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Topic: What about the culture?
no photo
Fri 12/28/12 06:36 AM


Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.


If there are such people they are not in your government. Your Country is the most cruel, warlike and savage one on earth, bar none. It stole the land from the people who lived there first and killed them when they protested. Until such time as your country stops murdering people by the million all over the world, I'd suggest that American citizens are not safe from their government and should protect themselves from their vicious and warlike government by arming themselves to the teeth to prevent it from turning its massive arms on them.

(By government, I do not refer to the crooked lackey shills that you vote into office; I refer to their boss...The Bank.)


I think people from other countries should stop trying to tell us what to do and repay the debt they owe us.

Fortunately at this time banks are actually aiding the United States and the west with economic sanctions. So WE don't have a problem with the banks.

Our gov't is flawed but one of the best if not the best in the world. We do not need guns to protect ourselves from our gov't as OUR gov't is not a tyranny (of bizarre religious beliefs or anything else). Keeping arms with the intent to overthrow the gov't is treason here, but since that is "normal" in some parts of the world I know many don't understand that we simply do not do that here (except a few well watched nutjobs maybe).

We simply have a protected right to bear arms that should not be eroded. It stands to reason however that there needs to be responsible oversight. Our country is where everyone seems to be trying to get IN......so despite your immature inflammatory hate rhetoric - the evidence is otherwise.

deny1192006's photo
Fri 12/28/12 06:41 AM
i agree with someone above a gun ban wont fix anything people will kill people if they want weather its with a gun a bat knife or hammer are we going to ban steak knifes because of stabbings when there are no gun ???? baseball and construction tools ????? people are the problem not the weapon

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 06:41 AM

Ok, I looked it up. I think regular inspections and the associated weapons training go a long way in explaining the cultural differences.

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place. The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland


another is simply size. not only is your country smaller, it is much more parochial....easier to predict and easier to control activity in the populace. You do not have large incursions of various subcultures or a large populace that is more difficult to know what is going on and what types of people are buying guns. It is one thing for hunters to own rifles, it is another to have armed drug lords from across the border entering our country. We have a more varied landscape here in that respect. Trying to compare Switzerland to the US is like comparing a Sunday School to Watts.

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 06:54 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 12/28/12 06:56 AM
Ohh what a bunch of hyperbolic drivel.

US population: 311,591,917
45% of those own firearms.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

A list of the rate of ALL violent crime per 100,000.

A tiny tiny fraction of gun owners are involved in violent crime.

You will find states with gun ownership higher than the national average with lower violent crime than any of the other countries that the nonsense spewing anti-gun advocates like the OP want us to believe are our role models in this regard. In some cases the population densities of the states in question are just as large as the countries we compare with.

This conclusively proves the narrative being presented as false, inconsistent, and hyperbolic at best. Outright lies at worst.

deny1192006's photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:01 AM



Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.


If there are such people they are not in your government. Your Country is the most cruel, warlike and savage one on earth, bar none. It stole the land from the people who lived there first and killed them when they protested. Until such time as your country stops murdering people by the million all over the world, I'd suggest that American citizens are not safe from their government and should protect themselves from their vicious and warlike government by arming themselves to the teeth to prevent it from turning its massive arms on them.

(By government, I do not refer to the crooked lackey shills that you vote into office; I refer to their boss...The Bank.)


I think people from other countries should stop trying to tell us what to do and repay the debt they owe us.

Fortunately at this time banks are actually aiding the United States and the west with economic sanctions. So WE don't have a problem with the banks.

Our gov't is flawed but one of the best if not the best in the world. We do not need guns to protect ourselves from our gov't as OUR gov't is not a tyranny (of bizarre religious beliefs or anything else). Keeping arms with the intent to overthrow the gov't is treason here, but since that is "normal" in some parts of the world I know many don't understand that we simply do not do that here (except a few well watched nutjobs maybe).

We simply have a protected right to bear arms that should not be eroded. It stands to reason however that there needs to be responsible oversight. Our country is where everyone seems to be trying to get IN......so despite your immature inflammatory hate rhetoric - the evidence is otherwise.




we are very war like historicly but are goverment is slowly trying to take our rights by not fixing things here bring production to the states lets make things here and we owe more to china than anyone owes us sweetheart too but controling jobs they control the people by making them dependant on the goverment i.e govermant assistants and with education your education system is failing compaired to other countrys we play being so great but why aint we even in the top five in educaion they want a tyranny !!!!

deny1192006's photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:02 AM

Ohh what a bunch of hyperbolic drivel.

US population: 311,591,917
45% of those own firearms.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

A list of the rate of ALL violent crime per 100,000.

