Get over my abuse??? Why should I have to "get over it"? Because what I say is uncomfortable to those in that bubble or offends them? **** that! I don't have to "get over" anything if I don't want to, if I wanna be upset and speak out, I WILL do just that I don't give a damn whether you or anyone else likes it or not!

The very fact that you said that offends me greatly........and if you ask me is damn insensitive to what I have gone through. You don't just tell someone who was abused, be it mentally, physically, or both to just "get over it". How dare you minimize what I dealt with like that?! You ought to be ashamed! I wouldn't tell you to just get over a rape for example......that's something you just don't do. You wanna talk about morality, well here's a place YOU need to learn something!

What I went through had a HUGE impact on how I grew up, that's not something I can ever "get over" it will ALWAYS be a part of me. It shaped me then, and it shapes me even more now. Time may make it easier, but if I can prevent ANYONE from going through what I did in my teen years and even past them, you can be sure I will do all I can to do it. Whether it ruffles the feathers of the establishment or not I could care less...it's just the right thing to do. If can protect even one person from that experience, it's worth doing. If for no other reason than this......I will never "get over" my abuse, it will always play a role in my life in some capacity, always.

As for the rest, yeah I think you did, you made a DEFINITE distinction between believers and non believers, placing yourself as more in tune with your spirit than those who don't believe as you do simply because they don't. That is the height of arrogance to me. They don't have to think just as you do to have some spiritual life to them, hell they could not believe at all and still have some. It is NOT an absolute all or nothing deal as you make it out to be. No matter your intention, you clearly placed non believers in one class of people and believers in others even if you didn't outright say it.

'everyone' doesnt know anything,,,,different people believe and 'know' different things

and I am in the same category, I could be wrong about any number of things, I could actually be someones computer program and not human at all,, but I still have a foundational belief that I am a human that I exist believing to be the truth

and, if it is true, I AM RIGHT,, and if its not,, I will never know,,, but RIGHT will still be RIGHT,,,,

and there ya have it,, we all have our thing

I shouldnt have to 'get over' my religious beliefs or how I choose to raise my children,,,

how dare you minimize and attack how people choose to instill values into their kids?


everyone has gone through terrible things, not everyone uses them in the same manner,, thats all I will say about that,,




we all feel we should be able to believe and feel whatever we want to feel and believe,, and we should

once we are adults,,,,so be offended, it is your right,, and speak out, it is your right

as it is mine to be offended at the suggestion that religion is abusive and to speak out to refute such nonsense,,,

No everyone doesn't....BUT I believe we ALL have innately in our conscience an understanding of what right and wrong is, from birth pretty much. Whether we act according to it is another matter, but we all have it. That's regardless of any other perceptions around us, other beliefs that may shape us differently.

And at least you admit you could be wrong, I wish you'd live more according to that rather than try to push certain absolutes in your own mind onto people though.....as you say right will still be right no matter what. That's the truest statement I've heard you say.

Not really nonsense.....and I will ALWAYS speak out against it and against it being shoved onto kids before they know better. If that offends you so be it, I don't care really, I'll say it anyway. And you are free to believe anything you want even if it is nonsenscial and even downright harmful, no one can take that away from you, but just don't expect everyone else to always tolerate it without a pushback......

if you want to keep believing RELIGION hurt you instead of people,, feel free

but dont always expect christians to just pity you and not correct you,,,,

I wish you'd live more according to that rather than try to push certain absolutes in your own mind onto people

They COMBINED did, because without the religion, there would have been no forcing of beliefs onto me like that, how I was raised WAS based on the religious belief, you cannot separate them. You can keep your god damn pious "correction" bs, I know what happened to me, no matter what any of you still in the bubble think. You can think I am wrong all you want, think I am misguided, left the faith or whatever else, I KNOW my story more than you ever could.

Aren't you doing the same thing by insisting that it is abusive for parents to give their minor children a religious upbringing?

That claim may be an absolute in your own mind but not an absolute to others.

YOU cannot seperate them, abusive personalities will force beliefs regardless of what those beliefs are

I dont know your story, you are right, but I know you walk through life with a serious chip on your shoulder because of what someone did to you,, and instead of facing the people and what was going on inside of THEM To allow them to do it to you, you spread your pain across a whole group of individuals through hateful accusation and stereotyping,,,


I hope you heal, but I still will not stop correcting this faux vilain you have created in 'religion'

To a point but you CANNOT sit there and tell me that these things don't encourage control and regulation. Most churches and faiths in Christianity are based on that idea......you either toe the line or you are outcast, and there's no inbetween. They ENCOURAGE this type of thing. Will some abuse regardless? Maybe, but you cannot tell me that these beliefs don't lend itself to that type of absolute, iron fist control, because they do.

It may seem like I am hatefully accusing and stereotyping, but unless you can experience this from my lens, you can never understand the difference between what you believe and the reality of what that system of belief does. People will abuse yes, but RELIGION does give them an easy way to do it.

yes, and it also gives them an easy way to be charitable, to be neighborly, to be loving, or any number of positive attributes enforced in church,,,,

How many actually live up to that though vs. how many use it to judge? And even with the good deeds that can come from it, it doesn't make the meat of what is taught in it any less destructive or divisive to those who choose to think different from them.

On top of that, you don't need a church or a religion to do those things, and it says something about you if you DO need them IMO. You can just as easily do all of those things outside a church (maybe even BETTER than if you're in it for some), as you can in one, you don't need it to do any of that.

I think that everyone here would benefit from reading a book titled "Faith That Hurts, Faith That Heals".

Yes, some people have been abused while participating in church activities as children. That abuse leaves them distrusting churches, and you really cannot "correct" them just by lecturing them. You have to get to know their personal stories and then help them work through their emotional pain that resulted from the abuse. Telling victims of religious abuse not to feel a certain way just won't work.

I agree. Victims of abuse have to face their abusers, work through their own pain and their own circumstances so they can heal and move on.

my point in saying 'get over abuse' was to hold a mirror to the statement that religious should 'get over' ourselves,,,

Sometimes the "eye for an eye" approach is totally unhelpful, even when you are just having a debate on the Internet. Victims of religious abuse need an extra measure of grace from the Christian community. The Golden Rule says "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you", not "Do unto others what they have done unto you."

sometimes,, and sometimes it helps to hold a mirror up to people so they can see their own behavior,,,,,

Not in this case. I realize that you mean well, but your approach isn't working. All it does is cause the other person to remain on the defensive.

There is a scene in the movie Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country that speaks to this issue. In the scene, it appears as if a Klingon ship is about to attack the U.S.S. Enterprise at close range. Chekov keeps asking Captain Kirk, "Shields, Captain?" Captain Kirk doesn't order shields to be raised, leaving the Enterprise vulnerable to attack. Instead, Kirk tells Uhura to contact the Klingon ship to tell it that Kirk was going over to it unarmed.

Kirk's action diffused a hostile situation so that neither ship fired its weapons at the other.

When dealing with the victim of religious abuse, we need to do what we can to diffuse hostility.

each situation is different, some victims will be hostile UNTIL they are shown how similar their behavior is to that they are complaining about,,,,