Take all the issue you want. That is your freedom to do so.

But the dissemination of "propaganda" is what you see every day on the national news in my opinion.

What you think is "known fact" and what I think is "known fact" can be debated.

If you don't believe what is being said, and if you don't agree with 9-11 theories that is certainly your right to do so. I have look closely at the official spin and I don't buy it. I've made up my mind that it is not the truth.

But I have a reason for what I say and I have sources that I respect so I take issue with you telling me that I am spreading "propaganda."

I find it very interesting that when hate threads about Muslims get started nobody seems to take issue with that.

I do not support extreme Islamist any more than I support extreme Zionists. I just feel that both sides of the story need to be told.

I usually always have references or links to consider. I don't pull this stuff out of my hat.

I don't mind intelligent debate. But I do mind people who continually try to silence me just because they don't believe or agree with what I am saying.

If you don't believe it, and if you don't want to hear it, just don't read the thread.

Propaganda is everywhere. I see it on both sides of the issue all the time. It is up to the individual to try to ascertain what it true and what is not.

I have yet to hear a valid argument in favor of Zionism or a valid reason why anyone should support it.

Have you got any?

Interesting!
What was the cause of the widespread Hate and killings of Jews through the Middle Ages?
Zionism caused that too?
Something on that whole Zionist-Argument just doesn't fit!
Jews have been hated for twothousand Years,NOT just since 1948!
How do you explain that?

There are many good reasons to support Zionism. The Jews need a
homeland because they are so widely persecuted for their religious
beliefs and due to bigotry. This has been happening for literally
thousands of years. Desperate for refuge they longed to return to
their original homeland in Israel where they trace their ancestry.
Genetic studies even show a link to modern Jews and Israel. But
they also have a cultural, historical and emotional tie to the land
where they had their original safe haven and where their religion
which was the first of the Abrahamic religions and the first western
monotheistic religion was born.

Many Jews never left this land but over the last 150 years or so
many more Jews migrated to Israel in search of refuge. When they
became the overwhelmingly largest population of the area after World
War II and the Nazi era they re-founded Israel and were immediately
attacked by neighboring Arabs who hated the idea of any Jewish
presence again in the area. But with no where else to go, the Jews
in Israel - the Jewish Zionists - fought back and were able to
resist and keep their newly re-formed state of Israel.

Now that Jewish Zionist state is the only state in the region which
has freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press,
a free and open democratic process and is also a safe haven for all
Jews if they wish to travel or live there safe from persecution. It
is a wonderful vibrant country with tremendous education, art, literary,
healthcare, scientific, political and religious institutions.
Despite Israel's incredibly small population and land size it has
a disproportionate share of leaders in many of these area of human
endeavor.

So there are many things to admire about Zionists and Zionism.

This certainly gets to the heart of the matter. I am also a
strong advocate for freedom of speech. But I don't believe that
known lies demonizing a group such as the Jews or any other
minority should be spread as the truth. Particularly lies which
have been used in the past as support of genocide.

The right of free speech stops at hate speech - the spreading of
lies with the intent to injure other people. This is the same as
"yelling FIRE in a crowded theater" when it is well known that
there is no fire.

In the past, some of you have stated a belief in the known false
conspiracy by Jews of a worldwide global financial system as
reported in the thoroughly discredited "Protocols of the Elders
of Zion". These very same documents and arguments were favorites
of Adolf Hitler and promoted as fact by Nazi Germany even though
at that time they were known to be false. These anti-Zionist
conspiracy theories were used then and are used now to foment
hatred of Jews and to justify violence (genocide, rocket attacks,
bus bombings and cafe bombings) against Jews.

Now I ask each of you - do you agree or disagree that
the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a faked conspiracy theory
which is completely untrue?

Do you agree or disagree that there is no global conspiracy by
either the Jews or Zionists to control the world or manipulate
people?

Now I am not saying that Nazi propaganda should not be published.
It has to be published to be discussed academically and examined
historically and psychologically. Mein Kampf is suitable for a
class that describes Hitler's inhumanity and misanthropy. But it
should never be taught as the truth! I believe in free and open
debate just not in spreading well known lies. There is no need to
republish Mein Kampf and the Protocols here over and over!



