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| Topic: Rush Limbaugh says are Country is Dieing | |
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Dude parents try to mold their kids into theor own image. Vegans do it athiests do it athletes do it. Its not only religion. Maybe, but I still don't like it, particularly when it comes to spiritual belief.....other things such as diets and exercise I can understand a bit more depending on how far they are going, but spiritually speaking it should be a personal thing, not something forced onto them by someone else before they really even know anything about it. Yes, a perfect world would allow parents to mold their offspring into their own like image, but it seems somewhat morally corrupt to me. I certainly understand Kleisto's take on this, in which every child has a voice and a like mind to make their own decisions (when capable, of course). But then again we don't live in a perfect world, so you gotta make the best of a blurry situation. But like Chaz said, parents are there to "guide" their children, and not live their lifes for them. how many people have 'raised' children? how many understand they have developmental stages? how many understand that a religious environment is no different than a school environment? to say that its abusive to guide a child in a religious setting is illogical stereotyping,, ABUSE Is ABUSE,, thats it it is no more abusive to teach them from a young age, as long as you are aware of their developmental stages,, about religion, than it is to teach them about history, or about love of country, or any other value parents wish to teach their children there is no way to just let them sit , eat , and sleep until puberty and then HOPE you can start guiding them then the time parents GUIDE their children in the path they wish them to follow is from birth,, and from THAT point children grow into young adults who are also influenced by many other sources and can decide for themself what works for them,,,, The one thing you're right on is that a religious environment is no different than a school environment. That is to say they BOTH brainwash people and teach little more than obedience to what they say with little to no true thinking for oneself allowed if it goes against it. So you are quite right there...... And as far as the abuse thing being illogical I don't think it is at all. To tell a kid that God expects this this and this out of you, and if you don't do those things or if you do something else God disapproves of, he won't be pleased with you at the very least, I believe that is very much abuse of the mental variety, no matter how good intentioned you may be. You know what they say about that road to hell...... Call it extreme if you wish I don't care frankly, I cannot in good conscience condone that type of garbage pushed onto an innocent child whose mind is still forming. That type of thing screwed up my mine for years, be damned if I'm gonna sit tightlipped while it happens to others. Further. what one teaches in religion is FAR different from teaching history or love of country (though love of country comes close) as in few other places is there that some fear attached to decision making and belief sets. Religion holds that attachment moreso than the others do, no matter how much you may wanna argue that. It's on a whole other level from other things you teach because you can't deviate without punishment according to it. And no one is saying you can't or shouldn't guide your children in one way or another as you grow, all kids need that to some degree, but you can guide WITHOUT bringing in your own personal bias into that. Just cause YOU believe one thing doesn't mean they should have to or be subjected to it if they don't want it. You can separate the two and I think people should.....let em find their own paths, be there for them but don't force them. Not that hard, it's really not, just have to let go of your own ego to make them what you want them to be to let them become who they want to be in their own way. I really think parents would have much better relationships to their kids if they learned how to do that.....to let go of trying to control so much. But.....that's just me. |
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Dude parents try to mold their kids into theor own image. Vegans do it athiests do it athletes do it. Its not only religion. Maybe, but I still don't like it, particularly when it comes to spiritual belief.....other things such as diets and exercise I can understand a bit more depending on how far they are going, but spiritually speaking it should be a personal thing, not something forced onto them by someone else before they really even know anything about it. Yes, a perfect world would allow parents to mold their offspring into their own like image, but it seems somewhat morally corrupt to me. I certainly understand Kleisto's take on this, in which every child has a voice and a like mind to make their own decisions (when capable, of course). But then again we don't live in a perfect world, so you gotta make the best of a blurry situation. But like Chaz said, parents are there to "guide" their children, and not live their lifes for them. how many people have 'raised' children? how many understand they have developmental stages? how many understand that a religious environment is no different than a school environment? to say that its abusive to guide a child in a religious setting is illogical stereotyping,, ABUSE Is ABUSE,, thats it it is no more abusive to teach them from a young age, as long as you are aware of their developmental stages,, about religion, than it is to teach them about history, or about love of country, or any other value parents wish to teach their children there is no way to just let them sit , eat , and sleep until puberty and then HOPE you can start guiding them then the time parents GUIDE their children in the path they wish them to follow is from birth,, and from THAT point children grow into young adults who are also influenced by many other sources and can decide for themself what works for them,,,, The one thing you're right on is that a religious environment is no different than a school environment. That