Topic: TSA branching out to the roadways now...........
msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:54 PM
Edited by msharmony on Fri 12/23/11 11:54 PM













I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.



IM no babe. I can see both sides. I guess to be enlightened I have to get stuck on negative and paranoid,, but those arent the glasses I choose,,,


It ceases being negative and paranoid when it's true. They want you to think it's paranoia because then you don't believe us and their power goes unchallenged. People who stand up for themselves don't make good slaves, they are a threat to them.



no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


well, seeing it all good is naive,, seeing it all bad is paranoid

its a broken record I hear in this thread, I just point out how imbalanced and misleading it is by offering the logical flip side,,,,

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:55 PM


Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:56 PM
I on the other hand will object if I am "detained" and set upon by dogs to sniff me and my property.

I will object to illegal search.

I will object and challenge false arrest.

By accepting these things, we give our permission for them.

If you give you permission, then you give up your rights.

Its like giving up the right to an attorney. That is when they will question you and use everything you say against you in a court of law.

Don't give up your rights.


Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:56 PM














I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.



IM no babe. I can see both sides. I guess to be enlightened I have to get stuck on negative and paranoid,, but those arent the glasses I choose,,,


It ceases being negative and paranoid when it's true. They want you to think it's paranoia because then you don't believe us and their power goes unchallenged. People who stand up for themselves don't make good slaves, they are a threat to them.



no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


When those in the system are working to serve a select few, knowingly or not, it IS a bad system. Period. I don't care if you agree with that or not, it is the plain fact. The system is unbalanced and unless we FORCE a balance again, it won't change.

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:57 PM



Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all. And its the only way I know for them to find information which actually does often times lead them to those who have and do commit crimes.


msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:58 PM
Edited by msharmony on Fri 12/23/11 11:59 PM















I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.



IM no babe. I can see both sides. I guess to be enlightened I have to get stuck on negative and paranoid,, but those arent the glasses I choose,,,


It ceases being negative and paranoid when it's true. They want you to think it's paranoia because then you don't believe us and their power goes unchallenged. People who stand up for themselves don't make good slaves, they are a threat to them.



no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


When those in the system are working to serve a select few, knowingly or not, it IS a bad system. Period. I don't care if you agree with that or not, it is the plain fact. The system is unbalanced and unless we FORCE a balance again, it won't change.



I guess when we decide who that 'select few' are,, the rest of us can uprise against 'them',,,,, right now

Im glad they have been there for me on SEVERAL occasions, and I wouldnt tie their hands in hindsight or they may not have been able to do a thing,,,and that would have made much more upset than being a little inconvenienced ever will,,,

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:59 PM




Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all.



Except if they find something they decide is bad or wrong, then it very much does. But again, you have no right to complain then because you consented to it in the first place, giving them the right to take away your freedom from you.

When it's all gone, don't say we didn't warn you.

msharmony's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:01 AM





Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all.



Except if they find something they decide is bad or wrong, then it very much does. But again, you have no right to complain then because you consented to it in the first place, giving them the right to take away your freedom from you.

When it's all gone, don't say we didn't warn you.



thats a garbage cliche

noone needs to 'warn' me that some people are corrupt and dishonest
but noone is going to convince me that ALL people are,, or all cops, or all of everyone in authority

I Can run across crooks in every area of life, and noone trying to convince me that everyone is a crook would have been able to help me prevent it,,,

no photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:01 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/24/11 12:02 AM
no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


Nobody is doing that.

You are generalizing and using misdirection and getting off point like you always do in these kinds of debates.

You must stay on point and be specific.

This is about the fourth amendment. This is about illegal unreasonable search and seizure. This is about illegal arrest.

If you consent to being stopped and searched, you give your permission and you give up your right.

If you object to it and they do it anyway, you have had your rights violated and you have been falsely arrested.

That is the bottom line.




msharmony's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:03 AM

no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


Nobody is doing that.

You are generalizing and using misdirection and getting off point like you always do in these kinds of debates.

You must stay on point and be specific.

This is about the fourth amendment. This is about illegal unreasonable search and seizure. This is about illegal arrest.

If you consent to being stopped and searched, you give you permission and you give up your right.

If you object to it and they do it anyway, you have had your rights violated and you have been falsely arrested.

That is the bottom line.







the bottom line is I have the RIGHT to give permission

and if I do, I have given nothing up


If I object to it and they do it anyway, they had better have REASONABLE cause, or my rights will have been violated



Kleisto's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:04 AM
Edited by Kleisto on Sat 12/24/11 12:04 AM






Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all.



Except if they find something they decide is bad or wrong, then it very much does. But again, you have no right to complain then because you consented to it in the first place, giving them the right to take away your freedom from you.

When it's all gone, don't say we didn't warn you.



thats a garbage cliche

noone needs to 'warn' me that some people are corrupt and dishonest
but noone is going to convince me that ALL people are,, or all cops, or all of everyone in authority


It is the truth though, once you give them the authority to say such and such a thing is wrong, what's to stop them to say something YOU LIKE is wrong too?

Martin Niemoller had a very famous quote about this, he said:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me. "

You need to learn this before it's too late. This is where we're heading.

msharmony's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:05 AM







Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all.



Except if they find something they decide is bad or wrong, then it very much does. But again, you have no right to complain then because you consented to it in the first place, giving them the right to take away your freedom from you.

When it's all gone, don't say we didn't warn you.



thats a garbage cliche

noone needs to 'warn' me that some people are corrupt and dishonest
but noone is going to convince me that ALL people are,, or all cops, or all of everyone in authority


It is the truth though, once you give them the authority to say such and such a thing is wrong, what's to stop them to say something YOU LIKE is wrong too?

