Topic: Zimmerman Had Substantial Injuries........
msharmony's photo
Fri 05/18/12 01:12 PM

Link
For those of you who were unable to watch the bond hearing this morning for George Zimmerman -- here are some of the highlights -- and insights.

First -- the prosecution did their best to try to improperly influence the potential viewer jury pool by bringing up Zimmerman's prior arrest for battery and obstruction of justice as showing he had a "violent" nature, and therefore should not be released as he was a "danger" to the public. Instead, what we found out was that plain clothes investigators from the State Alcohol and Tobacco division grabbed one of his friends (several years ago) without identifying themselves -- and George went over to help. When he found out they were law enforcement, he immediately backed off -- although there was some very minor jostling in the process. For anyone familiar with this type of enforcement -- very typical. Even the presiding judge, Judge Kenneth Lester, Jr. -- said that. Then they raised the fact of another older incident where there were mutual injunctions when George had a scuffle with a former lady friend who had actually attacked him -- and in return, he slapped her, and pushed her off onto a bed so he could leave. Again -- more of an attack on character than having any real relevance to anything. There was also an attempt to suggest he "racially profiled" Trayvon Martin -- which was rebutted by the fact that Zimmerman had been a mentor for almost two years to two African American children in a mentoring program. (And . . . you might remember he had a number of friends on the news who were of African American origin). And -- a very big surprise move when Zimmerman actually took the stand at the end of the motion simply to apologize to the Martin family for the death of their son, and to express his sorrow. Something that appeared very sincere -- rather than as a media ploy.

What was the other "evidence"? Not much.

While it appears that Zimmerman did continue to follow Trayvon Martin after making a non-emergency call to police for a unit to investigate -- and while it also seems likely that Martin was worried about who was following him, and why -- there was no evidence to contradict that Trayvon did not confront Zimmerman in the end, or assault Zimmerman first. Nor, was there any evidence to controvert that Zimmerman had lacerations on the back of his head consistent with being pounded into concrete, had swelling on his face due to injuries, and had his nose broken . And -- while there was evidence that Trayvon's mother said she recognized the person screaming for help was Trayvon -- no other family member was able to do this. There was also important evidence that Zimmerman fired only one cartridge into Trayvon's chest at point blank range -- and according to Zimmerman's statements to police, Zimmerman pulled the firearm while he was on the ground at a point where Trayvon allegedly had both hands on Zimmerman's face. By implication -- this was obviously after his nose was broken, and after he received the injuries to the back of his head. Also important is the fact that Zimmerman gave multiple statements to the police for two days immediately after the shooting that are not inconsistent with his defense -- and also volunteered to come in for another statement to the new State Attorney only a few days before charges were filed -- which offer was apparently declined.

In other words -- at least from a true legal analysis -- the police had no evidence contrary to the case being one of self defense -- and the only open issue was whether Zimmerman used "excessive force" (which would be manslaughter -- not second degree murder) -- and that at the time of the initial investigation (and probably now) -- law enforcement didn't have any evidence that controverted Zimmerman suffering "great bodily harm" (the broken nose) -- nor -- did they have any evidence contrary to his assertion that he was in reasonable fear of further serious injury or death.

What was left out?

Well . . . some of the key issues we still don't know:
1. What was the distance Zimmerman was following Martin from?
2. Did Zimmerman ever actually run after Martin?
3. Where was Zimmerman when Martin approached -- assuming Martin really did -- and where was this in relationship to Zimmerman's vehicle?
4. Were photos taken of Zimmerman's injuries by the police before they were cleaned up?
5. Is there any blood stain evidence -- how much -- and where?
6. Who actually was screaming for help? (the FBI allegedly did an analysis -- but this was not introduced)
7. Is there any other physical evidence that supports or discredits the prosecution or defense?
8. What was the extent of the head injuries?
9. Were there any injuries on Trayvon Martin besides the gun shot wound?
10. Were there any other injuries on Zimmerman?
11. Is there anything significantly inconsistent about the statements Zimmerman gave to the police?

Anyway -- the judge set a bond of $150,000.00, with other conditions including GPS monitoring. This is not atypical for such charges, especially where the State Attorney is asking for no bond. (Actually -- they wanted a million dollar bond -- which would mean the same thing). Of course, Zimmerman doesn't have those kind of funds -- and he, and his family have just about zero money. However, there is a fund set up on the internet for donations [http://www.therealgeorgezimmerman.com] for his legal defense, that would also be important for bail. Assuming you really want "justice" -- feel free to donate five bucks or a hundred bucks. You can't fight these things without money.

As you can probably tell from how I reported this hearing -- I'm leaning more to the self defense claim being legit. Under any circumstance -- I stick to my original analysis -- that Sanford Police Department did the right thing by not arresting him -- because it is clear -- they did not have probable cause to disbelieve the self defense issues. In fact -- I have serious doubts that there is probable cause at this time, despite the fact that the State Attorney filed charges. However, I also stick to what I originally said -- that it was a major mistake to refuse releasing information on why Zimmerman was not arrested. In fact -- it was contrary to the public interest to refuse doing that -- and was a complete and utter failure to see and understand the obvious need -- that has led to this "public lynching" of the self defense laws, Zimmerman, his friends, and his family.