is to say they BOTH brainwash people and teach little more than obedience to what they say with little to no true thinking for oneself allowed if it goes against it. So you are quite right there...... And as far as the abuse thing being illogical I don't think it is at all. To tell a kid that God expects this this and this out of you, and if you don't do those things or if you do something else God disapproves of, he won't be pleased with you at the very least, I believe that is very much abuse of the mental variety, no matter how good intentioned you may be. You know what they say about that road to hell...... Call it extreme if you wish I don't care frankly, I cannot in good conscience condone that type of garbage pushed onto an innocent child whose mind is still forming. That type of thing screwed up my mine for years, be damned if I'm gonna sit tightlipped while it happens to others. Further. what one teaches in religion is FAR different from teaching history or love of country (though love of country comes close) as in few other places is there that some fear attached to decision making and belief sets. Religion holds that attachment moreso than the others do, no matter how much you may wanna argue that. It's on a whole other level from other things you teach because you can't deviate without punishment according to it. And no one is saying you can't or shouldn't guide your children in one way or another as you grow, all kids need that to some degree, but you can guide WITHOUT bringing in your own personal bias into that. Just cause YOU believe one thing doesn't mean they should have to or be subjected to it if they don't want it. You can separate the two and I think people should.....let em find their own paths, be there for them but don't force them. Not that hard, it's really not, just have to let go of your own ego to make them what you want them to be to let them become who they want to be in their own way. I really think parents would have much better relationships to their kids if they learned how to do that.....to let go of trying to control so much. But.....that's just me. 
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Dude parents try to mold their kids into theor own image. Vegans do it athiests do it athletes do it. Its not only religion. Maybe, but I still don't like it, particularly when it comes to spiritual belief.....other things such as diets and exercise I can understand a bit more depending on how far they are going, but spiritually speaking it should be a personal thing, not something forced onto them by someone else before they really even know anything about it. Yes, a perfect world would allow parents to mold their offspring into their own like image, but it seems somewhat morally corrupt to me. I certainly understand Kleisto's take on this, in which every child has a voice and a like mind to make their own decisions (when capable, of course). But then again we don't live in a perfect world, so you gotta make the best of a blurry situation. But like Chaz said, parents are there to "guide" their children, and not live their lifes for them. how many people have 'raised' children? how many understand they have developmental stages? how many understand that a religious environment is no different than a school environment? to say that its abusive to guide a child in a religious setting is illogical stereotyping,, ABUSE Is ABUSE,, thats it it is no more abusive to teach them from a young age, as long as you are aware of their developmental stages,, about religion, than it is to teach them about history, or about love of country, or any other value parents wish to teach their children there is no way to just let them sit , eat , and sleep until puberty and then HOPE you can start guiding them then the time parents GUIDE their children in the path they wish them to follow is from birth,, and from THAT point children grow into young adults who are also influenced by many other sources and can decide for themself what works for them,,,, The one thing you're right on is that a religious environment is no different than a school environment. That is to say they BOTH brainwash people and teach little more than obedience to what they say with little to no true thinking for oneself allowed if it goes against it. So you are quite right there...... And as far as the abuse thing being illogical I don't think it is at all. To tell a kid that God expects this this and this out of you, and if you don't do those things or if you do something else God disapproves of, he won't be pleased with you at the very least, I believe that is very much abuse of the mental variety, no matter how good intentioned you may be. You know what they say about that road to hell...... Call it extreme if you wish I don't care frankly, I cannot in good conscience condone that type of garbage pushed onto an innocent child whose mind is still forming. That type of thing screwed up my mine for years, be damned if I'm gonna sit tightlipped while it happens to others. Further. what one teaches in religion is FAR different from teaching history or love of country (though love of country comes close) as in few other places is there that some fear attached to decision making and belief sets. Religion holds that attachment moreso than the others do, no matter how much you may wanna argue that. It's on a whole other level from other things you teach because you can't deviate without punishment according to it. And no one is saying you can't or shouldn't guide your children in one way or another as you grow, all kids need that to some degree, but you can guide WITHOUT bringing in your own personal bias into that. Just cause YOU believe one thing doesn't mean they should have to or be subjected to it if they don't want it. You can separate the two and I think people should.....let em find their own paths, be there for them but don't force them. Not that hard, it's really not, just have to let go of your own ego to make them what you want them to be to let them become who they want to be in their own way. I really think parents would have much better relationships to their kids if they learned how to do that.....to let go of trying to control so much. But.....that's just me.
