show me a man or woman who believe sex is a verbal exercise,,and
I will show you a potential rape victim or rapist,,,,

show me a man or woman who believes not reading minds or hearing every word out of someones mouth are crimes, and I will show you a rape victim too

there are many situations, where women mistakenly believe, a mere syllable is going to catch a mans attention in the throws of passion

whether whispered, or hollered, whether accompanied by pushing away, or pulling closer,, those who believe a mere SYLLABLE in all those situations will result in the same outcome,,, are potential victims


sex is not a DISCUSSION, it is an activity,, a well communicated NO means no,, a whispered syllable with mixed physical behavior accompanying it,, is as useless as no words spoken at all

FBI consistently puts false accusations of rape at 8% so that's 8 times out of a 100, doesn't really constitute as "many" in my opinion although it is too many. False accusations of other crimes are generally in the 30% realm. Also, those are statistics of actually reported rapes. I personally know that rape is a highly unreported crime. Fear of exactly the kind of mindsets expressed here are leading reasons why rape is under reported, people tend to want to judge the one who was raped.

I have thought! We disagree !!! There are Not many reasons. Ask all the questions before hand like mature adults should.

thats the point, something as cliche as 'no means no' does not imply there has to be a well communicated no,, it implies the presence of that syllable in and of itself means no

a message only has meaning if it is RECEIVED,,,,,be careful what you assume is RECEIVED in the throws of passion,,,

I can think of so many grey areas it isnt funny.

why a woman would say no after starting... perhaps the partner is into something more aggressive or vulgar than what she was prepared for, like choking for instance(it happens).


why a man would not stop after his partner said no,,,perhaps his mind has gone into that phase of passion where he is no longer aware of soft verbal signals and he is paying more attention to the physical response, which may be the woman rubbing his hair or his back or ,,,you get the point,,lol


Thats why its best to be serious about your body and whom you share it with. Its not CASUAL, it can turn very serious very fast.

and yes, its even BETTER, and sexier, to talk about those things with a partner before you get to that point in the relationship(if you are the kind to need a relationship for sex to occur,, if not,, ur taking your chances,,,)

I can think of so many grey areas it isnt funny.

why a woman would say no after starting... perhaps the partner is into something more aggressive or vulgar than what she was prepared for, like choking for instance(it happens).


why a man would not stop after his partner said no,,,perhaps his mind has gone into that phase of passion where he is no longer aware of soft verbal signals and he is paying more attention to the physical response, which may be the woman rubbing his hair or his back or ,,,you get the point,,lol


Thats why its best to be serious about your body and whom you share it with. Its not CASUAL, it can turn very serious very fast.

and yes, its even BETTER, and sexier, to talk about those things with a partner before you get to that point in the relationship(if you are the kind to need a relationship for sex to occur,, if not,, ur taking your chances,,,)



And even with all of the above being responsible and mature, no still means no. No matter if she says it or he does, no matter when it is said, no matter how turn on a person is. It is their responsibility to make sure they answer a no with stopping what they are doing.

No always mean no!

OH HOW I KNOW THIS IS AIMED DIRECTLY AT ME!

Nice way to toss a bank shot off of a tree limb, a fence, and right at my heart.

I will say it again so we are clear I hope this time...

Emotional Kevlar Vest with a Ego Ceramic D Plate! Good against one shot from an emotional high powered rifle!

... I do not condone rape. I however have NO SYMPATHY for a woman who plays the tease or takes stupid chances and becomes a victim. Whether rape is wrong or not, if you take the chance and become the victim YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED, right or wrong.

AGAIN, ONE MORE TIME, you cannot blame a lion for eating people if they run into its cage. Now if someone lets the lion out of the cage and it eats people you blame the person who let it out!

And yet again, you act like i condone rape when I have been trying to tell you and other women what can trigger a man besides them being sex starved narcissistic jerks who deserve to get a good spanking. I have tried to explain ways of protecting yourself or if anything shielding yourself a little better.

OH BUT HERE IS NOME MORE ADVICE I AM SURE WILL GO COMPLETELY IGNORED AGAIN...

