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| Topic: Brave Student Prays in Graduation Speech | |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Thu 06/13/13 07:08 PM
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? Do you give your children unbiased information? Along with all else Have you told YOUR children that God is possibly their Creator and that the Bible may possibly be His Message to all men. That salvation may be needed for a sin-sick world? And that Jesus may be the Savior of mankind? Along with other information...unbiasedly of course. "and let them decide from there, is that that hard??" |
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AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject. its as brave as anyone 'coming out' about their sexuality, it takes bravery to risk the ridicule and controversy,,, Not in front of a room of mostly zealous Christians. And if a person came out about being gay in a room of mostly flaming gays... not much of a risk either. 
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AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject. its as brave as anyone 'coming out' about their sexuality, it takes bravery to risk the ridicule and controversy,,, Not in front of a room of mostly zealous Christians. And if a person came out about being gay in a room of mostly flaming gays... not much of a risk either. IM not in the habit of assuming what religion or sexuality people hold in a room full of people,,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 06/14/13 10:14 AM
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AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject. its as brave as anyone 'coming out' about their sexuality, it takes bravery to risk the ridicule and controversy,,, Not in front of a room of mostly zealous Christians. And if a person came out about being gay in a room of mostly flaming gays... not much of a risk either. IM not in the habit of assuming what religion or sexuality people hold in a room full of people,,,, Don't pretend to be so ignorant. You know damn well most of the people at that graduation were indoctrinated Christians. The guy did not actually break any rules and he recited a prayer to a room of mostly Christians. It is a NON STORY AND A NON ISSUE.   |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools.
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The issue of not allowing ceremonial prayer to a particular religion or God in a government or public institution or gathering has NOTHING to do with "hate" of the Christian faith or any other faith. |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The Pauline one? |
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yep,really courageous.............................
if he'd done it,say,in Saudi-Arabia,Pakistan or Iran! |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The Pauline one? Paul did not lay the foundation. The Lord God Almighty laid it; A Tried Stone/A Precious Cornerstone. |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The Pauline one? Paul did not lay the foundation. The Lord God Almighty laid it; A Tried Stone/A Precious Cornerstone. I read what you are saying, but its just words. They don't really make a lot of sense. |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The Pauline one? Paul did not lay the foundation. The Lord God Almighty laid it; A Tried Stone/A Precious Cornerstone. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? Do you give your children unbiased information? Along with all else Have you told YOUR children that God is possibly their Creator and that the Bible may possibly be His Message to all men. That salvation may be needed for a sin-sick world? And that Jesus may be the Savior of mankind? Along with other information...unbiasedly of course. "and let them decide from there, is that that hard??" To me a child should be introduced to such ideas ONLY when they are capable of understanding them. If I ever have kids, I will not brainwash them into religion otherwise. If they wish to go down that path later then fine, but I will not push one or another onto them. They should make their own choices. |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation. The issue of not allowing ceremonial prayer to a particular religion or God in a government or public institution or gathering has NOTHING to do with "hate" of the Christian faith or any other faith. Yeah really, Christians have this whole thing that any attack is personally directed at them. They need to get over themselves. No one really cares what they believe privately, they can believe the moon is made of cheese if they wanted to. That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true. Frankly as much as they persecute others they have no room to complain in the first place, because they are simply getting back what they have put out for years. Not many are gonna feel much sympathy for them when that's the case. It's like the saying goes, what goes around, what comes around. If they didn't wanna be "persecuted" they shouldn't have persecuted others. |
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To me a child should be introduced to such ideas ONLY when they are capable of understanding them. If I ever have kids, I will not brainwash them into religion otherwise. If they wish to go down that path later then fine, but I will not push one or another onto them. They should make their own choices.  this is why having children should require a license lol. you will instill in your children what you believe. if you speak english you will only teach them english. you will feed them what you eat, encourage behavior you tolerate, discourage behavior you don't. i guarantee i guarantee your views will change once you hold your son/daughter in your arms. you will want your child to excel in the world you live in, not the world you dream of (bulldog double guarantee - patent pending) |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 06/14/13 02:42 PM