Last -- a teaching point. Using a firearm should be an absolute last resort. If you do -- make sure you have lots of money to defend yourself -- and get to a lawyer who knows this stuff -- QUICKLY! Not days or weeks after -- but hopefully within the first few days! Even if it cost you five hundred or a grand to talk to the guy (or gal) -- it's gonna be worth it.

As to the Governor's Task Force . . . well . . . I personally think that will turn into a "witch hunt" on all the alleged "evils" of gun ownership. A few of the appointees are violently anti-gun -- and I'm not sure any of them really have the experience you and I would hope would be on the panel. I sure as hell wasn't asked. So , we'll see where that goes -- and that may require some real work on the part of those who believe in the Second Amendment -- to legally survive.




THIS

plain clothes investigators from the State Alcohol and Tobacco division grabbed one of his friends (several years ago) without identifying themselves -- and George went over to help. When he found out they were law enforcement, he immediately backed off -- although there was some very minor jostling in the process. For anyone familiar with this type of enforcement -- very typical.


thats what IM talking about

so, perhaps good old George , felt the authority, after following martin and approaching him to try to 'restrain' him (remember his deep concern that he might 'get away'?)

leading Martin at 17 to feel just as threatened as Zimmermans friend in his twenties must have felt that night

and a TYPICAL altercation from such a misunderstanding could have been avoided

no photo
Fri 05/18/12 03:21 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 05/18/12 03:21 PM
More speculation with no facts . . . .


This one should be pretty easy for the defense.

msharmony's photo
Fri 05/18/12 03:35 PM

More speculation with no facts . . . .


This one should be pretty easy for the defense.



maybe , maybe not

he had the gun, he pursued,,,left to be determined is what happened after he got off the phone and if the evidence matches the story he initially gave,,,

willing2's photo
Fri 05/18/12 04:48 PM
I asked a very short, simple question and it was either missed or skipped over.

I'll ask again.

If you was being beat down and you had a gun, would you use it to stop the beating?

msharmony's photo
Fri 05/18/12 05:00 PM

I asked a very short, simple question and it was either missed or skipped over.

I'll ask again.

If you was being beat down and you had a gun, would you use it to stop the beating?




using a gun because Im losing a fist fight,,,nope


not the example I Want for kids either,, a fight is a fight, people have had them for ages,,,

the gun is unnecessary unless its on private property or someplace the other party has no business being,,,and was not invited,



willing2's photo
Fri 05/18/12 05:02 PM
Edited by willing2 on Fri 05/18/12 05:05 PM


I asked a very short, simple question and it was either missed or skipped over.

I'll ask again.

If you was being beat down and you had a gun, would you use it to stop the beating?




using a gun because Im losing a fist fight,,,nope


not the example I Want for kids either,, a fight is a fight, people have had them for ages,,,

the gun is unnecessary unless its on private property or someplace the other party has no business being,,,and was not invited,




So, you would risk losing your life in a fight?
Makes sense.
rofl rofl rofl

msharmony's photo
Fri 05/18/12 05:07 PM
Edited by msharmony on Fri 05/18/12 05:09 PM



I asked a very short, simple question and it was either missed or skipped over.

I'll ask again.

If you was being beat down and you had a gun, would you use it to stop the beating?




using a gun because Im losing a fist fight,,,nope


not the example I Want for kids either,, a fight is a fight, people have had them for ages,,,

the gun is unnecessary unless its on private property or someplace the other party has no business being,,,and was not invited,




So, you would risk losing your life in a fight?
Makes sense.
rofl rofl rofl



the implication is that THIS case has anything to do with ones life being in peril

which there isnt substantial evidence that it was BUT FOR there being a gun present,,,

msharmony's photo
Fri 05/18/12 05:16 PM
this person was 'beat down'




this person was in a scuffle



no photo
Fri 05/18/12 06:32 PM
Thank God Zimmerman was saved. I hope he can make some money from his new book. And live his good life. Thank you very much..:banana:

TJN's photo
Fri 05/18/12 08:09 PM

this person was 'beat down'




this person was in a scuffle




So it's ok if Martin would have beat Zimmerman to death?
The only reason Martin stoped beating him is because he was shot.

msharmony's photo
Sat 05/19/12 12:23 AM


this person was 'beat down'




this person was in a scuffle




So it's ok if Martin would have beat Zimmerman to death?
The only reason Martin stoped beating him is because he was shot.




its ok if Martin was the one defending himself from some stalker with a gun and no explanation of why he was following him,,,,

as opposed to 'pummeling' someone who merely questioned him,,,,

TJN's photo
Sat 05/19/12 04:41 AM
Edited by TJN on Sat 05/19/12 04:48 AM
its ok if Martin was the one defending himself from some stalker with a gun and no explanation of why he was following him,,,,

as opposed to 'pummeling' someone who merely questioned him,,,,

Following someone isn't against the law.
There were several breaking in that area.
Do you know if Zimmermann initiated the fight?
No
Do you know if Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun?
The gun wasn't pulled out until Zimmerman had a broken nose, blackened eyes, and gashes on the back of his head. I doubt Martin would have stoped running and gone back toward Zimmerman if he knew Zimmerman had a gun.

msharmony's photo
Sat 05/19/12 01:21 PM
THIS...