A tiny tiny fraction of gun owners are involved in violent crime.

You will find states with gun ownership higher than the national average with lower violent crime than any of the other countries that the nonsense spewing anti-gun advocates like the OP want us to believe are our role models in this regard. In some cases the population densities of the states in question are just as large as the countries we compare with.

This conclusively proves the narrative being presented as false, inconsistent, and hyperbolic at best. Outright lies at worst.




amen to this amen

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:07 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 12/28/12 07:08 AM


Ohh what a bunch of hyperbolic drivel.

US population: 311,591,917
45% of those own firearms.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

A list of the rate of ALL violent crime per 100,000.

A tiny tiny fraction of gun owners are involved in violent crime.

You will find states with gun ownership higher than the national average with lower violent crime than any of the other countries that the nonsense spewing anti-gun advocates like the OP want us to believe are our role models in this regard. In some cases the population densities of the states in question are just as large as the countries we compare with.

This conclusively proves the narrative being presented as false, inconsistent, and hyperbolic at best. Outright lies at worst.




amen to this amen
To add even more!

More than 1 million concealed carry permits have been issued in the state of Florida. Total population ~14 million. 1 in 14 people have the ability to carry a firearm, and less than 2% of the 1 million permits have been revoked.

Conclusion, the VAST majority of gun owners ARE responsible and SHOULD be the role model you look too . . .


deny1192006's photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:41 AM



Ohh what a bunch of hyperbolic drivel.

US population: 311,591,917
45% of those own firearms.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

A list of the rate of ALL violent crime per 100,000.

A tiny tiny fraction of gun owners are involved in violent crime.

You will find states with gun ownership higher than the national average with lower violent crime than any of the other countries that the nonsense spewing anti-gun advocates like the OP want us to believe are our role models in this regard. In some cases the population densities of the states in question are just as large as the countries we compare with.

This conclusively proves the narrative being presented as false, inconsistent, and hyperbolic at best. Outright lies at worst.




amen to this amen
To add even more!

More than 1 million concealed carry permits have been issued in the state of Florida. Total population ~14 million. 1 in 14 people have the ability to carry a firearm, and less than 2% of the 1 million permits have been revoked.

Conclusion, the VAST majority of gun owners ARE responsible and SHOULD be the role model you look too . . .





you couldnt be more right ima ask you a favor will you look up the stats for ohios carry law i would but on a towboat for another six days and dont have a way to do it myself but im sure it will be dam near the same

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 09:19 AM




Ohh what a bunch of hyperbolic drivel.

US population: 311,591,917
45% of those own firearms.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

A list of the rate of ALL violent crime per 100,000.

A tiny tiny fraction of gun owners are involved in violent crime.

You will find states with gun ownership higher than the national average with lower violent crime than any of the other countries that the nonsense spewing anti-gun advocates like the OP want us to believe are our role models in this regard. In some cases the population densities of the states in question are just as large as the countries we compare with.

This conclusively proves the narrative being presented as false, inconsistent, and hyperbolic at best. Outright lies at worst.




amen to this amen
To add even more!

More than 1 million concealed carry permits have been issued in the state of Florida. Total population ~14 million. 1 in 14 people have the ability to carry a firearm, and less than 2% of the 1 million permits have been revoked.

Conclusion, the VAST majority of gun owners ARE responsible and SHOULD be the role model you look too . . .





you couldnt be more right ima ask you a favor will you look up the stats for ohios carry law i would but on a towboat for another six days and dont have a way to do it myself but im sure it will be dam near the same


http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/files/Publications/Publications-for-Law-Enforcement/Concealed-Carry-Publications/Concealed-Carry-Statistics

Ohio finished 2011 ranked 11th nationally in estimated total active permits (270,000) and 25th in percentage (3.2) of the population that holds one.


http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2012/08/10/concealed-carry-permits-rise-in-ohio/

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 09:24 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 12/28/12 09:30 AM
I am not done yet.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.


Utah is the number one state for concealed carry permits with ~ 1 in 5 people having one.

http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2012/08/10/concealed-carry-permits-rise-in-ohio/
There are four states that have reached double digits in concealed-carry permits as a percentage of adult population: Utah (19.3), Georgia (11.5), Iowa (10.9) and South Dakota (10.6).


Utah violent crime per 100K = 224 compared to UK with ~10 times that much . . .

In all, there were about 8 million active concealed-carry permits nationally in 2011, led by Florida’s 887,000.
Now a million . . . that shows just how much of an uptick in permits. Americans overwhelmingly want to be able to defend themselves, and are overwhelming responsible in that regard.