This is a test for those of us who believe we can read the English,

... A good predator will play with your trust. But there are ways of spotting one. Generally a guy who is always complimentary or seems to agree with every thing you say is someone to be wary of. You women EAT compliments like Chocolate Dipped Strawberries! Even a guy who is always there for you now may not be when he knows sex is out of the picture. Does he always have gifts for you? Hmmmmmmmmmmm... You do know men expect reciprocity... He gives you gifts and eventually he will expect a gift in return... AND AGAIN YOU WOMEN EAT UP FREEBIES! And also lies the bad communications...

OH BUT MY OH MY, I SUPPOSEDLY AM A POTENTIAL RAPIST! I am a BAD BAD MAN!

Like I also said Date Rape can be prevented most of the time.

I am not twisting words in any way. And believe me, if I have to sit on a trial for a rape case I want to know things like did she actually do anything to bring the attack on. FUCQ THE LAW! I ALREADY KNOW IT! The difference is that stupid is its own reward. If a woman did indeed bait a man or managed to set herself up for the whole, 'I let him in bed with me but I didn't expect to get attacked routine,' I am going to take stuff like that into account when first of all determining guilt and how far he deserves to be punished. A couple of months in jail MAYBE. Maybe more depending on his attitude in court. If he is a total *** well he may piss me off enough to have me wanting to give him a lot of time. But some desperate schmuck who was led on and put into a effed up situation by a woman who went into bed with him "unsure from the start?" WHO THE HELL TAUGHT YOU WOMEN MORALS? WHO THE HELL TAUGHT YOU TO SHARE A BED WITH A MAN YOU DON'T KNOW OR COMPLETELY TRUST? FRANKLY WHO THE HELL TAUGHT YOU IT WAS OK TO LET A MAN IN YOUR BED IN THE FIRST PLACE IF YOU DIDN'T INTEND SEX TO HAPPEN?


There is a HUGE and I mean comparing a goose to the Titanic size difference here between having to disengage from sex becasue of pain, an expected phone call, and a number of other reasons, vs. tossing meat in front of a starving dog and telling it to not eat it!!! And yet some women here seem to equate the idea that stop also means no!

Now why is it so many women being raped in the first place don't really HURT their attackers in the first place???? I personally know women who were attacked by a date rapist but they were not afraid to bite their nose off of the guy's face or shove their fingers into his eye sockets. You know here is the rub. So many of you want to be treated like equals... well, defend yourselves like the guys have to! Don't put your weakness on our shoulders any more. I have known women over the years who could bench press more weight and I mean a lot more than I can or could. Heck, I knew a woman who slapped the taste and a few teeth out of a man's mouth for calling her fat to her face. I saw it happen. Don't piss off a person who can bench Press 300 pounds (about 140 kilos). What guy would dare rape a woman that strong?

Hell, in classic Sparta a Spartan woman would take a rape attack all wrong and get violent as hell. You wanted sex with a Spartan woman you had to beat her down or be a proven warrior. Even a proven warrior had to prove he was strong enough to breed. The idea of raping a Spartan woman back then would have been laughable since a lot of men were rebuffed viciously and a few times killed buy a woman. The men were trained from 5 years old to die fighting and the Spartan women were trained to fight to be strong and defend themselves and the home while the men were off to war. Here in the modern age though some women do become warriors. Some even go further and take up Martial Arts to not only strengthen themselves but likewise to be able to take any man who thinks he can take advantage of her down and out. But a lot of women take the easy way out and expect men to do all the heavy lifting.

So I am not backing down on my opinion. I could care less if you don't like it.



So what is this number out of every 100,000 people crime for crime, city for city? Actually 8% is a rather significant number when you start to juggle population figures into this stew. A lot of people try to use the justice system to exact revenge. Again my example of that woman who tried to accuse an entire Lacrosse team of rape? the media was on it like wolves blowing everything up, the DA was hot for blood and numbers, not justice, and when the smoke settled the whole team was acquitted by witness testimony and fact gathering including two damning emails from the plaintiff.

I agree a lot of rape does go unreported, especially in the religious community! So does incest, and other forms of extortion. There are sad truths that some victims have no voice at all and have no idea to defend themselves. Children are the easiest prey. But hey, even for as much of a bastard as I may seem about this issue I do want to see something done about it but not like a witch hunt or a crusade. I don't like finding out the supposedly innocent little victim used me even incidentally to bring harm in any way to an innocent or undeserving person. Making a victim a victim is just as wrong victimizing an innocent person! Again people like to use the Justice System for personal revenge.