what exactly do you mean by that? non-religious? |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, it is not abusive to counter all the 'subjective right and wrong' crap being fed to kids through entitlement and unrealistic expecations for them to make decisions at points in their life where their DEVELOPMENT does not enable them to do so (Thats why kids have parents and arent just hatched and left to 'find their path') so, Im glad I was 'abused' by parents who cared enough to instill the morals they did in me via example and church, as opposed to just letting my childlike brain and the world do it for me,,,,, |
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I'm trying to figure out how a promotion of sexual activity pertains to Rush Limbaugh. If Limbaugh isn't the topic of this thread, then why is his name used in this thread's title?
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, it is not abusive to counter all the 'subjective right and wrong' crap being fed to kids through entitlement and unrealistic expecations for them to make decisions at points in their life where their DEVELOPMENT does not enable them to do so (Thats why kids have parents and arent just hatched and left to 'find their path') so, Im glad I was 'abused' by parents who cared enough to instill the morals they did in me via example and church, as opposed to just letting my childlike brain and the world do it for me,,,,, They say spanking the children does not work, it was the only thing that worked on me, but then I had parents that love me and spent time with me playing. Now different children react differently to punishment and reward. Restriction and times outs never worked because I have an active imagination and could daydream. So often I did the rain dance around mom. 
Now about little over 10 years ago, I had a friend that came from an abusive type home with two younger siblings. When I would play with them and they started to hit and misbehave, I would tell them I would stop playing with them if they don’t stop and they would stop. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 04/09/13 12:43 PM
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, it is not abusive to counter all the 'subjective right and wrong' crap being fed to kids through entitlement and unrealistic expecations for them to make decisions at points in their life where their DEVELOPMENT does not enable them to do so (Thats why kids have parents and arent just hatched and left to 'find their path') so, Im glad I was 'abused' by parents who cared enough to instill the morals they did in me via example and church, as opposed to just letting my childlike brain and the world do it for me,,,,, They say spanking the children does not work, it was the only thing that worked on me, but then I had parents that love me and spent time with me playing. Now different children react differently to punishment and reward. Restriction and times outs never worked because I have an active imagination and could daydream. So often I did the rain dance around mom.
Now about little over 10 years ago, I had a friend that came from an abusive type home with two younger siblings. When I would play with them and they started to hit and misbehave, I would tell them I would stop playing with them if they don’t stop and they would stop. exatly,, children need a BALANCE< whenever they have too much or too little of any one thing,, it can impact them in a negative way too many restrictions, or too many privileges, too many responsibilities, too much attention or too little attention parenting isnt easy, its a very complex job that doesnt hinge on any one thing but on the TOTALITY of all things,,,, |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 04/09/13 03:10 PM
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 04/09/13 05:25 PM
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative |
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Edited by
Kleisto
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Tue 04/09/13 06:10 PM
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. You don't need a book, a preacher or a religion to tell you those things are wrong, we ALL know it. It really IS that simple, everything else is just man trying to control behavior, that's all it is. And how the hell do you KNOW what is right for someone's spirit??? Because a pastor said it, because the Bible said it, because "God" tells you??? Give me a damn break! The world is so much bigger than that religious bubble.....so much bigger. I don't care what authority you think tells you the truth, it doesn't make it so by default. Love how you put yourself so far above the non religious people too at the end, as if you're so much damn better than we are because you have "Jesus" in your life. Yeah I'm sure he'd be so proud of you.....for thumbing your nose down at others who don't think like you do like you basically just did..... 