Anyone pushing a different narrative is just not paying attention to the facts, or couldn't draw a valid conclusion from facts to save their life or are completely dishonest.


lilott's photo
Fri 12/28/12 09:35 AM


Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.


If there are such people they are not in your government. Your Country is the most cruel, warlike and savage one on earth, bar none. It stole the land from the people who lived there first and killed them when they protested. Until such time as your country stops murdering people by the million all over the world, I'd suggest that American citizens are not safe from their government and should protect themselves from their vicious and warlike government by arming themselves to the teeth to prevent it from turning its massive arms on them.

(By government, I do not refer to the crooked lackey shills that you vote into office; I refer to their boss...The Bank.)
That's the main reason for the 2nd amendment.

deny1192006's photo
Fri 12/28/12 09:50 AM
thank you for the bit about ohio we only passed ours in 08 in 11 thats alnost 100000 a years and it increases everyday

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/28/12 10:15 AM
Pure propaganda.......

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 10:23 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/18/woman-police-officer-killed-manchester

Here is a perfect example, this criminal in the UK acquired a hand gun, and a grenade, then called in a burglary and waiting in ambush for the unarmed police officers to arrive. Then he gunned them down and throw the grenade for good measure.

Banning technology has never prevented a determined human from getting it, making it, or finding alternatives that work.


willowdraga's photo
Fri 12/28/12 10:36 AM





Whether severe restrictions on gun ownership would save a thousand lives, or merely a handful now and then, really isn’t the point. The more important question is what kind of country do we want to be? Will we insist on remaining among the most heavily armed nations on Earth — and one of the most deadly, as if those things were merely coincidental — or will we seek to create a culture of non-violence, in which manhood is not defined beginning at an early age, as being related to fighting, hunting, shooting things for fun, and generally being physically tough?

Bottom line: there is something wrong with a society in which so many people want and even seem to need guns, like some kind of psychological crutch; a society in which millions pay good money to watch two men get in a cage and beat the **** out of each other, and think to call that sickness a sport, or even worse, an art form.

Whether or not gun control can really work as advertised, guns, sadly, work exactly as promised. They serve only one function, and it is that purpose for which they were made: to kill, either an animal (usually for fun), or another person.

To think that we would want more killing machines in the hands of a people who are so quick to resort to violence at the drop of a hat — to avenge global, or local “disrespect” by some foe, real or imagined, or to resolve otherwise minor squabbles — seems the stuff of true insanity.

In short, while guns alone don’t kill people, it is rather apparent that Americans do, and mostly with guns. And until we address the cultural sickness that lay at the heart of our national identity, it is quite clear that we are a people unworthy of access to such instruments of death as these.

Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.



from http://www.timwise.org/2012/12/of-heroes-and-hype-mass-murder-and-the-absurdity-of-the-more-guns-crowd/


Gun crazy ideology is more the problem, you are right there.

It is a taught sickness we bear in this country. And it is a sickness.

Gun do not make one more powerful. They are not even protection most of the time. The stats prove these points.

Well stats not originating from the gun crazy sites that tell lies of course.


no photo
Fri 12/28/12 10:51 AM






Whether severe restrictions on gun ownership would save a thousand lives, or merely a handful now and then, really isn’t the point. The more important question is what kind of country do we want to be? Will we insist on remaining among the most heavily armed nations on Earth — and one of the most deadly, as if those things were merely coincidental — or will we seek to create a culture of non-violence, in which manhood is not defined beginning at an early age, as being related to fighting, hunting, shooting things for fun, and generally being physically tough?

Bottom line: there is something wrong with a society in which so many people want and even seem to need guns, like some kind of psychological crutch; a society in which millions pay good money to watch two men get in a cage and beat the **** out of each other, and think to call that sickness a sport, or even worse, an art form.

Whether or not gun control can really work as advertised, guns, sadly, work exactly as promised. They serve only one function, and it is that purpose for which they were made: to kill, either an animal (usually for fun), or another person.

To think that we would want more killing machines in the hands of a people who are so quick to resort to violence at the drop of a hat — to avenge global, or local “disrespect” by some foe, real or imagined, or to resolve otherwise minor squabbles — seems the stuff of true insanity.

In short, while guns alone don’t kill people, it is rather apparent that Americans do, and mostly with guns. And until we address the cultural sickness that lay at the heart of our national identity, it is quite clear that we are a people unworthy of access to such instruments of death as these.

Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.



from http://www.timwise.org/2012/12/of-heroes-and-hype-mass-murder-and-the-absurdity-of-the-more-guns-crowd/


Gun crazy ideology is more the problem, you are right there.

It is a taught sickness we bear in this country. And it is a sickness.

