omg,, even tb can be wrong,,say it isn't so,,,,

nope, education was the field my degree was in,, not library science,

And the spin continues.



The choices that adults make contribute to their financial status.

If a single woman gives birth as a consequence of a choice that she made, and if becoming a single parent causes the woman to become financially poorer, then her choice is a contributing cause of her poorer economic status.

At times, people end up in trouble in part (at least) because of their own self-defeating behavior. It is unhelpful for people to deny the existence of self-defeating behavior.

is that the new technique? if it doesn't fit ones personal belief it must be 'spin',,,,ok,, whatever

yep, people have to be more responsible, (and numbers show that they ARE BEING MORE RESPONSIBLE)

but no one is a psychic and crap happens and neither of those things should make people stop choosing to have the children they create ( a two person decision, by the way),,,nor excuse them and pass the buck on to those parents who choose to try to ,,,,

and , individual decisions to have children, never are guaranteed,,,

many who are married when they have a child end up divorced and poorer

many who become pregnant later lose their partner to death or the partners choice to leave

many who are not married when they have children marry later on

one SNAPSHOT in time of a persons life does not make or break the poverty cycle

the poverty cycle is best addressed by addressing the ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT,, period,,,

not by continuing the lame 'blame game' of just laying it at a womans feet,,,,

You are still dancing around my point: The choices that adults make contribute to their financial status.

You're right, Dodo.

An admission to some, would feel like admitting failure as a successful, responsible parent and provider.

Must suck.

yes, and so does the ECOMOMY

Let me see if I have this straight.

The economy needs to be fixed before irresponsible adults are expected to make responsible choices?

Or, is it, fix the economy and irresponsible adults will magically start being responsible?

Nobody is denying the role that the economy plays in a person's financial situation.

What we are getting at in this thread is that some people want to blame everything but their choices for their financial situation.

yes, some people do

but when we look at poverty rates, we cant pin it on peoples 'choices' about childbirth

as out of wedlock childbirths are COMING down and the poverty rate has not,,,,,

so, while out of wedlock childbirth has and will always happen

poverty can still be attacked , even to the benefit of single parents,,,

Again, you are talking about a separate issue, and I have expressed agreement with you on that particular subject.

I aknowledge that the poverty rate amongst unwed mothers /divorced mothers/widowed mothers,,,etc,,

is higher , consistently, with the poverty rates of mothers who have a partner, AFTER the child is in the world,,,,


I also know that there exists a discrepancy between the poverty rate of wed and unwed mothers , but,,,its more devastating based upon where that discrepancy is

for instance, amongst college educated single mothers, there is an 8 percent poverty rate,,,,compared to 1 percent amongst college educated wed mothers

a discrepancy YES, but still a much more reasonable, and less devastating poverty rate, impacted by EDUCATION

focusing on the marital status , in my opinion, downplays the difference the economy and education make for EVERYONE, regardless of marital status,,,

and the talking point about rising out of wedlock RATES< gives the misleading perception of a growing irresponsibility amongst single mothers,, which is not factual at all,,,

The incredible problem of out of wedlock marriage creating a class of poverty ridden, poorly educated, crime focused individuals that have nothing to do with the economy seems to be lost to some.

What's an out-of-wedlock marriage?

I want some of what he be smoking.

tell me how, if we go from say,, 400 babies being born to unwed mother

to 200 babies being born to unwed mothers,,

we have suddenly an 'incredible' problem

yes, out of wedlock births contribute to poverty,, but out of wedlock RATES as a ratio to married births, is a totally different thing


and we are having FEWER out of wedlock babies being born,,,,,



even single mothers can have a very low poverty rate with education and living wages,,,

Something like a one-night-stand!

It was and is a big problem. If over 70% of blacks are being born out of wedlock, their future as productive citizens is not promising. The economy has nothing to do with it. Under educated, violence prone individuals have a tough go in any economy. The loss of one parent greatly reduces the ability to earn a decent family wage. The loss of a male parent in child raising greatly reduces the chance of a kid doing well later in life.

Some people raised in a single parent situation come out ok, but inner city blacks ring up frightening statistics.

the problem is not an increased ratio of out of wedlock to married couple births, BOTH GROUPS ARE HAVING FEWER CHILDREN,,



its not the ring that makes the difference, its the income,,,,

which explains how amongst EDUCATED single mothers the poverty rate is equal to that of married couples (With less education)

EDUCATION and ECONOMY will always be significant to the poverty of the citizens in a country,,,

You claiming gangs and violent ghetto rats aren't a problem?