Mingle2 has no obligation to tolerate use of its forums to spread
Nazi propaganda under the guise of free speech. Let those who wish
to read white supremacist hate speech or Mein Kampf or the Protocols
of the Elders of Zion read them at the university where they can
be taught how it is all a pack of hateful lies used to justify
discrimination and murder of innocent people. The lies do not need
to be reposted on these forums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fraudulent, antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for achieving global domination. It was first published in Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, and disseminated internationally in the early part of the twentieth century. Henry Ford funded printing of 500,000 copies which were distributed throughout the United States in the 1920s.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were major proponents of the text: It was studied, as if factual, in German classrooms after the Nazi Party came to power in 1933, despite having been exposed as fraudulent years before. In the opinion of historian Norman Cohn, the Protocols was Hitler's primary justification for initiating the Holocaust — his "warrant for genocide."[1]

The Protocols purports to document the minutes of a late 19th-century meeting of Jewish leaders discussing their goal of global Jewish hegemony by subverting the morals of Gentiles, and by controlling the press and the world's economies. It is still widely available today, still presented, typically, as a genuine document, on the Internet and in print, in numerous languages.

The truth about the Protocols.

The definition of forgery is an unauthorised copy of the original.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was copied from a nineteenth century novel by Hermann Goedsche (Biarritz, 1868) which claims that a secret Jewish cabal is plotting to take over the world.

The basic story was written by Goedsche, a German novelist who used the pseudonym of Sir John Retcliffe.

It is suspected that the idea for the story came from another writer, Maurice Joly, whose Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864) involved a plot aimed at opposing Napoleon III. Therefore, it has been determined that the Protocols are a forgery of a plagiarized fiction.

Enter the Russians.

The Russians used big chunks of a Russian translation of Goedsche's novel, published it separately as the Protocols, and claimed they were authentic. (Maybe they believed they were.)

The skeptic's diary states that their purpose was political: to strengthen the czar Nicholas II's position by exposing his opponents as allies with those who were part of a massive conspiracy to take over the world.

Henry Ford said: "The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now."

So if someone is carrying out the directives in the Protocols, it really doesn't matter if they are a forgery or not or where they originally came from. Most books of fiction are usually based on truth with a bit of artistic license added.

One only has to pay attention to what has happened in the world and what is happening now and decide for themselves whether or not the Protocols are being utilized by someone or some group trying to take over the world in the same way.

Freedom of speech includes the right to tell the truth and/or reveal what you believe to be true, and to voice an opinion about any political movement.

Freedom of speech includes the right to expose lies and speak the truth as you believe it.

However it is well known that any facts and/or truth or news that exposes wrong doing by Israel or reflects badly on the Zionists movement is quickly stifled by any means possible.

It is in these cases that Israel's claim to granting "freedom of speech" becomes a lie.

The media is largely owned and controlled by Pro-Zionists. We have named names, and corporations. It is no secret. It is the truth.

There are always two sides to every story. Zionist's don't want the other side of the story to be told.

That is the side of a bloody conquest. Its not pretty. Israel claims the right to the land by "right of conquest." (They took it.)

Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews because so many people confuse political Zionism with the Jewish people all around the world.

There are millions of Jews who are Anti-Zionist and believe that Zionism is heresy.

actually it was Plagiarized from a Novel that had nothing to do with Jews at all!

What Novel?

Where do you get your information on that? I got mine from The Skeptics Diary.

I would like to see your sources. Here is mine:

http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html

Also: From Wiki,

Sir John Retcliffe was the pseudonym of the German writer Herrmann Ottomar Friedrich Goedsche (12 February 1815 – 8 November 1878) primarily remembered for his antisemitism and the extent to which his fiction indirectly contributed to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Note: the term anti-Semitism did not even exist during his lifetime, but it was coined in Germany. Therefore if people are calling him that, then it must have been about Jews.

Does our library know there's another word for anti-Semitism?

British novelist Martin Amis recently confessed to being at a loss for words whenever he encounters the hysterical, "endocrinal state" that seems to befall certain people when the subject of Israel comes up in conversation.

By The Vancouver Sun February 12, 2008



British novelist Martin Amis recently confessed to being at a loss for words whenever he encounters the hysterical, "endocrinal state" that seems to befall certain people when the subject of Israel comes up in conversation.

"I just don't understand it," Amis said. "I know we're supposed to be grown up about it and not fling around accusations of anti-Semitism, but I don't see any other explanation."

And this got me to thinking. If it's not anti-Semitism, then what's the proper word for it?