Martin Niemoller had a very famous quote about this, he said:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me. "

You need to learn this before it's too late. This is where we're heading.




this is getting boring,, please stop assuming what I need to learn,,,I am as well learned as needed for purpose of this discussion...

no photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:05 AM
Never give up your rights.

Even when you get a ticket for something like a seat belt violation an you plead guilty, you have officially given up your rights in that matter.

It is written on the ticket. You give up your right to face your accuser and your right to question him. You give up your right to a trial, etc.

Some people feel that it is more convenient to give up their rights.

People are so conditioned to giving up their rights, pretty soon police will expect them to and get angry when they refuse. That is already the case.


Kleisto's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:05 AM


no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


Nobody is doing that.

You are generalizing and using misdirection and getting off point like you always do in these kinds of debates.

You must stay on point and be specific.

This is about the fourth amendment. This is about illegal unreasonable search and seizure. This is about illegal arrest.

If you consent to being stopped and searched, you give you permission and you give up your right.

If you object to it and they do it anyway, you have had your rights violated and you have been falsely arrested.

That is the bottom line.







the bottom line is I have the RIGHT to give permission

and if I do, I have given nothing up


Until they decide there is something you should give up.......like I said, the above quote, learn it.

Kleisto's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:06 AM








Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,


It's one thing to have rights restricted in the case of them harming another person, that's a simple thing to understand. But when you got them TELLING you what your rights are and what they aren't, it's another matter entirely. By allowing them searches and things like that, you give up your freedom as Jeannie said, to do as you wish so long as you don't harm another.



I disagree. To find, one must search. I cant very well ask them to be psychics and know without searching whether or not something has happened. Its an inconvenience, but doesnt stop me from doing what I wish at all.



Except if they find something they decide is bad or wrong, then it very much does. But again, you have no right to complain then because you consented to it in the first place, giving them the right to take away your freedom from you.

When it's all gone, don't say we didn't warn you.



thats a garbage cliche

noone needs to 'warn' me that some people are corrupt and dishonest
but noone is going to convince me that ALL people are,, or all cops, or all of everyone in authority


It is the truth though, once you give them the authority to say such and such a thing is wrong, what's to stop them to say something YOU LIKE is wrong too?

Martin Niemoller had a very famous quote about this, he said:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me. "

You need to learn this before it's too late. This is where we're heading.




this is getting boring,, please stop assuming what I need to learn,,,I am as well learned as needed for purpose of this discussion...


I call it as I see it, as does Jeannie. Sorry if you don't like it, but neither one of us are gonna back down from it.

msharmony's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:07 AM

Never give up your rights.

Even when you get a ticket for something like a seat belt violation an you plead guilty, you have officially given up your rights in that matter.

It is written on the ticket. You give up your right to face your accuser and your right to question him. You give up your right to a trial, etc.

Some people feel that it is more convenient to give up their rights.

People are so conditioned to giving up their rights, pretty soon police will expect them to and get angry when they refuse. That is already the case.





sometimes, if one has broken a law, it is more logical and 'convenient' to be honest and accept the judgment,,,

no photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:08 AM
If I object to it and they do it anyway, they had better have REASONABLE cause, or my rights will have been violated


The problem is if you object, they will then decide to be suspicious of you and they may arrest you and take you into custody.

Also, what is reasonable to them, may not be reasonable to you.

A random search is not reasonable cause.


msharmony's photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:10 AM



no, its paranoia when you see a whole system consisting of thousands or millions of individuals to be nothing but either good or bad


Nobody is doing that.

You are generalizing and using misdirection and getting off point like you always do in these kinds of debates.

You must stay on point and be specific.

This is about the fourth amendment. This is about illegal unreasonable search and seizure. This is about illegal arrest.

If you consent to being stopped and searched, you give you permission and you give up your right.

If you object to it and they do it anyway, you have had your rights violated and you have been falsely arrested.

That is the bottom line.







the bottom line is I have the RIGHT to give permission

and if I do, I have given nothing up


Until they decide there is something you should give up.......like I said, the above quote, learn it.



learn this

there is nowhere and nothing in life that will run with a GUARANTEE of never being unfair, or unjust, or never violating or offending anyone


NOWHERE AND NOTHING,, learn that that is an indisuptable fact of LIVING and no occupation or system has a monopoly on it


learn also , that for every instance where someone implemented something unfair or unjust or violate or offend, there are at least a hundred more where someone sacrificed to keep things fair and just, went out of their way not to violat or offend,


and then choose whether to gauge your whole life by the few or the many,,,,,

no photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:12 AM


Never give up your rights.

Even when you get a ticket for something like a seat belt violation an you plead guilty, you have officially given up your rights in that matter.

It is written on the ticket. You give up your right to face your accuser and your right to question him. You give up your right to a trial, etc.

Some people feel that it is more convenient to give up their rights.

People are so conditioned to giving up their rights, pretty soon police will expect them to and get angry when they refuse. That is already the case.





sometimes, if one has broken a law, it is more logical and 'convenient' to be honest and accept the judgment,,,


I agree.

I went to court over a seat belt ticket, and I was prepared to go to trial and looking forward to questioning the officer who stopped me.

But legally, he stopped me for a cracked windshield or so he claimed. That gave him legal cause. But he really stopped me because they were dishing out tickets for seat belts during a federally funded campaign.

I had a decent case, but the judge offered me a deal. I paid less of a fine and my record would be expunged after 6 months so I took the deal.

I gave up my right to a trial. I was disappointed, but I did it for convenience.




no photo
Sat 12/24/11 12:16 AM
But in Colorado, you can't (so far) be stopped simply for a seat belt violation. That might change in the future.

But you certainly can't be stopped for no reason... yet.

I take that back, they have had campaigns where they have checkpoints for drunk drivers but they tell the public where they are and when they will be in effect.