. Pythagoras in the 6th century BC, apparently on aesthetic grounds, held that all the celestial bodies were spherical. However, most Presocratic Pythagoreans considered the world to be flat. Around 330 BC, Aristotle provided observational evidence for the spherical Earth, noting that travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon. This is only possible if their horizon is at an angle to northerners' horizon. Thus the Earth's surface cannot be flat. He also noted that the border of the shadow of Earth on the Moon during the partial phase of a lunar eclipse is always circular, no matter how high the Moon is over the horizon. Only a sphere casts a circular shadow in every direction, whereas a circular disk casts an elliptical shadow in all directions apart from directly above and directly below." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth Ok, so for the last 2,000 years folks thought the world was round... Doesn't change anything I stated Because there are no records from the beginning of time, man will never know the origins of man. It is all speculation. |
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spider: The information on mice you just presented is the very reason science uses mice as 'guinea pigs' for experiments, as you well know. The ratio between humans and great apes is more along the 99 pct. range is it not? We don't know that, no great ape has ever had it's DNA fully mapped. Also, if we accept that life has a creator, then we will assume that the creator would use a similar process for all of his creations. Mice are 85% like humans. Some vegtables are around 50% human DNA. It's because all life has the same creator and same building materials, not because of evolution. |
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