What is the right word for a book like Greg Felton's The Host and the Parasite: How Israel's Fifth Column Consumed America?

What is the right word for Felton's thesis, which is that a Zionist "junta" was at work on Sept. 11, 2001, and that al-Qaida is a mere concoction in a secret plan to subvert the American Constitution, demonize Muslims and commit mass murder?

What do you call it when the Vancouver Public Library decides to present Felton, an apologist for the book-banning, journalist-jailing Iranian theocracy, as the featured author on the evening of Feb. 25, and as the library's contribution to national Freedom to Read Week?

What are we allowed to call Felton, who traces his Zionist plot back to the 1940s, when these same Zionists made "common cause" with the Nazis to rid Europe of its Jews, and participated in the herding of Jews into Hitler's gas chambers?

What Felton calls himself is an award-winning investigative reporter and Middle East specialist. His last legitimate journalism job appears to have been with a Vancouver weekly newspaper in the late 1990s, when his brief career as a columnist came to a famously embarrassing end. The column that got Felton into such trouble was also about Zionists.

In that column, Felton traced Zionist swindles and trickery back through time and across Europe to a massive coverup of events that occurred in the Caucasus Mountains about 1,000 years ago.

Europe's Jews aren't Jews at all, Felton wrote. Almost all of them are "Khazars," a long-extinct Turkic tribe from somewhere north of the Caspian Sea.

Felton has been peddling this kind of thing ever since his departure from the weekly Vancouver Courier. He now writes for fringe Arab webzines and an online journal out of Tehran affiliated with the Iranian theocracy's Islamic Propagation Organization.

Felton's byline also routinely shows up on neo-Nazi websites, conspiracy-theory bulletin boards, and sometimes even in pamphlets of the Marxist-Leninist sort. And now, Vancouverites can hear Greg Felton in person.

It seemed like a good idea at the time, Janice Douglas, VPL's director of youth services and community relations told me.

Felton approached the library looking for a gig. There was a "banned book" cachet about his tome, and the library hadn't hosted a Freedom To Read event in years. And Felton's book was "a book that people might not feel free to read."

That last bit was odd, I thought. From Dandelion Books, Felton's obscure little Arizona publisher, you can readily acquire titles about the lost continent of Atlantis, space aliens, New Age mysticism, mind control, 9-11 conspiracies, and even a novel by Yvonne Ridley, the disgraced, Taliban-admiring British journalist now working for an Iranian television network.

Whatever the right word is for literature like that, one thing that becomes immediately clear from reading Felton's polemics is that he's well aware of the mischief that even a writer of his stature can make with words.

You can choose words that hide meaning, rather than reveal it. You can avoid using words that would betray what you really are.

You can avoid saying "Jew" by saying "Khazar," or decide to say Zionist when everyone knows you really mean Jew.

The Khazar legend was a staple of 1930s-era European racism. Long after it had been wholly discredited by geneticists, linguists, archeologists and historians, the lie was revived by late 20th-century neo-Nazis.

Neo-Nazis find it useful as a twisted justification for their Jew-hatred. For Israel's more conspiracy-prone enemies, the Khazar legend completely delegitimizes the notion of Israel as a Jewish homeland. That's how Felton employs it, and he gets extra mileage out of it as further evidence of the world's real, hushed-up history, which the Jews don't want you to know.

No, wait. Wrong word. Felton doesn't use the word "Jews" quite that way. It's the Zionists who are behind the curtain with their hands on the levers. Sometimes he uses two words to describe them. Zionist Jews. Jewish lobby. Zionist parasite.

When he calls them Khazars, he can attribute to them "the declared purpose of dispossessing and terrorizing" the Palestinian people, and by that one word -- Khazars -- the Palestinians become the only real Semites in the Holy Land, and Israel itself becomes anti-Semitic.

See how it works?

In Felton's words, Hamas is not an Islamist death cult animated by that classic anti-Semitic forgery, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's the equivalent of the French resistance during the Second World War, the "passionate defender of Palestinians."

There are no suicide bombings in Felton's lexicon. There are only "sacrifice bombings." Israel itself is a creation of the Nazis. It's the "Zionist Reich."

And that's the sort of ugliness that rushes in the moment the word "Israel" is mentioned in certain fashionable company these days. Martin Amis settled on the words "secularized anti-Semitism" to describe it.

If those aren't the right words, then words fail me.