Do you know if Zimmermann initiated the fight?
No
Do you know if Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun?
The gun wasn't pulled out until Zimmerman had a broken nose, blackened eyes, and gashes on the back of his head. I doubt Martin would have stoped running and gone back toward Zimmerman if he knew Zimmerman had a gun.




is what the courts can determine,,,,

no photo
Sat 05/19/12 01:47 PM
I know that Zimmerman is alive and will reap millions from this. After all, he stood his ground and is still around.

msharmony's photo
Sat 05/19/12 01:49 PM

I know that Zimmerman is alive and will reap millions from this. After all, he stood his ground and is still around.



time will tell

no photo
Sat 05/19/12 02:44 PM
who beat up the woman?

willing2's photo
Sat 05/19/12 03:26 PM
Edited by willing2 on Sat 05/19/12 03:28 PM
I sure wish I had all the training it takes to be a professional investigator, Prosecuting attorney, defending attorney, judge and jury as some here seem to have.

Man, if I had all that, i sure wouldn't be sitting on a computer hashing on about a dead thug. I'd be out makin' th big bucks.

But, then wait. I know of no one on this site who has all those qualifications.slaphead laugh

Just a lot of suppositions and wishful thinkers.

Why wish Zimbob bad fortune for defending himself from a wanna'-be gangster?

So far, that's all the proof the courts have shown me?

Any experts here 'know' different?

I figure, if they drag it out a while, the white-haters will lose interest and find themselves some other 'tragedy' to dump their hate into.

Then, Zimbob will get the fair trial and hopefully, all the charges will be dismissed. Then, he and his family can go live in peace. I know, ole' Zimmy will have to live with the reality that he took a life. That's his bed.

What I find ironic is, how about all the negro mamas who's really innocent children happen to get in the way of a negro thug's bullet. Where is their justice and media attention.

They're lucky if the newspaper gets their names right in the obits.

I bet, but we'll never hear about it, there are many pissed off negro mamas who wish media and all those high-handed media whores like Jackson, Sharpton and their kind were interested in the negro sufferings.

Negros killing negros isn't newsworthy and they are all about hate whitey and nothing more.

JMO and realistically, that's all any ya'll pretend professionals have to offer is yo' opinion, no?rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl smokin


msharmony's photo
Sat 05/19/12 04:03 PM

who beat up the woman?



domestic abuse

msharmony's photo
Sat 05/19/12 04:06 PM

I sure wish I had all the training it takes to be a professional investigator, Prosecuting attorney, defending attorney, judge and jury as some here seem to have.

Man, if I had all that, i sure wouldn't be sitting on a computer hashing on about a dead thug. I'd be out makin' th big bucks.

But, then wait. I know of no one on this site who has all those qualifications.slaphead laugh

Just a lot of suppositions and wishful thinkers.

Why wish Zimbob bad fortune for defending himself from a wanna'-be gangster?

So far, that's all the proof the courts have shown me?

Any experts here 'know' different?

I figure, if they drag it out a while, the white-haters will lose interest and find themselves some other 'tragedy' to dump their hate into.

Then, Zimbob will get the fair trial and hopefully, all the charges will be dismissed. Then, he and his family can go live in peace. I know, ole' Zimmy will have to live with the reality that he took a life. That's his bed.

What I find ironic is, how about all the negro mamas who's really innocent children happen to get in the way of a negro thug's bullet. Where is their justice and media attention.

They're lucky if the newspaper gets their names right in the obits.

I bet, but we'll never hear about it, there are many pissed off negro mamas who wish media and all those high-handed media whores like Jackson, Sharpton and their kind were interested in the negro sufferings.

Negros killing negros isn't newsworthy and they are all about hate whitey and nothing more.

JMO and realistically, that's all any ya'll pretend professionals have to offer is yo' opinion, no?rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl smokin





in case it was missed the first twenty times it was explained

negros killing negros,,,,,is a different situation because there is usually no concern that the negros involved will be investigated and sufficiently charged


unlike this case where a young man/minor was killed and it was nearly immediately brushed off as self defense and nothing else,,,,



the attention here was because of the concern that JUSTICE Would not be served fairly or thoroughly,, not usually something people are concerned about when 'negros kill negros'

oldhippie1952's photo
Sat 05/19/12 04:08 PM
This is all conjecture and hearsay.

It will take a jury of peers to determine the deliverance of what justice according to the evidence they will get to see.

Just be aware the media is not above distorting something to "hook" more viewers/readers.