He was correct when he said greed feed more mouths then charity.

Remember how the mayor of New York outlawed icecream with fat in it to make New Yorkers healthier?

Excellent! Couldn't have gotten the point across any better than this. I like to call it a form of child neglect. Sweeping the sex lives of our youth under the rug and not addressing/meeting them.
We take our kids to music lessons, sports leagues, church, put them in school, provide them food, shelter, clothes, let them go to place of entertainment, etc. etc. but when was the last time you as a parent provided a safer sex experience for your child? Perhaps you as a parent have swept it under the rug? Your children will hate you for it, yes hate. I did.

At least conservatives think, Libs don't, they just drink the kool-aid.

children dont need to be having sex, it is a huge responsibility not JUST an activity like going to a movie

entertainment places dont create lives or have the instance of fatal disease

food , shelter, clothes, are necessary for them to live

church also doesnt harm their health and parents still have every choice of if they go, because they are their children


I feel no need to provide any 'sex experience' for my child,, young adults ALREADY have sex education in the public schools and that doesnt seem to make things any better either

I dont disagree that education is valuable, but its only as valuable as the BALANCE in a childs life, teaching them it makes babies, may not bea determent if they have no real clue what having and caring for a baby involves, or if they know they can just use protection or have abortion to avoid the work

teaching them it is 'natural' does nothing either as kids confuse 'natural' to 'without consequence'

pooping is NATURAL, sleeping is NATURAL, eating is NATURAL,, having sex is a different kind of natural because it has no real individual necessity, especially in a childs life


the problem is in the CASUAL nature society discusses and portrays sex, and the disconnect so many families have from their kids in the first place,, until that changes, 'children' will continue taking the risks to have it.....and to 'belong' and feel connected

no history? what was barry's first EO? to suppress his records!

wonder why that was...

lol, because the previous EO regarding records, gave presidents UNLIMITED Time to review records before releasing them

this EO cut the time to 30 days

Behold, another urban legend being promoted.

I still think a lot of that though is just out of rebellion......if you're constantly being told, no, no, no, without much reason why, how are you going to react? You're going to want whatever you're told you can't have more. That's human nature. If kids had an open dialogue with their parents, if parents would actually LISTEN to their kids and try to UNDERSTAND where they are coming from on things, instead of just trying to dictate fully to them everything they do.....I don't think you'd have this problem I truly don't. The parents I think in their "do as I say because I say so" attitude cause the disconnect more than the kids do. Parents need to TALK to their kids more not just rule with an iron fist all the time. Tell them WHY you feel how you do on something, and try to understand WHY they feel how they do, instead of just thumbing your nose for one reason or another. I think you'd have much better relationships that way.

Whether you think a child needs sex or not....children are curious by nature, and as they become preteens and teens, they are going to become sexually curious as their bodies start to change and puberty sets in. That's just a fact of life, and you can't tell me any different, we've ALL gone through that. It amazes me sometimes how soon we forget what it was like to be their age when we become parents. Kids need someone to talk to at that time about what is going on, NOT shame for it as religion tends to teach and in ways society itself does.

And it doesn't even necessarily have to be about sex strictly, it could even be about masturbation. Growing up I was never told anything about sex beyond "don't do it, this is bad, dirty, wrong", but my drive was sky high from about 10 years old on.....so I'd masturbate in secret, this went on for YEARS, and it messed with my mind terribly! I had shame and guilt for the longest time, and it was only when I understood these were natural feelings to have that all that went away. Kids need EDUCATION about what is going on, not shaming.

Also, who said that the education wouldn't come without teaching about consequences? That's part of the reason the education is needed in the first place! To teach responsibility and how to properly manage everything going on in a teenagers body, to manage their sexual desires so they DON'T have kids they aren't prepared for, so they DON'T have to be faced with abortions, so they DON'T come away with STD's, and so on and so forth.

When I speak of sex being a natural thing.......I am speaking of the DESIRE for sex, not the acting out of it as a whole. No one is saying a kid or teen should be doing it without knowing the consequences, on the contrary they SHOULD be educated about them so they can make smart choices.

Empower the kids to take control of what is going on inside them, don't try to control it completely, because as I say they still are gonna have the desire, they'll just find other ways to express it away from you. Would you rather your kid explore blindly or be able to know how to be responsible about it all? Teaching complete abstaining isn't practical, or at least in the way we teach it now. It doesn't work, and in the end you do more harm to the kid than you do protect him or her, because they learn everything totally on their own without a place to go to talk about it. Give them some kind of compass, don't leave them with nothing in effect.

You mention sex education in the schools not working.......I think this is for two reasons, number one they are not necessarily taught about the consequences of sex as I speak of here, number two......a child isn't gonna have the respect of someone in school as much as they could of a parent who took the time to talk to them. Both of these things a parent could rectify.....teach them responsibility.....and give them a place to go to that they trust. You do that and I really do think a lot of the issues you see going on would change.

I will say it again, in trying to protect our kids, I think we do more harm than good in the end, and push them away more than towards us. Sometimes being a dictator isn't what the child needs.....you may be their parent, but they need to be understood and listened to as much as you wanna be to them. For a good relationship to be established that communication line needs to be open both ways, not at just one.

It's why in fact I don't think a child should be forced into a church by a parent either, sure you can teach em morality, not to hurt others, be good to people, etc etc, but they should have the choice whether they want to be a part of your belief system or not, not have it just put on them because it's what you believe in. They are individuals as much as you are, and should be treated with at least some respect for that. Trying to push what you hold true for yourself on them will only make them resent you, I know I resent my dad's family for pushing their religion onto me....

