Topic: TSA branching out to the roadways now...........
no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:29 PM
I was a private investigator and I had to know a little about the law and about a citizen's rights.

I had to know what being arrested means.

People are free to come and go as they please in a free country.

If they are stopped and detained and prevented from coming and going as they please by the police that is an arrest.

If they are stopped and detained by a citizen who has witnessed them commit a crime, that is a citizens arrest.

If they are forcibly kidnapped, they are kidnapped.

If they are detained and are willing, that is voluntary.

If they decide they want to leave and are prevented from leaving THAT IS AN ARREST NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

If it is not an arrest, then it is KIDNAPPING.



msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:31 PM







I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:31 PM




Reasonable suspicion. Ever hear of innocent till proven guilty Msharmony? When cops can use "reasonable suspicion" to detain a person, it basically flies in the face of that and becomes guilty till proven innocent. But that's how it is in Amerika.


right, so everyone is innocent so long as they are never required to tell the police anything or disclose their identity ,,,,,


makes sense to me,,,

the crooks could have a field day,,,


They already do, you just don't see them.



of course I dont, Im not using that pair of glasses

the ones where anyone in authority is so much less caring or honest than I am





As I said, you'll learn.......

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:32 PM








I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


I will simply say pride comes before the fall, and leave it at that.

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:32 PM

I was a private investigator and I had to know a little about the law and about a citizen's rights.

I had to know what being arrested means.

People are free to come and go as they please in a free country.

If they are stopped and detained and prevented from coming and going as they please by the police that is an arrest.

If they are stopped and detained by a citizen who has witnessed them commit a crime, that is a citizens arrest.

If they are forcibly kidnapped, they are kidnapped.

If they are detained and are willing, that is voluntary.

If they decide they want to leave and are prevented from leaving THAT IS AN ARREST NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

If it is not an arrest, then it is KIDNAPPING.






this still doesnt answer whose definition of 'arrest' is being used and what makes it 'technically' correct

its an arrest or it isnt, and in the eyes of the law an arrest is not the same as a detention, not recorded the same, not treated the same

not the same

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:33 PM









I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


I will simply say pride comes before the fall, and leave it at that.



IM not proud at all, Im honest and balanced

there is a big difference

I would gamble I have been through more in my adult life, with police and in general, than most who are only half my age

and it tickles me when they feel a need to tell me about what I will 'learn' when it comes to living

,,,talk about pride,,,

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:34 PM
I say you are wrong. Sight your law please.


Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:34 PM










I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


I will simply say pride comes before the fall, and leave it at that.



IM not proud at all, Im honest and balanced

there is a big difference

I would gamble I have been through more in my adult life, with police and in general, than most who are only half my age

and it tickles me when they feel a need to tell me about what I will 'learn' when it comes to living

,,,talk about pride,,,



Think as you wish.......I tried.

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:38 PM
FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution]

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

To pass muster under the Fourth Amendment, detention must be 'reasonable. ' See U.S. v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531, 542-44 ('85) (analyzing constitutionality of length of traveler's border detention under Fourth Amendment reasonableness standard); Caban, 728 F.2d at 75 (considering whether duration of border detention without a hearing was reasonable).


http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f081.htm

Note:

P.S. Probable cause must be against you, not some random idea or random search of anyone because of the fabricated and absurd "war on terrorism"
which is simply created to support the idea of a police state.



no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:42 PM








I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.


Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:45 PM









I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.




I second that.

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:45 PM









I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,

Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:47 PM










I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:47 PM
Here is how they get away with detaining people.

It is assumed that people consent to being detained and questioned.

If a person rejects that assumption, and objects to being detained, by law, they have to let him go or hold him for questioning by force.

Because of some laws, some states and cities can legally get away with this. This is a shame because it is unconstitutional.

But if you ask them if you are under arrest, and they say "no" then you must be permitted to leave. If they don't permit you to leave then technically you are under arrest.

They might call it "being detained" all they want, but it is the same thing.




msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:49 PM











I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.



IM no babe. I can see both sides. I guess to be enlightened I have to get stuck on negative and paranoid,, but those arent the glasses I choose,,,

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:50 PM

Here is how they get away with detaining people.

It is assumed that people consent to being detained and questioned.

If a person rejects that assumption, and objects to being detained, by law, they have to let him go or hold him for questioning by force.

Because of some laws, some states and cities can legally get away with this. This is a shame because it is unconstitutional.

But if you ask them if you are under arrest, and they say "no" then you must be permitted to leave. If they don't permit you to leave then technically you are under arrest.

They might call it "being detained" all they want, but it is the same thing.







this is correct

there are two seperate states

either DETAINED, or ARRESTED

they arent the same state,,,,

they are like studying for a test and passing the test

one is a potential precursor for the latter

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:51 PM
Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.




Kleisto's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:51 PM












I am no frog at all

I am realistic and logical

I realize , police arent psychics, they have to VERIFY information before they can arrest someone, and they usually need some time to detain them in order to make those verifications

I dont know yet any people personally who were just stopped and arrested for 'no reason',,I have heard of people being arrested for breaking laws though,,,


Wow then you have lead a very sheltered life.

I know people who were picked up off of the street for being drunk or looking like a hippie and taken in to police station and beat up in the elevator and thrown in the drunk tank.


I can do one better, one guy got a DUI and I believe lost his license for sitting in a PARKED car after having been drinking. Wasn't driving, keys weren't even in the ignition from what I recall. Is that very fair? Once you allow such subjective use of law enforcement you pretty much ask for corruption.



yes, thats fair. one shouldnt be behind the drivers wheel intoxicated. Noone knows that you were or werent driving and anyone can claim they were just taking a nap,,,,,,


You may as well work for the damn system with how much you kiss it's butt msharmony. It is staggering to me.



I dont kiss butt Kleisto, I just try to see people for who they are and I try to think LOGICALLY about whats involved in any situation,,,,


Says you, my definition is logic is nothing likes yours.......but oh well......you'll learn one day even if it's the hard way.



Ive already lived nearly twice your years , and have not yet learned whatever is lingering in that mind of yours

thankfully, IM doubting that I will,,,


Kleisto is wise beyond his years. You on the other hand are a babe in the woods.

That's okay.

I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.






HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

if you only knew


but keep assuming,,,,,I wonder what makes him one wise and one a babe, besides which one agrees or disagrees with us,,,,


From your statements here......we know enough. When you continually, deny, deny, deny the reality that is right in front of you, you are a babe. That's my take on it.



IM no babe. I can see both sides. I guess to be enlightened I have to get stuck on negative and paranoid,, but those arent the glasses I choose,,,


It ceases being negative and paranoid when it's true. They want you to think it's paranoia because then you don't believe us and their power goes unchallenged. People who stand up for themselves don't make good slaves, they are a threat to them.

msharmony's photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:52 PM

Bit by bit these little side laws have totally made the Bill of rights meaningless and obsolete.

Eventually everyone will just accept the police state and begin to feel "privileged" just to be able to come and go as they please on the street because they certainly don't have the "right" to do so.







I feel my rights end where others begin, and I live in a pretty highly populated place, so I will never expect those rights to be absolute or to never come with any inconvenience or responsiblity on my part,,,

no photo
Fri 12/23/11 11:53 PM
Therefore, you, msharmony, do not have the right to walk down the street or drive across town.

Your so called rights, are simply privileges granted to you by your master who can deprive you of them at any time for no reason.

You are not free.