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| Topic: MY 1ST POST HERE, I JUST WITNESSED A MIRACLE! | |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people.  They sure were horrible!  Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. The Bible states the opposite of what you're implying here... Just read it for yourself. |
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Edited by
luv2roknroll
on
Sat 11/05/11 10:38 AM
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? |
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I am happy for anyone who finds peace in their version of god whatever that may be. I think it's a beautiful thing whenever anyone realizes there is something in the universe mightier than themselves. That's fine, but the problem comes in when one tries to preach their religion onto another a person and expects them to believe exactly like they do, or be gone with them. That's where you have problems. If you wanna go to church, read a book or whatever, fine that's your own personal business. I may tell you how I feel about said places and things, but what you believe is up to you. But when you start telling others they are lost or need a savior and such that only your religion has, and the only way to find your way back is through it, then you're going too far. It's not personal anymore at that point. So like I said, you wanna believe it, fine, but don't force it on others who may see it different. Now Kleisto, you know I LOVE YOU  and you know, this is just my opinion. DONT take it personally, because it applies to all who feel like you do, about organized religion. I fail to understand, your being in this section, and this is why. No one is forcing you to read this thread, that is posted in a religious section, ESPECIALLY, if you feel, its content, is trying to sway, the way YOU want to believe, in God. If I felt, like you do,(and I very well, may end up there, when all is said, read, and done) I wouldnt want to come here, to talk to a bunch of people, who all believe in a book, that I dont, and serve a God, that I dont feel exists, in the form, he is presented in that book.  Therefore, I must assume, that you are only here, for the sake of argument, or to try to shove YOUR beliefs down, all of their throats. You know, coming in here, that you will be outnumbered, by people, believing in the bible, in a religious thread.  So whats the point, of being here, unless YOUR trying to convert, the majority, or argue.  I personally, wouldnt do it.  I would start my own thread, for people who believed, the way "I" did, and be among people, that agreed, with my beliefs.  And of course, you are welcome here, and free to post, whatever you like, wherever you like. but doesnt it make more sense, not to post somewhere, where you know your gonna have nothing, but debate. Unless thats what your into  , or your hoping, to convert, all these God fearing people in here, to your way of thinking. Good luck with that.  God Bless
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 11/05/11 02:13 PM
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? |
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I am happy for anyone who finds peace in their version of god whatever that may be. I think it's a beautiful thing whenever anyone realizes there is something in the universe mightier than themselves. That's fine, but the problem comes in when one tries to preach their religion onto another a person and expects them to believe exactly like they do, or be gone with them. That's where you have problems. If you wanna go to church, read a book or whatever, fine that's your own personal business. I may tell you how I feel about said places and things, but what you believe is up to you. But when you start telling others they are lost or need a savior and such that only your religion has, and the only way to find your way back is through it, then you're going too far. It's not personal anymore at that point. So like I said, you wanna believe it, fine, but don't force it on others who may see it different. Now Kleisto, you know I LOVE YOU and you know, this is just my opinion. DONT take it personally, because it applies to all who feel like you do, about organized religion. I fail to understand, your being in this section, and this is why. No one is forcing you to read this thread, that is posted in a religious section, ESPECIALLY, if you feel, its content, is trying to sway, the way YOU want to believe, in God. If I felt, like you do,(and I very well, may end up there, when all is said, read, and done) I wouldnt want to come here, to talk to a bunch of people, who all believe in a book, that I dont, and serve a God, that I dont feel exists, in the form, he is presented in that book. Therefore, I must assume, that you are only here, for the sake of argument, or to try to shove YOUR beliefs down, all of their throats. You know, coming in here, that you will be outnumbered, by people, believing in the bible, in a religious thread. So whats the point, of being here, unless YOUR trying to convert, the majority, or argue. I personally, wouldnt do it. I would start my own thread, for people who believed, the way "I" did, and be among people, that agreed, with my beliefs. And of course, you are welcome here, and free to post, whatever you like, wherever you like. but doesnt it make more sense, not to post somewhere, where you know your gonna have nothing, but debate. Unless thats what your into , or your hoping, to convert, all these God fearing people in here, to your way of thinking. Good luck with that. God Bless Well, I'd kinda like to hope I could somehow reach some people here, though I know the