There are many reasons to abort mutually consensual sex acts....Could you give me a complete list of "all the questions" please?...Key word here is complete..

You don't think there are reasons why someone may change their mind?

Well, I can say that I've been discussing a well communicated NO as klc has said.

If you believe someone got what they deserved when they were raped, you are saying that you condone that rape. That is not ok. No one ever deserves to be raped. No matter what.

ALRIGHTY!


I tell you to NOT stick your hand in a particular hole because there is a wasp nest in it and you get stung from sticking your hand in it, who's fault is it?

If I told you not to go to a GG Allen concert because he will throw his own poop at the audience and you go and you do get crap tossed on you, who's fault is it?

Now this gets even better...

Not all bars are created equal. I have been in some down right rough bars. The kind of places where a woman isn't afraid to get a pool table messy with her BF in public. We are talking about a place a good girl has absolutely no business being in. Now lets say "little miss goody two shoes" decides she wants to be sexy and go to this bar just becasue she sees bikers going to it and she loves motorcycles. Stick with me. I know the environment considering I know what "Bikers" here in America as in the Hardley Davidson crowd.... (Post 74, you ain't got a HARLEY! Pre 74 and we have a different conversation!) Think Vagios or Hell's Angles flavor Bikers. Now on top of dressing sexy she goes in alone, black leather miniskirt with no panties, and proceeds to get friendly with the locals and gets to drinking. And she wants a ride and she does Meth for the first time and she wakes up the next morning with a sore crotch partially remembering the night before. What am I to think? If she was a good girl why would she go there.

This is just an example and not as extreme an example as I know this situation has happened before. But for argument sake this is just a fictitious situation to illustrate "going where angels fear to tread." Again I could care less if it is right or wrong. If you put yourself in harm's way you deserve what you get.

One more example,

I am a Free Diver. That means no scuba tank. One rule is you do not dive alone. There is safety in numbers. Diving alone is asking for problems since even seals can be a righteous pest. Its what YOU don't see is what a diver should be more concerned with.

Another important rule is NEVER EVER STICK YOUR HAND INTO A HOLE UNDERWATER! NEVER! That is what a prod or a grabber stick is for. this even goes for Scuba Divers. Why? Lobsters are tasty! And here in the Pacific they don't have those nasty crushing claws. But Lobsters live in holes. So do Morey Eels. And they share the same hole. The Morey and the Lobster don't fight. Reach in to grab a lobster and the eel bites into your hand GUARANTEED and it will ball up and lock you in its hole. You can't swim for air. Stick hand in hole to grab lobster could = death. A smart person does not "noodle" for anything in the ocean. Now if I dove alone, reached in a hole for a lobster and got drown becasue a Morey eel did indeed grab my hand and would not let me go before I ran out of air and I drown, who's fault is it again? Would I deserve sympathy for getting myself drown? HELL NO! If I die because of my own stupidity I DESERVE IT.

If you suffer for your own stupidity right or wrong, see where I am going?

Heck, LION COUNTRY SAFARI!

You used to be able to drive a car in and see lions, elephants, an other really dangerous animals. They even had a sign that said "keep the top up on your convertible" yet some Yutz would drop the top and promptly get attacked by lions. So blame the park for people who could not obey the signs and rules even with people telling them to keep all windows and doors closed at all times while in the park?

NO I SAY! NOT RIGHT! Again I don't condone date rape. But I also do not sympathize when a woman manages to put herself in harm's way. We are not talking about suddenly he is all heavy hands in the car like in the case of the song Date Rape. That is a case where I do actually sympathize with the victim. When the answer is no out the gate and that is taken as a Non Answer. That is an animal I would want to see punished. But let him into your bed and suddenly it is rape? Sweetie, I grew up with moral standards RAMMED down my throat. And worst is most of what I was spoon fed was Hypocritical lies and deceit fed to me by people living their own personal lies. I don't live a lie. If a woman does not want to have sex with me stay out of my bed and don't invite me into yours. I can understand that well enough.

Frankly this topic really is getting boring becasue I am not into a "quick nut." I like to take some time and enjoy a nice long trip... And rapist get their rocks off all too easily! hell, if she don't get hers I didn't do my job right!