Get over yourself, your beliefs don't make you some special chosen person sorry to say..... |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. everyone doesnt know right from wrong, people know what they grow up with and PLENTY of people dont know wrong if its what has been normal in their own life from a young age its one of the prerequisites they use in criminal law,, if one KNOWS right from wrong it is complicated BECAUSE of how different a variety of experiences everyone can have that molds what they THINK is right and wrong,,, there is much more 'wrong' than stealing, killing,, 'harming',,, I cant go into everyones mind to know what has been molded as wrong or right,, but I know not everyones experiences has lead them to the truth children who grow up to hate muslims,, you dont think they think thats normal when they become adults? that they dont think its 'right'? I could give a million examples, people are the sum total of their experiences in life and so is their understanding or belief of what is normal/abnormal , right/wrong,,,etc,,, |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. You don't need a book, a preacher or a religion to tell you those things are wrong, we ALL know it. It really IS that simple, everything else is just man trying to control behavior, that's all it is. And how the hell do you KNOW what is right for someone's spirit??? Because a pastor said it, because the Bible said it, because "God" tells you??? Give me a damn break! The world is so much bigger than that religious bubble.....so much bigger. I don't care what authority you think tells you the truth, it doesn't make it so by default. Love how you put yourself so far above the non religious people too at the end, as if you're so much damn better than we are because you have "Jesus" in your life. Yeah I'm sure he'd be so proud of you.....for thumbing your nose down at others who don't think like you do like you basically just did.....
Get over yourself, your beliefs don't make you some special chosen person sorry to say..... get over your abuse,, not everyone experienced that merely by going to church with their families,,, I didnt thumb my nose, try reading comprehension for once instead of immediate defensiveness I said the non religious CAN be concerned with the mere physical, as in it is quite possible they dont believe in anything OTHER Than the physical and tangible religious, by definition, believe in something beyond the tangible, so arent MERELY concerned with the physical,,, |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. You don't need a book, a preacher or a religion to tell you those things are wrong, we ALL know it. It really IS that simple, everything else is just man trying to control behavior, that's all it is. And how the hell do you KNOW what is right for someone's spirit??? Because a pastor said it, because the Bible said it, because "God" tells you??? Give me a damn break! The world is so much bigger than that religious bubble.....so much bigger. I don't care what authority you think tells you the truth, it doesn't make it so by default. Love how you put yourself so far above the non religious people too at the end, as if you're so much damn better than we are because you have "Jesus" in your life. Yeah I'm sure he'd be so proud of you.....for thumbing your nose down at others who don't think like you do like you basically just did.....