Gun do not make one more powerful. They are not even protection most of the time. The stats prove these points.

Well stats not originating from the gun crazy sites that tell lies of course.


The data is collected by our government.

Where is your study?

willowdraga's photo
Fri 12/28/12 10:58 AM







Whether severe restrictions on gun ownership would save a thousand lives, or merely a handful now and then, really isn’t the point. The more important question is what kind of country do we want to be? Will we insist on remaining among the most heavily armed nations on Earth — and one of the most deadly, as if those things were merely coincidental — or will we seek to create a culture of non-violence, in which manhood is not defined beginning at an early age, as being related to fighting, hunting, shooting things for fun, and generally being physically tough?

Bottom line: there is something wrong with a society in which so many people want and even seem to need guns, like some kind of psychological crutch; a society in which millions pay good money to watch two men get in a cage and beat the **** out of each other, and think to call that sickness a sport, or even worse, an art form.

Whether or not gun control can really work as advertised, guns, sadly, work exactly as promised. They serve only one function, and it is that purpose for which they were made: to kill, either an animal (usually for fun), or another person.

To think that we would want more killing machines in the hands of a people who are so quick to resort to violence at the drop of a hat — to avenge global, or local “disrespect” by some foe, real or imagined, or to resolve otherwise minor squabbles — seems the stuff of true insanity.

In short, while guns alone don’t kill people, it is rather apparent that Americans do, and mostly with guns. And until we address the cultural sickness that lay at the heart of our national identity, it is quite clear that we are a people unworthy of access to such instruments of death as these.

Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.



from http://www.timwise.org/2012/12/of-heroes-and-hype-mass-murder-and-the-absurdity-of-the-more-guns-crowd/


Gun crazy ideology is more the problem, you are right there.

It is a taught sickness we bear in this country. And it is a sickness.

Gun do not make one more powerful. They are not even protection most of the time. The stats prove these points.

Well stats not originating from the gun crazy sites that tell lies of course.


The data is collected by our government.

Where is your study?


Yea the government stats favor me.


willowdraga's photo
Fri 12/28/12 11:02 AM



Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.


If there are such people they are not in your government. Your Country is the most cruel, warlike and savage one on earth, bar none. It stole the land from the people who lived there first and killed them when they protested. Until such time as your country stops murdering people by the million all over the world, I'd suggest that American citizens are not safe from their government and should protect themselves from their vicious and warlike government by arming themselves to the teeth to prevent it from turning its massive arms on them.

(By government, I do not refer to the crooked lackey shills that you vote into office; I refer to their boss...The Bank.)
That's the main reason for the 2nd amendment.


The only way the guns protect against the government is if a person uses it on themselves before the government gets to them. We have the most advanced military in the world here, no piss ant assault rifle is any challenge to them. Even a million assault rifles will be no challenge to our government if an armed upheaval were to happen. I would hope I wouldn't be in the vicinity when the government removes them as a problem.

JustDukkyMkII's photo
Fri 12/28/12 11:40 AM
Edited by JustDukkyMkII on Fri 12/28/12 11:52 AM




Perhaps somewhere there are people mature enough to handle guns responsibly. We have proven, over and again, and with the blood of our children, that we are not that people.


If there are such people they are not in your government. Your Country is the most cruel, warlike and savage one on earth, bar none. It stole the land from the people who lived there first and killed them when they protested. Until such time as your country stops murdering people by the million all over the world, I'd suggest that American citizens are not safe from their government and should protect themselves from their vicious and warlike government by arming themselves to the teeth to prevent it from turning its massive arms on them.

(By government, I do not refer to the crooked lackey shills that you vote into office; I refer to their boss...The Bank.)
That's the main reason for the 2nd amendment.


The only way the guns protect against the government is if a person uses it on themselves before the government gets to them. We have the most advanced military in the world here, no piss ant assault rifle is any challenge to them. Even a million assault rifles will be no challenge to our government if an armed upheaval were to happen. I would hope I wouldn't be in the vicinity when the government removes them as a problem.


So when you finally hear that famous late-night "knock on the door" when "they" come for you, will you be hiding under the stairs, or the bed?

Maybe you should have a gun so you can kill yourself before they get you?...Scratch that...I kow how you feelabout guns...a cyanide pellet would be perfectly adequate and would pose no danger of harming others.

oldhippie1952's photo
Fri 12/28/12 11:47 AM





Whether severe restrictions on gun ownership would save a thousand lives, or merely a handful now and then, really isn’t the point. The more important question is what kind of country do we want to be? Will we insist on remaining among the most heavily armed nations on Earth —



Actually Yemen has more guns per capita, but otherwise I know what you are trying to get across.

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