Terry Glavin's latest book is Waiting for the Macaws and other stories from the age of extinctions.
© (c) CanWest MediaWorks Publications Inc.

sound familiar?

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=8f4a3c29-1ad4-43fc-bb49-b627feac1810&p=1


and the Book that was plagiarized for the Protocols was actually a Novel about a plot against Napoleon III!

http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html

The proper word is anti-Zionism.

(Most of the Zionists aren't Semites.)

And the actual applied meaning of anti-Semitism is anti-Jewry or anti-Jew.

Zionism does not mean "Jewish."

The term Anti-Semite is a racist term.

Zionism is a political movement to establish the state of Israel.

Its very simple really.

http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html

Protocols of the Elders of Zion

"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now." --Henry Ford, 2-17-21, whose newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, cited the Protocols as evidence of an alleged Jewish threat until at least 1927

"To what extent the whole existence of this people is based on a continuous lie is shown incomparably by the Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion...." --Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery made in Russia for the Okhrana (secret police), which blames the Jews for the country's ills. It was first privately printed in 1897 and was made public in 1905. It is copied from a nineteenth century novel by Hermann Goedsche (Biarritz, 1868) and claims that a secret Jewish cabal is plotting to take over the world.

The basic story was composed by Goedsche, a German novelist and anti-Semite who used the pseudonym of Sir John Retcliffe. Goedsche stole the main story from another writer, Maurice Joly, whose Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864) involved a Hellish plot aimed at opposing Napoleon III. Goedsche's original contribution consists mainly of introducing Jews to do the plotting to take over the world.

The Russians used big chunks of a Russian translation of Goedsche's novel, published it separately as the Protocols, and claimed they were authentic. Their purpose was political: to strengthen the czar Nicholas II's position by exposing his opponents as allies with those who were part of a massive conspiracy to take over the world. Thus, the Protocols are a forgery of a plagiarized fiction.

The Protocols were exposed as a forgery by Lucien Wolf in The Jewish Bogey and the Forged Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (London: Press Committee of the Jewish Board of Deputies, 1920). In 1921, Philip Graves, a correspondent for the London Times, publicized the forgery. Herman Bernstein in The Truth About "The Protocols of Zion": A Complete Exposure (1935) also tried and failed to convince the world of the forgery.

The Protocols were published in 1920 in a Michigan newspaper started by Henry Ford mainly to attack Jews and Communists. Even after they were exposed as a forgery, Ford's paper continued to cite the document. Adolf Hitler later used the Protocols to help justify his attempt to exterminate Jews during World War II.

The Protocols hoax continues to fool people and is still cited by certain individuals and groups as the cause of all their woes.


Besides,the Topic of this Thread is the Rachel Corrie Story,which looks more and more improbable the deeper one delves into it!
It s proving to become a Liability to the Palestinians the more they try to milk it!
But it seems that outsiders have ,for some reason a special interest in bringing the same up again and again,even though there is enough evidence that the whole thing is another Exploit of Pallywood Productions!

That is not exactly true. Some of the idea's for Goedsche's book is thought to have come from the book by Maurice Joly, whose Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864) involved a plot aimed at opposing Napoleon III.

You should read more carefully.

The protocols actually mostly came from Goedschhe's book.

I was responding to Slowhand's direct question about the protocols.



The post by me was my answer about the protocols.

I would not call the Protocols "a faked conspiracy theory which is completely untrue."

So I posted my best answer about the protocols reworded in my own words, unlike you who have cut and pasted material along with your own comments, so that it is hard to tell what you wrote and what you copied and pasted.

The problem with threads like this is...

Anyone that opposes the Zionist Political agenda have to be put down, ridiculed and made to look as though they are anti Jew

One more time ....I am not Anti Jew I am anti Zionist .

Freedom of speech is one of the greatest freedoms we have and those freedoms are being eroded on a daily basis by a powerful press.

If you disagree with someones point of view then just say so.

I happen to believe that Zionism is a Political Movement not a Jewish movement.

Joe Biden....God Help Us...Is a self confessed Zionist.

does it really matter where the Hoax was plagiarized from?

OMG,Joe Biden the Catholic is a Zionist!
No wonder he threatened to cram those Rosary-Beads,you know...................

I would like to know the answer as well .