Get over yourself, your beliefs don't make you some special chosen person sorry to say..... get over your abuse,, not everyone experienced that merely by going to church with their families,,, I didnt thumb my nose, try reading comprehension for once instead of immediate defensiveness I said the non religious CAN be concerned with the mere physical, as in it is quite possible they dont believe in anything OTHER Than the physical and tangible religious, by definition, believe in something beyond the tangible, so arent MERELY concerned with the physical,,, |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. everyone doesnt know right from wrong, people know what they grow up with and PLENTY of people dont know wrong if its what has been normal in their own life from a young age its one of the prerequisites they use in criminal law,, if one KNOWS right from wrong it is complicated BECAUSE of how different a variety of experiences everyone can have that molds what they THINK is right and wrong,,, there is much more 'wrong' than stealing, killing,, 'harming',,, I cant go into everyones mind to know what has been molded as wrong or right,, but I know not everyones experiences has lead them to the truth children who grow up to hate muslims,, you dont think they think thats normal when they become adults? that they dont think its 'right'? I could give a million examples, people are the sum total of their experiences in life and so is their understanding or belief of what is normal/abnormal , right/wrong,,,etc,,, You can place yourself in that very same category you know.....just because you grew up thinking something is "right" or "wrong" doesn't mean it is. Just saying...... And all those things are based on what they grew up in, doesn't mean it's actually right or wrong. ACTUAL right or wrong EVERYONE knows no matter what else they may "perceive" as such. |
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So yeah I'd keep the church and religious stuff for the adults and those who can grasp it, let the kids be kids for a while is how I see it. They can decide on what path they choose when they are old enough.
Parents have every right to teach their kids about what is moral and what isn't, even if the standard of morality embraced by parents is expressed in religious teachings. I tend to disagree, I don't think a parent has the right to mold a child's mind one way or the other in the religious sense or even some others, but moreso in that way. I think it's borderline child abuse to some degree actually, and I know that is controversial to say but I just don't think a child should be subjected to religious brainwashing by a parent like that. You can teach them morals WITHOUT teaching them absolutes in terms of how to think or what to believe. They should be allowed to decide that on their own when they are capable of doing so. Problem to many of the parents are not teaching their kids morals when they are young and when they become a teen, the parent cannot control them. As my mom says, you have to start while they are in the crib. thats one problem, people think morals arent absolute but yes, if its wrong, its wrong,, and if its right its right,, But WHO is defining that morality? Who exactly are WE to define personal behaviors as right or wrong? Because a book or a politician outlaws it it is automatically the gospel? Bull! I don't think anyone is going to sit here and say that there aren't certain moral absolutes. The problem is......we have created absolutes that really have no basis in reality simply because others have told us they are right or wrong, such as with homosexuality among other things. The ONLY moral absolutes that really need exist are don't harm another person/step over their rights to life, liberty and happiness, and don't harm yourself. Anything else......is relative to the person, no matter what any politician, or any church may say different. We need to get off our damn high horses and stop trying to push our PERSONAL morality onto people be them kids or adults alike, and learn to live and let live. If something isn't for you, or doesn't work for you, then fine don't do it. But just because someone else chooses to, doesn't make them automatically wrong. Everyone is different, something you again said yourself.......or is everyone supposed to be the same? Can't be both either we're all different, or we're not. there is a difference between something not being our taste as in 'not right for us' and something being morally right if it is morally right, it makes no difference who is doing it there is no such thing as it would be ok for me to do it but not someone else(morally) also , on the flip, no such thing as it not being ok for me to do but being fine for someone else (morally) english language is confusing, and people toss around the word 'right' far too often without but when it comes to MORALS,, yes, they are absolute,,,even though we wont all agree on what they are,, meaning we wont all be right If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows! Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior. THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is. the same way a tomato can be a fruit even though some people think its a vegetable it is what it is,, even if not everyone understands what it is,,, and teaching children what is right and wrong are not the only lessons parents are there for,, its also about whats healthy and not healthy, and church helps reinforce things that are not spiritually or physically healthy,,,,,even though technology continues to try its best to eliminate the quite natural PHYSICAL consequences to those unhealthy things,,,we can do it without those EXTRA helps by making better choices in the first place thats what spiritual/religious 'right' deals with, what is the right thing for our bodies, AND our spirits, the non religious can be strictly concerned with the flesh,, and thats their perogative It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. everyone doesnt know right from wrong, people know what they grow up with and PLENTY of people dont know wrong if its what has been normal in their own life from a young age its one of the prerequisites they use in criminal law,, if one KNOWS right from wrong it is complicated BECAUSE of how different a variety of experiences everyone can have that molds what they THINK is right and wrong,,, there is much more 'wrong' than stealing, killing,, 'harming',,, I cant go into everyones mind to know what has been molded as wrong or right,, but I know not everyones experiences has lead them to the truth children who grow up to hate muslims,, you dont think they think thats normal when they become adults? that they dont think its 'right'? I could give a million examples, people are the sum total of their experiences in life and so is their understanding or belief of what is normal/abnormal , right/wrong,,,etc,,, You can place yourself in that very same category you know.....just because you grew up thinking something is "right" or "wrong" doesn't mean it is. Just saying...... And all those things are based on what they grew up in, doesn't mean it's actually right or wrong. ACTUAL right or wrong EVERYONE knows no matter what else they may "perceive" as such. keep telling yourself that,,,'everyone' doesnt know anything,,,,different people believe and 'know' different things and I am in the same category, I could be wrong about any number of things, I could actually be someones computer program and not human at all,, but I still have a foundational belief that I am a human that I exist believing to be the truth and, if it is true, I AM RIGHT,, and if its not,, I will never know,,, but RIGHT will still be RIGHT,,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 04/09/13 06:35 PM
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It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. You don't need a book, a preacher or a religion to tell you those things are wrong, we ALL know it. It really IS that simple, everything else is just man trying to control behavior, that's all it is. And how the hell do you KNOW what is right for someone's spirit??? Because a pastor said it, because the Bible said it, because "God" tells you??? Give me a damn break! The world is so much bigger than that religious bubble.....so much bigger. I don't care what authority you think tells you the truth, it doesn't make it so by default. Love how you put yourself so far above the non religious people too at the end, as if you're so much damn better than we are because you have "Jesus" in your life. Yeah I'm sure he'd be so proud of you.....for thumbing your nose down at others who don't think like you do like you basically just did.....
Get over yourself, your beliefs don't make you some special chosen person sorry to say..... get over your abuse,, not everyone experienced that merely by going to church with their families,,, I didnt thumb my nose, try reading comprehension for once instead of immediate defensiveness I said the non religious CAN be concerned with the mere physical, as in it is quite possible they dont believe in anything OTHER Than the physical and tangible religious, by definition, believe in something beyond the tangible, so arent MERELY concerned with the physical,,, Get over my abuse??? Why should I have to "get over it"? Because what I say is uncomfortable to those in that bubble or offends them? **** that! I don't have to "get over" anything if I don't want to, if I wanna be upset and speak out, I WILL do just that I don't give a damn whether you or anyone else likes it or not! The very fact that you said that offends me greatly........and if you ask me is damn insensitive to what I have gone through. You don't just tell someone who was abused, be it mentally, physically, or both to just "get over it". How dare you minimize what I dealt with like that?! You ought to be ashamed! I wouldn't tell you to just get over a rape for example......that's something you just don't do. You wanna talk about morality, well here's a place YOU need to learn something! What I went through had a HUGE impact on how I grew up, that's not something I can ever "get over" it will ALWAYS be a part of me. It shaped me then, and it shapes me even more now. Time may make it easier, but if I can prevent ANYONE from going through what I did in my teen years and even past them, you can be sure I will do all I can to do it. Whether it ruffles the feathers of the establishment or not I could care less...it's just the right thing to do. If can protect even one person from that experience, it's worth doing. If for no other reason than this......I will never "get over" my abuse, it will always play a role in my life in some capacity, always. As for the rest, yeah I think you did, you made a DEFINITE distinction between believers and non believers, placing yourself as more in tune with your spirit than those who don't believe as you do simply because they don't. That is the height of arrogance to me. They don't have to think just as you do to have some spiritual life to them, hell they could not believe at all and still have some. It is NOT an absolute all or nothing deal as you make it out to be. No matter your intention, you clearly placed non believers in one class of people and believers in others even if you didn't outright say it. |
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I still don't know what the last two dozen or so posts on this thread have to do with what Rush Limbaugh said. Isn't the original topic of this thread supposed to be something that Limbaugh said?
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