This is one of the things of have been saying... It's not the tool, its the person wielding it. So many people are so quick to sacrifice freedom and responsibility in response to a tragedy without giving a thought to the cause... I do believe we have adopted a more savage culture. This is changed primarily through media.

Furthermore a much bigger influence can be made by simply giving help to those who need it (mental help). Our mental healthcare is largely shortchanged and forgotten about. This could identify and treat the individual who would possibly go on a killing prior to an occurrence. And to expand upon identification, education could be provided to the masses on possible warning signs for such outbursts. These actions could actually have a beneficial impact.

I wish more attention could be given to these issues instead of directing so much energy to the initial knee-jerk reaction of taking rights away from people who are already under control in an attempt to control those who aren't, and abolishing checks and balances in a system of government that was supposed to be designed around them.

Biblically, God has historically 'damned' nations and peoples for blatant sin and disregard of his rule,,,,,its hard to hear, but this is the 'justice' that biblically occurs as the wage of sin

no man can command God to bless or to damn, no man can stop what is to be blessed from being blessed, the SERMON was biblically relevant in regards to the sins occurring in our 'blessed' nation,,,where we could go, were we should go (according to biblical precedent) if we dont change,,,

I object to some of Farrakhans statements too, and I disagree with some of his beliefs,,but that doesnt mean I dont think he is ever correct or worthy of 'defending' in what he states,,,

and I dont 'defend' people based upon their religion, but based instead upon their words and actions

jesus was not a 'christian', obviously, he did not need to save himself,, he stood alone in terms of any religious LABEL

but yet he livd for the FATHER without ever needing to be a 'christian' to do it,,,

I also wish we had more compassion and care for people before they reached such desperation or illness,,,,that would go a long way in preventing tragedies too,.,,

Wright pronounced damnation on America, and you defend his doing so.
Also, why would you be paying attention to the teachings of a Muslim preacher?

many of muslim beliefs are the same as christian beliefs,, why shouldnt I pay attention?


I defend Wrights WARNING of where we could head,,,,,there was an IF after that 'GD america' statement that people love to quote so often, there were several IFS that followed it

is there something in the bible that prohibits me from listening to anyone not labeled a 'christian'?.....

Indeed. Normally i am against huge amounts of government spending, however back in the 80's huge cuts were made to mental health care, putting many who were being treated out of the street. Now something like 1 in 7 people have a chronic mental illness and something like 1 in 3 are actually being treated (these numbers are based completely off my memory from classes i took a few months ago).

Our system, which is based around insurance, creates a need to justify expenses which is often difficult to prove from a mental health standpoint.

what checks and balances are being sacrificed - I guess I don't see that. I also think it is too easy to blame stuff on the media. Our culture has become an instant gratification culture but I do not see that as the fault of the media.

no the right to listen and hear is both wise and jurisprudnt

but farrakhan is a racist

it is not Islam but his racism I part with

The Nation of Islam is not the same as Muslim

the nation of islam is a racist hate group

You haven't answered my question. Why do you pay any attention to Farrakhan?

Also, if Wright's "God damn America!" statement was as innocent as you claim, then why did President Obama distance himself from Wright?

I agree they are, by definition, racist , as they are focused on their own 'race' and communities

but I dont agree they are hateful

FArrakhan is likewise racist


but alot of what he has said makes sense and is still nonetheless true and wise....

tell me, if emmett till was innocent , why would he try to put distance between him and his accusers?

sometimes, the perception and misperception held by others, and the harm that can cause,, makes people choose to distance themself from the situation


and I pay attention to Farrakhan for the same reason I pay attention to anyone else, in this forum or in life

because he says things that interest me, and touches on topics that interest me

Oh? Just what does Farrakhan say that is true and wise?

Also, the antisemitism of the NOI is indeed hateful.
You listen to the leader of a hateful, racist organization. Why?

nothing a racist says is true and wise to me

as racist that is defintive - NO

harm - that would be like me saying the Klan has a few good points

ummmmm......no

Perhaps i misspoke, my intention was not to blame the media, merely bring some attention to the fact that it largely influences culture.

The checks and balances comment derived from the haste at which rights are diminished "for our own good". For example; The patriot act overrides our right to due process (trial by jury and such) which falls under the 4th amendment i think, and the first is overridden by the "fairness doctrine" which was passed to "protect us" from a biased media, negates the first amendment. Gun control is always on the docket, this negates the second amendment. These rights serve as a line of defense in the checks and balances arena. We, the people, are meant to keep the government in check. Just like each branch of the government is meant to keep the others in check.