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To me a child should be introduced to such ideas ONLY when they are capable of understanding them. If I ever have kids, I will not brainwash them into religion otherwise. If they wish to go down that path later then fine, but I will not push one or another onto them. They should make their own choices. this is why having children should require a license lol. you will instill in your children what you believe. if you speak english you will only teach them english. you will feed them what you eat, encourage behavior you tolerate, discourage behavior you don't. i guarantee i guarantee your views will change once you hold your son/daughter in your arms. you will want your child to excel in the world you live in, not the world you dream of You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might. And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them. I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then. |
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You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might. And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them. I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then. that was my point about being bias (we all are in different ways). you had an experience that left a bad taste in your mouth, and now you are too stubborn to have an open mind. children do need guidance and will buck no matter how right you think you are. you seem like a motivated young man, and i hope you see the good in what you experienced and try to focus on that over the bad you cling to. i don't mean to offend, and sorry for getting off topic btw i do read your posts and i know you offer some good points |
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AS Dodo_David pointed out: Since the valedictorian didn't give a planned invocation, no rule was broken. So the fact that this guy chose to trash his speech and recite a prayer did not break any rules and there is nothing really special (or brave) about what he did. It's a non-subject. its as brave as anyone 'coming out' about their sexuality, it takes bravery to risk the ridicule and controversy,,, Not in front of a room of mostly zealous Christians. And if a person came out about being gay in a room of mostly flaming gays... not much of a risk either. IM not in the habit of assuming what religion or sexuality people hold in a room full of people,,,, Don't pretend to be so ignorant. You know damn well most of the people at that graduation were indoctrinated Christians. The guy did not actually break any rules and he recited a prayer to a room of mostly Christians. It is a NON STORY AND A NON ISSUE. Im not ignorant, I know more know the religious affiliation of a room full of strangers, and in most cases religious affiliation hasnt come up with acquintances or school mates either this wasnt a CHURCH, it was a public school, environments where EVERYONE must be tolerated,, so what people are is not something that can be ASSUMED,,,, you know wht they say about assuming.... |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. that is a fallacious logic along the lines that anyone opposing 'amoral' behavior or even calling behavior wrong is christian or religious,,, the majority of americans arent gay, yet many more are becoming 'pro gay' in support of including gays in everything as a special protected class why do people have to be Christian to see the value of applying freedom of expression equally to NON CHRISTIANS ( who may be gay and 'coming out') or CHRISTIANS ( who may decide to pray out in open)....? |
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If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools. that is a fallacious logic along the lines that anyone opposing 'amoral' behavior or even calling behavior wrong is christian or religious,,, the majority of americans arent gay, yet many more are becoming 'pro gay' in support of including gays in everything as a special protected class why do people have to be Christian to see the value of applying freedom of expression equally to NON CHRISTIANS ( who may be gay and 'coming out') or CHRISTIANS ( who may decide to pray out in open)....? We are talking about conducting a public prayer in front of a group who may be of all denominations. The largest percentage of Americans are generally Christian, or claim to be. One does not have to assume this is not the case. (You continue to bring up the gay issue to a point where I am beginning to think you are obsessed with it.... it is a bad comparison!) We are NOT talking about "freedom of expression." The issue is a publicly conducted ritual prayer. What the student did was scrap his speech and recite a prayer. He probably did it as some sort of protest. He probably even planned it. BUT THE SCHOOL DID NOT. So no rule was broken. It has been pointed out that what the valedictorian did was NOT a planned public event, he did it on his own, thus the school itself is not responsible! It is also very likely that most of the people in the audience were professed Christians and applauded his little protest, just like some of the people reading this thread. I say that it was a meaningless gesture, but hey if it made him feel "brave" and feel like a hero standing up for his beliefs, well good for him. But it is a non-event and no big deal. |
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