Jew-hatred. Many Semites are non-Jews. It creates an interesting situation where you could proclaim a Semitic Muslim who calls for the death of all Jews an anti-Semite and he could reply "Of course I'm not anti-Semitic! I'm a Semite, why would I hate myself?".

There you have it. Although the Protocols of the Elders of Zion
are known to be a false plagiarized from fiction document and
this has been documented for almost a hundred years....

And, they were used as Nazi propaganda to incite hatred of Jews.
Used as an excuse for genocide.

Still - there are those on these forums who promote them even
now having been shown clearly that they are lies and Nazi
propaganda!

No wonder that they continually recycle threads denouncing
Zionists and repeat hateful anti-Semitic arguments. They believe
Nazi propaganda!



from my previously cited article which apparently these people
cannot seem to understand....really this is high school history
folks

for more info read the Wiki, the references listed in it
including the following:

Bein, Alex (1990). The Jewish question: biography of a world problem. Fairleigh Dickinson Univ Press. p. 339. ISBN 9780838632529. and See "The Truth about the Protocols: A Literary Forgery", The Times, 16, 17 and 18 August 1921.

"Jewish World Plot": An Exposure. The Source of "The Protocols of Zion". Truth at Last by Philip Graves published at The Times, August 16–18, 1921

http://emperor.vwh.net/antisem/first.pdf

The New York Times, September 4, 1921. Front page, Section 7

The History of a Lie at Project Gutenberg (read it free online)

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/19200


=-=-=-=-=

Elements of the Protocols were plagiarized from Joly's fictional Dialogue in Hell, a thinly-veiled attack on the political ambitions of Napoleon III, who, represented by the non-Jewish character Machiavelli,[10] plots to rule the world. Joly, a monarchist and legitimist, was imprisoned in France for 15 months as a direct result of his book's publication. Ironically, scholars have noted that Dialogue in Hell was itself a plagiarism, at least in part, of a novel by Eugene Sue, Les Mystères du Peuple (1849–1856).[11]
Comparison between The Protocols and Maurice Joly's Dialogue in Hell

The Protocols 1–19 closely follow the order of Maurice Joly's Dialogues 1–17. For example:
Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu The Protocols of the Elders of Zion

How are loans made? By the issue of bonds entailing on the Government the obligation to pay interest proportionate to the capital it has been paid. Thus, if a loan is at 5%, the State, after 20 years, has paid out a sum equal to the borrowed capital. When 40 years have expired it has paid double, after 60 years triple: yet it remains debtor for the entire capital sum.
— Montesquieu, Dialogues, p. 209



A loan is an issue of Government paper which entails an obligation to pay interest amounting to a percentage of the total sum of the borrowed money. If a loan is at 5%, then in 20 years the Government would have unnecessarily paid out a sum equal to that of the loan in order to cover the percentage. In 40 years it will have paid twice; and in 60 thrice that amount, but the loan will still remain as an unpaid debt.
— Protocols, p. 77

Like the god Vishnu, my press will have a hundred arms, and these arms will give their hands to all the different shades of opinion throughout the country.
— Machiavelli, Dialogues, p. 141



These newspapers, like the Indian god Vishnu, will be possessed of hundreds of hands, each of which will be feeling the pulse of varying public opinion.
— Protocols, p. 43

Now I understand the figure of the god Vishnu; you have a hundred arms like the Indian idol, and each of your fingers touches a spring.
— Montesquieu, Dialogues, p. 207



Our Government will resemble the Hindu god Vishnu. Each of our hundred hands will hold one spring of the social machinery of State.
— Protocols, p. 65

Philip Graves brought this plagiarism to light in a series of articles in The Times in 1921, the first published evidence that the Protocols was not an authentic document.[12]

English language imprints

On October 27 and 28, 1919, the Philadelphia Public Ledger published excerpts of an English language translation as the "Red Bible," deleting all references to the purported Jewish authorship and re-casting the document as a Bolshevik manifesto.[44] The author of the articles was the paper's correspondent at the time, Carl W. Ackerman, who later became the head of the journalism department at Columbia University. On May 8, 1920, an article[45] in The Times followed German translation and appealed for an inquiry into what it called an "uncanny note of prophecy". In the leader (editorial) entitled "The Jewish Peril, a Disturbing Pamphlet: Call for Inquiry", Wickham Steed wrote about The Protocols:

What are these 'Protocols'? Are they authentic? If so, what malevolent assembly concocted these plans and gloated over their exposition? Are they forgery? If so, whence comes the uncanny note of prophecy, prophecy in part fulfilled, in part so far gone in the way of fulfillment?".[46]

Steed later retracted his endorsement of The Protocols after they were exposed as a forgery.