more dyed in the wool Christians will not be able to understand what I am saying until they actually were ready if they ever did become ready to. But my purpose here really isn't for them as much as to stand up for those who can't do it themselves. Someone has to protect the weak from the lies told about God you know? Silence is consent, so if I say nothing, who is gonna be there to stand up against this? Make sense? I try to stay away from it sometimes though, this and political topics both as it can be spiritually and emotionally draining, but I do have some duty to help those who cannot do it themselves yet, before they get sucked into this system wholeheartedly like the others. They need to know there are other possibilities that exist, and that God is different from what they are being told. In fact, the main reason I posted in this thread yesterday at all was because of that. I had seen your post, and felt the need to give you an alternative viewpoint while you are still open to hear it (which I'm glad you still are BTW). People like you are why I speak out, because if I can get even one person to understand what I am saying, it makes it all worth it. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? But why would BLOOD be neccessary Cowboy? That's pretty morbid IMO, to need death in order to show it. If I loaned someone money, I would not loan them more in the future, but I certainly wouldn't need someone to die either just to appease myself. That's not what love does. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? But why would BLOOD be neccessary Cowboy? That's pretty morbid IMO, to need death in order to show it. If I loaned someone money, I would not loan them more in the future, but I certainly wouldn't need someone to die either just to appease myself. That's not what love does. For one, what else could you possibly sacrifice to God? It was the receiving of the blood sacrifice that satisfied God. It was the sacrificing of something important. Also gotta keep in mind the time period this was happening. You couldn't just go down to the local wallmart to get food, you had to grow it, harvest it ect. "Crops" are easy to grow, you can grow tons and tons of it, so what form of sacrifice would they be making if they could just sacrifice that to receive forgiveness? They wouldn't be giving up much in their display when they could just grow some more crops. But meat was more rare then that, took a lot of work to raise live stock. And was more important, because again in that day and age, physical strength was well needed. You do not get the protein you need for muscle building from plants, you get it from the blood of animals. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? But why would BLOOD be neccessary Cowboy? That's pretty morbid IMO, to need death in order to show it. If I loaned someone money, I would not loan them more in the future, but I certainly wouldn't need someone to die either just to appease myself. That's not what love does. For one, what else could you possibly sacrifice to God? It was the receiving of the blood sacrifice that satisfied God. Which proves that the God of the Bible is NOT of love. Love does NOT need death to be appeased. Period. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? But why would BLOOD be neccessary Cowboy? That's pretty morbid IMO, to need death in order to show it. If I loaned someone money, I would not loan them more in the future, but I certainly wouldn't need someone to die either just to appease myself. That's not what love does. For one, what else could you possibly sacrifice to God? It was the receiving of the blood sacrifice that satisfied God. Which proves that the God of the Bible is NOT of love. Love does NOT need death to be appeased. Period. It's not the "death" that appeased God. It was the giving up something very important in display of sincerity in your asking of forgiveness. And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with God's love in that exact sense. This wasn't done to earn God's love. God loves us no matter what. |
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Ok, ive read Genesis twice now. I really see now why, Jesus had to die, for all the sins, of the people. They sure were horrible! Roberta, simple question here, why would any being of love need the blood and death of an innocent person to be appeased for sins and to save everyone else who did nothing wrong? Does that really make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. It'd be like saying, you had four kids, the first one did something really really bad, and because of it the only way to make up for it is to kill the 2nd one who had nothing to do with it, so the other two can be saved even though they too had little to do with the actions of the 1st. Could you ever justify that in your own right mind? Would you ever make your own kids responsible for something they never did, or need death in order to look at them? It just does not work for someone who claims to be of love, because to act in this way is far from it. There's no excuse that can possibly make it right or justify the actions. It is written, "He so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, to die on the cross for our sins". Wouldnt he love, his own flesh and blood, HIS SON, more than the world? But im just starting with the bible, so i'll just have to see how that turns out. The only thing I can think of, is because he knew his son, was not going to stay dead, and that he would rise from death, and live again, and if sin were something that, could not be forgiven in the world, ever, this would be a terrible place, with no love. But im still a rookie Christian. The whole blood sacrifice thing, I still await to see, also, why that is so. You've got to understand. I am a BABY CHRISTIAN. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, WITH ALL MY HEART, AND DO NOT DOUBT HIS EXISTENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND WORSHIP HIM, AND PRAY TO HIM, AND LOVE HIM, AND ACCEPT HIM AS MY FATHER, AND WORK TO MAKE HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE, AND TO BE MORE LIKE HIM.I WILL NEVER DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. HE HAS SHOWN ME TOO MUCH, AND MADE ME FEEL TOO MUCH, FOR ME NOT TO BELIEVE IN HIM. AND THATS NOT EVER GONNA CHANGE!! This in itself, has made ME a better person. I am much more, forgiving, patient, and loving, since finding God. However, that being said, nobody can prove, that the bible, is 100%, what REALLY happened, back then. They also say, its been re-written many times! That leaves me room for speculation, of the accuracy, of its content. And YES, I DO understand, that as a Christian, I am required to have faith, and believe, that those were in fact, the words, and actions, of God. Which is why I say, im not sure, where I will stand, after I get all of the data,( finish reading the bible, and, research of Christianity). I may choose to believe in God, but not in the bible, which certainly, would not make me, an acceptable Christian, since Christianity is all based around the bible. For now, I am following the Christian religion, and reading the bible. And I am following it wholeheartedly!And it brings me joy, and makes me feel happy. And as I have questions, I will ask them. Questions like these, are EXACTLY, the reason, I started this thread. Because when things dont jive to me, I can ask more seasoned, and wiser, Christians, than myself, whats up? Just a few points in response to that. 1. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? Somehow I would think not. God is not gonna do something that even we wouldn't do, it wouldn't make much sense. If God is gonna be above us, he's gonna act BETTER than us, not WORSE. 2. I'm glad you found God and are at peace in that place of your life, but just remember one thing going forward. I think you already understand some of this, but it bears repeating. Our finding God, has to do with our faith, not where we find it. The Bible itself even says, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. You were looking and so God revealed itself. You could have looked anywhere, in any belief system or even outside of it, and found God. The place does not matter, it's that you look period. It is all about faith. God as an unlimited being, is not gonna be limited to one place or one book, it's much bigger than that. So keep this in mind, your relationship with God is not dependent on any religion, belief system or book, it's your faith that connects you. That's all you really need. 3. As you go through your journey with this, there's an easy way to test what things are true of God and what things are not, a couple ways actually. Number one, if no matter how many times you try and justify something of being of God you can't do it, more than likely it's because it simply can't be. It's like a math problem, if you try to make 2+2=5, regardless of how many times you do the math, you aren't gonna get the answer you want. This is much the same, if you can't justify something after 20 times, what are the chances it will work the 21st you know? The other test, is to simply ask yourself is the action of the God loving? If you can conclude it's not, then God never did it. Remember God is supposed to be a being of love, and if this God is doing things that fly in the face of what love is, then those things cannot be of God based on that. Just some food for thought, feel free to message me whenever you like, will do all I can to help you. On the sacrifice thing, consider this. If God is supposed to be all loving, all merciful and forgiving, why would any of this be needed to forgive and to give love? Could you ever fathom withholding love and forgiveness from your own kids or someone you cared about, even if they did something really bad? The sacrifice wasn't to get the love of God, it was to show sincerity in their apology and asking of forgiveness. Do you forgive everyone that has done you wrong and just said sorry? If you loaned someone $20 and they didn't pay you back, would you forgive them on just an "I' sorry". Then later on loan them more money if they asked? But why would BLOOD be neccessary Cowboy? That's pretty morbid IMO, to need death in order to show it. If I loaned someone money, I would not loan them more in the future, but I certainly wouldn't need someone to die either just to appease myself. That's not what love does. For one, what else could you possibly sacrifice to God? It was the receiving of the blood sacrifice that satisfied God. Which proves that the God of the Bible is NOT of love. Love does NOT need death to be appeased. Period. It's not the "death" that appeased God. It was the giving up something very important in display of sincerity in your asking of forgiveness. And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with God's love in that exact sense. This wasn't done to earn God's love. God loves us no matter what. Except God needed this sacrifice to stand to look at everyone else, lest they all be forever damned without it. Sorry you can't say God loves us no matter what and yet push this idea that God needed this to forgive us. The two statements completely contradict. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 11/05/11 06:14 PM
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Kleisto....There is LIFE in the BLOOD!!!