So now what, beat the horse some more?

Come on, you cannot argue sin with the devil. When two people do wrong to each other one wrong does not supersede the other. No way!

I am not ashamed for my beliefs.

You must have me confused with someone who fears god. Respect God, maybe, but fear?

Not.

Again what I feel is not synonymous with condoning anything. You just want to generalize even more than I do!

This is just going in circles. You continue to bring up animals in a discussion about people who know right from wrong and know what no or stop means. We've also agreed a while ago that women should not put themselves in dangerous situations. I'm not arguing against that.

Animals indeed... And this time I did not compare humans to animals this time...



Again putting words in my mouth or misinterpreting...

So we half agree with women putting themselves in danger. OK, fine...

So how do we make this a positive thing where we can act in a way that may help others prevent BEING date raped? How about helping men understand women better? How about getting women to wake the hell up to new realities you mothers evidently did not equip you well enough for thanks to religion and other factors like our society and years of Victorian censorship?

But then again since Gen X things seem to be on a downward spiral for our children and their children. Our generation was too busy with free love and stuffing daisies up rifle barrels to see what we were bringing upon ourselves. Way too much self indulgence.

You know here is an experimental situation, you are at the beach and the water suddenly recedes. The locals are running like hell inland but you decide to see what the commotion is all about and where the water went. Strolling out into the wet sand you see the occasional stranded fish and nothing looks out of sorts except that black line on the horizon that seems to be getting bigger. Suddenly you are facing a wall of water looming towards you. You think yelling 'stop' will make anything happen?

What my issue is not the idea of no meaning no. What I have is a problem with the occasional fool who thinks they can walk in the path of a flood and come out unscathed. Nothing more... How complicated is that?

Are you happy? No animals were hurt in the course of this reply...





Look, I even got a Seal of Approval!!!

can you pull it?

Andy, what don't you think men understand about women? How will understanding more help them not rape women?

And yes, in your previous post, you went on about lions attacking, which is why I brought up you comparing people to animals again.

In the last post, you're comparing saying no to men to saying no to water? That makes no sense.

Au contrair!

This is a direct comparison to animals. Humans and Dolphins share a lot of social behaviors but this gets even better, Dolphins do rape their own females. Male Dolphins will form RAPE GANGS. Look it up if you feel compelled to do so! Humans form rape gangs too.

THAT IS A DIRECT COMPARISON TO ANIMALS.

Comparing a stupid idiot opening their car up in a Animal Park and getting attacked is not the same thing! Clearly you do not read as well as you think you do!

Likewise here is a saying you might have forgotten, YOU SEW WHAT YOU REAP! If you act stupid or thoughtless and get harmed for it that is your reward!

If you jump in a tank full of hungry Piranha and they eat you guess what, WHY DID YOU JUMP IN A TANK FULL OF HUNGRY PIRANHA IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Or even better yet what do you get when you toss a sheep in a pen full of hungry wolves?


You see nature gave women the advantage with breeding. It really is the woman's choice except life itself is sneaky! In REAL life outside of the world of MANKIND MIGHT MAKES RIGHT! When a man overpowers a woman and takes that ability to choose away OUR RULES say it is wrong but the end result actually says LIFE WILL ALWAYS WIN OUT OVER US! Right or wrong rape is a reproductive strategy life itself dumped on us! We as humans just try to cope with it seeking higher ideals but when you strip us of our iPhones, clothing, cars and tools what have you got left? A pink (or brown) Simeon that does everything like every other animals does on this planet.

One more time,

This is Science, NOT speculation, and has nothing to do with religion here...


HUMANS

ARE

ANIMALS.

So unless you know something about our species I don't, tell me! Are we really Minerals pretending to be someone? Or are we plants? I know we are not pure energy!

Now with that aside... No may mean no but again putting yourself in danger, and it is likewise dangerous to assume, if you put yourself in the firing line and get hit, you had it coming.

So again do we turn this into something positive to help others or are you just going to argue with me in futility? You are grasping at so many straws you are going to ruin the broom. I did very well in Critical Reasoning in English (COLLEGE). I know my argument has structure.

It is not this method of arguing,



So is this how you deal with issues? Throw rocks until the other guy surrenders? You keep revisiting the same old arguments and trying to raise the same old dead points when you clearly are seeing only what you want to see.