United States

Title page of 1920 edition from Boston.

In the United States, Henry Ford sponsored the printing of 500,000 copies, and, from 1920 to 1922, published a series of antisemitic articles titled "The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem", in The Dearborn Independent, a newspaper he owned. In 1921, Ford cited evidence of a Jewish threat: "The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are 16 years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time."[47] In 1927, however, the courts ordered Ford to retract his publication and apologize; he complied, claiming his assistants had duped him. He remained an admirer of Nazi Germany, however.[48]

In 1934, an anonymous editor expanded the compilation with "Text and Commentary" (pages 136–141). The production of this uncredited compilation was a 300-page book, an inauthentic expanded edition of the twelfth chapter of Nilus's 1905 book on the coming of the anti-Christ. It consists of substantial liftings of excerpts of articles from Ford's antisemitic periodical The Dearborn Independent. This 1934 text circulates most widely in the English-speaking world, as well as on the internet. The "Text and Commentary" concludes with a comment on Haim Weizman's October 6, 1920 remark at a banquet: "A beneficent protection which God has instituted in the life of the Jew is that He has dispersed him all over the world". Marsden, who was dead by then, is credited with the following assertion:

It proves that the Learned Elders exist. It proves that Dr. Weizmann knows all about them. It proves that the desire for a "National Home" in Palestine is only camouflage and an infinitesimal part of the Jew's real object. It proves that the Jews of the world have no intention of settling in Palestine or any separate country, and that their annual prayer that they may all meet "Next Year in Jerusalem" is merely a piece of their characteristic make-believe. It also demonstrates that the Jews are now a world menace, and that the Aryan races will have to domicile them permanently out of Europe.[49]

The Times exposes a forgery, 1921

The Times exposed the Protocols as a forgery on August 16–18, 1921

In 1920-1921, the history of the concepts found in the Protocols was traced back to the works of Goedsche and Jacques Crétineau-Joly by Lucien Wolf (an English Jewish journalist), and published in London in August 1921. But a dramatic exposé occurred in the series of articles in The Times by its Constantinople reporter, Philip Graves, who discovered the plagiarism from the work of Maurice Joly.

According to writer Peter Grose, Allen Dulles, who was in Constantinople developing relationships in post-Ottoman political structures, discovered 'the source' of the documentation ultimately provided to The Times. Grose writes that The Times extended a loan to the source, a Russian émigré who refused to be identified, with the understanding the loan would not be repaid.[50] Colin Holmes, a lecturer in economic history of Sheffield University, identified the émigré as Michael Raslovleff, a self-identified antisemite, who gave the information to Graves so as not to "give a weapon of any kind to the Jews, whose friend I have never been."[51]

In the first article of Graves' series, titled "A Literary Forgery", the editors of The Times wrote, "our Constantinople Correspondent presents for the first time conclusive proof that the document is in the main a clumsy plagiarism. He has forwarded us a copy of the French book from which the plagiarism is made."[52] The New York Times reprinted the articles on September 4, 1921.[53] In the same year, an entire book[54] documenting the hoax was published in the United States by Herman Bernstein. Despite this widespread and extensive debunking, the Protocols continued to be regarded as important factual evidence by antisemites.

I have posted the information on this article many times and
specifically pointed it out to you before many times. It is in
the Wiki article on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion although
you apparently refuse to read the truth.

Your own source at the Skeptics diary ends with this comment:

The Protocols hoax continues to fool people and is still cited by certain individuals and groups as the cause of all their woes.

Some of you who are repeating things straight out of the Protocols
are the people this refers to as having been fooled just like
Henry Ford!! Ford did apologize and retract his statements about
Jews acknowledging his antisemitism. He said he would have NEVER
published them had he known the truth.




Now, you know the truth and you should not republish such garbage.

Here is Ford's letter of apology
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/American_Jewish_Year_Book/Volume_29/Statement_by_Henry_Ford

STATEMENT BY HENRY FORD TO LOUIS MARSHALL

For some time past I have given consideration to the series of articles concerning Jews which since 1920 have appeared in The Dearborn Independent. Some of them have been reprinted in pamphlet form under the title "The International Jew." Although both publications are my property, it goes without saying that in the multitude of my activities it has been impossible for me to devote personal attention to their management or to keep informed as to their contents. It has therefore inevitably followed that the conduct and policies of these publications had to be delegated to men whom I placed in charge of them and upon whom I relied implicitly.