I Think you would have to 'pay attention' to what is said to truly declare it hateful or anti semitic

what I have PAID attention to , is much deeper than that simple and easy condemnation however,,,,


,,to answer what he has said that is wise and true




Now, we almost finished. I want to take one last look at the word atonement. The first four letters of the word form the foundation a-t-o-n, aton. Aton. Since this obelisk in front of us is representative of Egypt and the 18th dynasty, a pharaoh Akhenaton was the first man of this history period to destroy the pantheon of many gods and bring the people of the worship of one god, and that one god was symboled by a sun disk with 19 rays coming out of that sun with hands holding Egyptian ankh, the cross of life. Aton. The name for the one god in ancient Egypt.

Aton, the one god, 19 rays Look at your scripture. A woman, remember the nine? Means somebody pregnant with an idea. But in this case, it's a woman pregnant with a male child destined to rule the nations where they're all divine. God is standing over her womb, and this child will be like the day's sun. And he will say I am the light of the world. Hands coming out of that sun - come unto me, all ye that are heavy laden. I'm gonna give you respite. I'm going to give you life because I am the resurrection and the life, and if you believe in me, though you are dead, yet shall you live again.

You're dead, black man. But if you believe in the God who created this sun of truth and of light with 19 rays meaning he's pregnant with God's spirit, God's light, God's wisdom. Abraham Lincoln's statue, 19 feet high, 19 feet wide. Jefferson, 19 feet high, and the third president, 19, standing on the steps of the Capitol in the light of the sun, offering life to a people who are dead. Black man, be atoned, represents the one God.

In the Koran, Muhammad is called a light-giving sun. So if you look at the aton, add an E to it, and separate the A from the next four letters and you get the word atone. Tone means sound and A, the first letter of the alphabet. And the first letter of the numerical system is one, so A equals one. So A sound means when you hear the A tone you will hear the right sound. And when you hear the right sound from the one God calling you to divine light, you will respond.

So what is the A tone? In music, A equals 440 vibrations. How long have we been in America? Four hundred and forty years. Well, in the 440th year from the one God, the aton, will come the atone, and all of us got to tune up our lives by the sound of the A tone because we've got to atone for all that we have done wrong. And when you atone, if you take the T and couple it with the A and hyphenate it, you get at-one. So when you atone you become at-one. At-one with who? The aton, or the one God. Because you heard the A tone and you tuned up your life, and now you're ready to make a new beginning. So when you get at-one you get the next two letters, it is ME. Me. Who is that has to atone? Who?



..this is a call to black people to 'atone' for what is wrong in THEIR pasts,,,(Being that he is a black man), I find that wise and true

he breaks down ATONEMent,,,,in three metaphors,,,

the A Tone (440 vibrations) to relate it to our time in the states
the Aton (the ancient egypt 'one God')
and AT ONE( what we need to be)

,, so I consider this and many of the other things he says to be very wise,,, yes,,,

that does not mean I have to or do agree with EVERYTHING he says,,,

so, a racist who tells their children they need to look after each other when he goes to work is not as true and wise as a non racist saying it?

things are true and wise that are true and wise,, regardless of who delivers the words,,,

IM a firm believer in the saying that even a broken clock is right twice a day

similarly, no person is ALWAYS wrong anymore than a person can be ALWAYS right

When you believe that racism is absolutely wrong, you keep your distance from racists, and you definitely don't follow their teachings.

I guess I dont believe it to be absolutely wrong though, and I believe all americans to be racist so it would be impossible to keep 'distance', without completely isolating myself,,,

I do not know the answer to that...as both a non racist and a racist can be taught to watch on others -but is it more important for me to protect a white child than a black child? no. I do not think it is possible to really have love in ones heart and be racist - not really

and it doesn't mean that blacks, whites , Indians might not get mad at each other sometimes - that's OK as long as there is an underlying love of our common humanity (but perfect none of us is)

I don't think the nation of islam is racist because they want to put values in front of black children in Americas cities

I think that is a good thing - but the message and the stewardship would be I think more effective as a message of love and acceptance

not to become what one hates, so to speak

I agree totally with this

"I don't think the nation of islam is racist because they want to put values in front of black children in Americas cities

I think that is a good thing - but the message and the stewardship would be I think more effective as a message of love and acceptance

not to become what one hates, so to speak"


I am personally more of a gentle person , but I do realize leadership isnt always able to be affective with 100 percent gentle methods 100 percent of the time

I think our nation has come through some trying times, racially, many of them I know Farrakhan himself lived through, and I Think his style and his words have lightened up quite a bit over his lifetime

I think that is a good thing that makes him even more human and worthy of consideration,,,,in my mind anyhow