So bottom line.......TALK to your kids, LISTEN to them as opposed to just controlling. You'll have a much better relationship to them then I think and will do more to keep them safe than if they can't tell you anything for fear of what you'll say about it.

Every one is different


I know the two consistent rules/philosophies my parents taught me from a young age are

1. Every action in life is a choice
2. Every choice in life has a consequence


for me, religion reinforced those concepts, we went with the family up until teen years when we each had the choice of continuing to go or not,,,


too many kids are being made to believe their choices shouldnt have consequences as long as they are not 'hurting' anyone,,, too many people have a misconception about life that they have no choices or they are hardwired toward certain behavior or actions,,,,

some choices are harder than others and some times the choices available arent much,, but its always a choice we are making


sex is a choice, and it has real consequences,,, we dont do enough to counter the abundance of sexual imagery and messages our children are inundated with with discussion about the real CONSEQUENCES of the choice to have sex,,,,

That's fine, FOR YOU, but it's not gonna work that way for everyone. If it works for you that's great, but it shouldn't be treated as an absolute deal, others may find other paths that suit them better. You said it yourself everyone is different.

And that's good that you had the choice to keep going or not, but really I think that a child shouldn't be exposed to that type of thing until they are of an age where they can fully comprehend what they are being told. By the time they get to a point where they can make a choice, it's not as informed a choice as it could be, because they grew up in it and it formed how they thought before they even knew what they were learning. They grow up with that reality, and it's harder to break from it if they decided they wanted to. That's not even including the fact that in a lot of religious families, don't know about yours but was the case in mine anyway, there's a stigma to leaving the church as well. So kids are faced with a pressure to conform to everyone else in addition to really having a lack of an informed choice as they never were taught anything different. It's just not a good thing in either instance.

So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.



I agree with that, which is again where the parents need to come in. The parents need to be educating their kids about things like this, not just telling them no without really telling them why. As I say, start a dialogue about things, it will help them and you both. Shoving it under the rug and expecting them to ignore things like they aren't there hasn't done any good for anyone, child or parent alike. It's time for a different approach and take off the kid gloves with something like this, and frankly alcohol too honestly, because the approach we take to both now doesn't work.

And as for choices.....yes we always have choices to make and they all have consequences good or bad. That said, particularly sexual speaking but in other ways too I suppose, we all have different desires/feelings/needs..and we don't necessarily have full control over those at the base level. How we handle them and react to them maybe yes, but they will always be there for people regardless, those things we don't really choose as much as they choose us. You can't always control who you fall in love with or even lust for.....how you respond to those feelings you can, but not the base feeling in a lot of cases. That's where I'd draw the line at choices, can choose how we act, but not always what we think.

Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings.

I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way.

I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that.

You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so.

You would be wrong. The state or federal government can't control what parents teach their children. When children become adults they can choose what they want. Children are not machines. You can not mold them into something you want. They have free will and make their own decisions. You can only guide them.

I agree with that last part, BUT don't even try and tell me the religious right doesn't try to mold kids into their image......cause they damn well do and I don't like it. It's wrong to me to force a belief system on them before they can choose it on their own. Teach them basic morals, guide them as they grow, fine, but when you start telling them that such and such is the truth you must believe, teaching them to judge based on it, etc etc....that's where you cross a line. Maybe I'm biased cause of my own experiences, but every child should be given the chance to think for themselves without something like religion influencing it.

Dude parents try to mold their kids into theor own image. Vegans do it athiests do it athletes do it. Its not only religion.

Maybe, but I still don't like it, particularly when it comes to spiritual belief.....other things such as diets and exercise I can understand a bit more depending on how far they are going, but spiritually speaking it should be a personal thing, not something forced onto them by someone else before they really even know anything about it.

Personally, I see a HUGE difference between passing on religious teachings and passing on lifestyle choices (diet, profession, etc.) The big difference being an afterlife. Not all children are going to be able to comprehend religion and its multi-faceted components. Athletes and vegans don't make their decisions based on an understanding they may end up in hell. It's different with religious values.

Yes, a perfect world would allow parents to mold their offspring into their own like image, but it seems somewhat morally corrupt to me.

I certainly understand Kleisto's take on this, in which every child has a voice and a like mind to make their own decisions (when capable, of course). But then again we don't live in a perfect world, so you gotta make the best of a blurry situation.

But like Chaz said, parents are there to "guide" their children, and not live their lifes for them.

Right, problem is a lot don't seem to understand the difference between the two, especially in a religious setting.

And I agree with you, I also think that diets, lifestyle choices, etc and religion are not the same here. Yes some can still take those things too far in the raising of a child, so it can create a similar problem but generally speaking it isn't the same type of thing.

There's no fear involved over doing or not doing one thing or another like you see in religion and as you say religion can be quite a bit more complex. It's a whole separate deal those things.

how many people have 'raised' children? how many understand they have developmental stages? how many understand that a religious environment is no different than a school environment?

to say that its abusive to guide a child in a religious setting is illogical stereotyping,, ABUSE Is ABUSE,, thats it

it is no more abusive to teach them from a young age, as long as you are aware of their developmental stages,, about religion, than it is to teach them about history, or about love of country, or any other value parents wish to teach their children

there is no way to just let them sit , eat , and sleep until puberty and then HOPE you can start guiding them then

the time parents GUIDE their children in the path they wish them to follow is from birth,, and from THAT point children grow into young adults who are also influenced by many other sources and can decide for themself what works for them,,,,