To my great regret I have learned that Jews generally, and particularly those of this country, not only resent these publications as promoting anti-Semitism, but regard me as their enemy. Trusted friends with whom I have conferred recently have assured me in all sincerity that in their opinion the character of the charges and insinuations made against the Jews, both individually and collectively, contained in many of the articles which have been circulated periodically in The Dearborn Independent and have been reprinted in the pamphlets mentioned, justifies the righteous indignation entertained by Jews everywhere toward me because of the mental anguish occasioned by the unprovoked reflections made upon them.

This has led me to direct my personal attention to this subject, in order to ascertain the exact nature of these articles. As a result of this survey I confess that I am deeply mortified that this journal, which is intended to be constructive and not destructive, has been made the medium for resurrecting exploded fictions, for giving currency to the so-called Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion, which have been demonstrated, as I learn, to be gross forgeries, and for contending that the Jews have been engaged in a conspiracy to control the capital and the industries of the world, besides laying at their door many offenses against decency, public order and good morals.

Had I appreciated even the general nature, to say nothing of the details ,of these utterances, I would have forbidden their circulation without a moment's hesitation, because I am fully aware of the virtues of the Jewish people as a whole, of what they and their ancestors have done for civilization and for mankind and toward the development of commerce and industry, of their sobriety and diligence, their benevolence and their unselfish interest in the public welfare.

Of course there are black sheep in every flock, as there are among men of all races, creeds and nationalities who are at times evildoers. It is wrong, however, to judge a people by a few individuals, and I therefore join in condemning unreservedly all wholesale denunciations and attacks.

Those who know me can bear witness that it is not in my nature to inflict insult upon and to occasion pain to anybody, and that it has been my effort to free myself from prejudice. Because of that I frankly confess that I have been greatly shocked as a result of my study and examination of the files of The Dearborn Independent and of the pamphlets entitled "The International Jew." I deem it to be my duty as an honorable man to make amends for the wrong done to the Jews as fellow-men and brothers, by asking their forgiveness for the harm that I have unintentionally committed, by retracting so far as lies within my power the offensive charges laid at their door by these publications, and by giving them the unqualified assurance that henceforth they may look to me for friendship and good will.

It is needless to add that the pamphlets which have been distributed throughout the country and in foreign lands will be withdrawn fiom circulation, that in every way possible I will make it known that they have my unqualified disapproval, and that henceforth The Dearborn Independent will be conducted under such auspices that articles reflecting upon the Jews will never again appear in its columns.

Finally, let me add that this statement is made on my own initiative and wholly in the interest of right and justice and in accordance with what I regard as my solemn duty as a man and as a citizen.
HENRY FORD.

Dearborn, Mich., June 30, 1927.

=-=-=-=

Also just reposted my sources again in my last post just to be certain everyone can see them.

Here again is the link to the Wiki article which is heavily
referenced. It is not disputable. It is a matter of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#Literary_forgery

You might as well dispute whether or not the earth is flat.
The earth is an ellipsoid. It is not going to change just because
one is misinformed, uneducated or biased against the truth on
whatever grounds!

I posted what I found about the the Protocols and find my post to be reasonable and true.

I don't consider wiki to be completely unbiased where Zionism is concerned.

I have great respect for Henry Ford and agree with what he said here:

"Of course there are black sheep in every flock, as there are among men of all races, creeds and nationalities who are at times evildoers. It is wrong, however, to judge a people by a few individual, and I therefore join in condemning unreservedly all wholesale denunciations and attacks."


The black sheep in Israel's flock are the people behind the creation and operation of political Zionism, which is the creation and expansion of the State of Israel by means of war and conquest.

Zionism is the real enemy of the Jewish people.
Zionism is a political movement.
Zionism does not mean "Jewish."

I have repeated this over and over.
The problem is when people (mostly Zionists) try to blur the meaning of Zionism and claim that it represents all Jews.

It does not.
Millions of Jews refuse to claim Israel and Zionism as their owand are in fact anti-Zionist.

Therefore, all the Jewish people will never return to the State of Israel and the mythical religious prophecies that people cling to will never happen.