So are you done trying to beat me up comparing us to animals or even trying to illustrate an argument with animals or are we going to go into a tangent about how humans are not animals? Care to try to argue Science with me? I'm game...

Sorry I see a broader picture in this issue than you care to see!

Aw but man is not a beast of no control. He is not a hornets nest if teased. He is not a lion after a meal.

The analogy is an excuse.

It is the taught excuse given men of past ages to allow his actions to be the fault of the woman.

It is not valid. He is not a beast.

Men who buy into it, don't really like women except for what they can do for them. Misogynists.

Misogynists believe women deserve to be punished for their sexuality if not given permission by a man to exercise it.

Women have to watch where they go BECAUSE of this very type thinking not BECAUSE they are women and should be able to dress and act how they want with no fear of rape.

I imagine this will go over your head though.

Nice try! if you panic a group of humans what do you get? A STAMPEDE!

Remember a couple of years back when that club in New Jersey caught fire and people crammed the door so hard in an panic to get out people were trapped inside and died?

I am not buying this hollow statement as fact at all! You present no facts here, only belief! No one and I mean absolutely no one is in complete control of themselves. We have the capacity to condition ourselves against our instincts but in the end we are still instinctual creatures! Do not feed me Dogma where I will fall back on science and observation!

I do not feel women deserve to be punished for their sexuality. Do I need to spell that out in bigger letters? How about flashing letters too? I feel all people deserve to suffer for their stupidity if they brig disaster upon themselves. Again welcome to an equal world where women have to equally defend themselves. It does not matter if you burn yourself, that not so friendly dog bit you for trying to get friendly with it, or you blow yourself up mixing cleaning products that say "DO NOT MIX" on their bottles in thee languages!

Yeah I am such a bad guy! I am the Devil! Again sorry if I do not feel too compelled by the lack of depth to your argument! If you want to dance with wolves and get bitten who is to blame? Shall we blame the wolf AGAIN?

So how does this make me Misogynistic again? I just don't like weakness and stupidity? I see a lot of blame passing here. How about some sharing here? Women have to worry about where they go? WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! WELCOME TO A NATION WHERE WE GIVE CRIMINALS RIGHTS! WELCOME TO A NATION WHERE WE REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR!

Besides, like YOU WOMEN do not objectify men! PLEASE TELL ME MOST OF YOU DON'T! There are women here who I actually have a lot of respect for and some I have marginal respect for. it takes work for me to NOT respect you at all! But some women seem to have earning my disrespect down to an art! That is not to say I DON'T respect you. You and I just disagree. There is no shame in that at all. But I do not agree with this whole, "I can invoke no whenever I feel like it just becasue I say so since I am a woman and have rights!" You are aware of what, "There is nothing more terrifying than a woman scorned," means? A man says NO to certain things and a lot of women get VINDICTIVE!

I am not advocating rape. I am against people being stupid retards! Why is it I can be in a room full of naked women and not be hot and lathered up over it? BECAUSE NUDITY MEANS NOTHING TO ME! But when I got a hot naked woman rubbing all over me what do you think I am thinking? You think I am thinking, "I am in love?" Hell no. I am thinking, "where do we get busy practicing making babies!" Do you think after the dry spells I have had to endure having a naked woman in my bed telling me "NO STOP," right when I am about to drink from the Oasis in the middle of a fucqing desert that is the first thing I want to hear? And then followed by "This is all a big mistake?" I threw her out of my house is what happened when that occurred to me! I felt like emotional shyte for two weeks after what that Bone Cutter pulled on me. Suddenly I was a mean fucqed up man according to her. Well, Don't call me a 'mistake' in my own god damn bed for one!

So you want to talk about when NO does not mean anything, how about some of the hurtful words you women use against us? You hurt us we hurt you and that is part of the vicious cycle I am trying to break but no... I see people who perpetuate it with their beliefs clogging up reason! There is no. But then there are the mean hearted things women say that will likewise set a man off and then comes the retaliation, and then comes all the drama, and all the BS. So let me guess, behind the scenes I am painted as some bestial maniac. Well, I do for some reason relate to animals better than I do with people. At least they don't make their lives more complicated than they have to be.