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Topic: "to believe is to doubt"
Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 01/06/08 10:44 PM
doubt and a lack of proof are 2 different things.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 06:29 AM
that is actually just misusing the word. believe 1. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully. –verb (used with object) 2. to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to. 3. to have confidence in the assertions of (a person). 4. to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation: The fugitive is believed to be headed for the Mexican border. 5. to suppose or assume; understand (usually fol. by a noun clause): I believe that he has left town. others may doubt what you believe is true, but if you really believe it then you don't have doubt. Thats why I say an individual can believe without having doubt. all this "google cut and paste" from the dictionary is no different than those that "google cut and paste" from the Bible ..you are limiting your perspective to the context of a book so the only thing if proves is that you are control by the book and therefore have condemn yourself not to think beyond the book and that is the definition of a belief ...to not be willing to think beyond it ..just like the Bible is not 100 percent correct then so are the possibilites that other Books are EXAMPLE: Pluto is in the science books as being a full fledge planet ...but that is not considered as being true any more and in turn has shown the possible inaccuracies in astrology predictions

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 06:33 AM
doubt and a lack of proof are 2 different things. how is that possible when you can only "doubt" because there is a lack of "proof" and that is why faith is needed because of that lack of proof ...therefore faith is lack of proof

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 09:57 AM
I already made this argument. I said that someone can doubt it because there is no proof. What I am saying is that and individual that believes something doesn't doubt that same thing. If they doubted then they are no longer believing. What you are saying is like comparing right and left. If there is no such thing as right then there can be no left, but if someone goes right they are not going left.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 10:09 AM
I already made this argument. I said that someone can doubt it because there is no proof. What I am saying is that and individual that believes something doesn't doubt that same thing. If they doubted then they are no longer believing. then give an example of a religious belief that has no doubts and please don't include faith into the equation

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 11:04 AM
you can't do that. I am talking about personal beliefs not a group or a religion. Thats why I state individual. I know my grandmother has no doubt that God exists even though there is no proof. I would never say she doubts that and I know she would say she doesn't.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 11:48 AM
you can't do that. I am talking about personal beliefs not a group or a religion. Thats why I state individual. I know my grandmother has no doubt that God exists even though there is no proof. I would never say she doubts that and I know she would say she doesn't. if you are not talking about a group or religion then that means you shouldn't bring your grandmother's religion in it? also you are saying that your grandmother have no doubts..how would you know that unless you can read her mind ...she may be lying to you so come on Chazster this is a religious forum and I'm taking about religious beliefs so give an example of a religious belief that has no doubts and remember don't include faith I bet you can't

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 11:51 AM
yes but a belief belongs to an individual. I thought you would have the intellect to realize that. In fact I am sure you do. A religion has a belief system, but the religion itself does not believe. It is the individual. If someone doubts Gods existence then they don't believe he exists. That is not the same as saying they believe he doesn't exist. It just means they are unsure.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 11:58 AM
yes but a belief belongs to an individual. I thought you would have the intellect to realize that. In fact I am sure you do. A religion has a belief system, but the religion itself does not believe. It is the individual. If someone doubts Gods existence then they don't believe he exists. That is not the same as saying they believe he doesn't exist. It just means they are unsure. of course the belief belongs to the indiviual but they all contains doubt..that's why it's only can be claim as a belief and not truth sorry Chazster...since you can not give an example of a religious belief that has no doubts then I have proven my point.."to believe is to doubt" all you have to do is give one example to disprove that phrase...but you will not be able to ...it is impossible

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Mon 01/07/08 12:00 PM
Funches: I personally do not believe that 'faith' even exists.

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 12:02 PM
just because noone can give proof doesn't make you correct. Apparently since you can't disprove God exist then he must by your logic. I gave you one already. There are people that believe God exists and have no doubts about it. Thats what believing is. Its the definition of the word. Its not my fault you can not comprehend that. I believe I am correct without a doubt, too bad I can't prove that too you.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 12:20 PM
Funches: I personally do not believe that 'faith' even exists. faith exist like delusion ...only in the mind and not beyond it

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 12:22 PM
I think Faith exists. I know for a fact she is a country singer.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 12:23 PM
just because noone can give proof doesn't make you correct. Apparently since you can't disprove God exist then he must by your logic. I gave you one already. There are people that believe God exists and have no doubts about it. Thats what believing is. Its the definition of the word. Its not my fault you can not comprehend that. I believe I am correct without a doubt, too bad I can't prove that too you. sorry Chazster it does make me correct ...because all you have to do is give one little tiny itsy bitsy example and you can't ....it is impossible to give an example of a religious belief that doesn't include doubt...accept this enlightenment

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 12:28 PM
the definition of believe is not only religion. And since I can't prove what a certain person believes doesn't make you correct. I did however already stated that I believed without a doubt that I was correct. And since I know whats in my head I know I am correct. Also just because you think you are correct and you don't think I can prove it still doesn't make you correct. Unless of course you believe that you and I are the only people in existence. You can not disprove that I believe without a doubt I am correct and by your logic that makes me correct which then makes me correct in the argument.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/07/08 12:36 PM
the definition of believe is not only religion. And since I can't prove what a certain person believes doesn't make you correct. I did however already stated that I believed without a doubt that I was correct. And since I know whats in my head I know I am correct. Also just because you think you are correct and you don't think I can prove it still doesn't make you correct. Unless of course you believe that you and I are the only people in existence. You can not disprove that I believe without a doubt I am correct and by your logic that makes me correct which then makes me correct in the argument. Chazster I say that it is impossible for you to give and example and the fact that you cannot give one means you are proving it to yourself....I have let you become the teacher to teach yourself the errors of your ways

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 12:40 PM
I thank you for thinking I am the fountain of all knowledge in the universe, yet I know I am not. I proved to the best of my ability I am correct and have shown the definitions of the word and how they are opposing and are not the same. Though you are not convinced by me. There are other people in this world more versed than I and I am sure one of them has the proof I lack. Just because you don't feel I have reached your burden of proof doesn't mean you are correct because someone else may have that proof you seek.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Mon 01/07/08 12:42 PM
hmmmmm I still have no doubts about my beliefs.......

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Mon 01/07/08 12:43 PM
exactly, he askes me to prove a belief but by definition a belief can not be proven. That doesnt mean there is doubt, only a lack of proof.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Mon 01/07/08 12:52 PM Edited by feralcatlady on Mon 01/07/08 01:05 PM
Which in fact depending on the person.....there is also proof.....as in my case....I have all the proof of His Divine being that I will ever need. You can't deny what is revealed....you can only share, and set by example. And no matter what love in this case funches more for searching for the truth.......For God knows that when He is asked he shall again reveil himself to all who as it of Him.