God gave us His ony begotten Son, to pay the price for our sins...so we wouldn't have to...that's God's Love and Mercy !! GOD HIMSELF (thru God the Son) gave His life (shed his blood) for our sins..the payment was made in full...by what Jesus did on that cross for us...so we would not have to bear the sins ourselves anymore...all we have to do is RECEIVE this Free Gift of Grace Being Offered to us now .......that God has already paid for , in Full !!! No human being could EVER pay the price for our sins anyway...only God could pay the price for our sins.....( if a mere human had died on that cross, and not God Himself, we would still be dead and lost in our sins....simply because a human being can't EVER pay the price for our sins..ONLY GOD HIMSELF COULD DO THAT!!! Kleisto....when you are ready to ,do a personal study on this subject on your own...that is always the best way to gain a deeper understanding of God's Word. ps...a JUST God can NEVER just sweep sin under the rug and just forgive it and let it go ( IF God had done that, God would not have been a Just God at all )......but since God IS also a JUST God ,justice had to be carried out..... simply because God will NEVER Go against HIS WORD or WHO HE IS....THAT is WHY payment had to be made for our sins.... so that is why GOD HIMSELF , OUT OF HIS GREAT LOVE AND MERCY FOR US, PAID THE PRICE HIMSELF FOR US...ON THAT CROSS AT CALVARY..SO WE COULD BE SET FREE.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 11/05/11 05:34 PM
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God gave us His ony begotten Son, to pay the price for our sins...so we wouldn't have to...that's God's Love and mercy !! God HIMSELF(thru God the Son) gave His life(shed his blood) for our sins..the payment was made in full...by what Jesus did on that cross for us..so we would not have to bear the sins ourselves anymore...all we have to do is RECEIVE this free gift of grace from God now!!! That does not make any logical sense!!!!!!!!! (I have more exclamation points that you do so I must be right.)  |
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Well put Morningsong.
@luv2rock - Love the fact that you are giving the bible a legitimate chance and not shooting it down before reading it. The bible is a book of interpretation. Close to 1/3 of the bible is prophecy - a history book written in advance of the history it records. It has been extremely accurate. |
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LOGICAL sense???
of course it won't make LOGICAL sense....cause GOD is SPIRIT, NOT LOGIC... that is WHY one must come to God in spirit and in truth... spirit to SPIRIT.... NOT logic to SPIRIT
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Kleisto....There is LIFE in the BLOOD!!! God gave us His ony begotten Son, to pay the price for our sins...so we wouldn't have to...that's God's Love and mercy !! Number one it is NOT love at all in the first place to make EVERYONE responsible for the sins of TWO PEOPLE. If you wouldn't make your kid responsible for what a sibling did, there is NO WAY God would do so with us, unless you wanna expect less of God than you do of yourself...... Number two even if the above was true, it is STILL not love to say that the ONLY way to save us all would be to kill another being. I mean come on really? That's the best a loving being can do? Give me a break!! Sorry but your God fails the love test miserably on this one, as well as in many other areas too. |
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LOGICAL sense??? of course it won't make LOGICAL sense....cause GOD is SPIRIT, NOT LOGIC... That doesn't get God off the hook if it's acting evil. If WE know something is wrong and won't do it, you can bet every last dollar God won't either. As I said before, if God is gonna be higher than us, he is going to act BETTER than us, not WORSE. |
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Well put Morningsong. @luv2rock - Love the fact that you are giving the bible a legitimate chance and not shooting it down before reading it. The bible is a book of interpretation. Close to 1/3 of the bible is prophecy - a history book written in advance of the history it records. It has been extremely accurate. Where's the proof the people existed then? Give me one definitive example of the things in the Bible actually being recorded as they occured in history. You're not gonna be able to do it, because it simply is not there. Second, let's talk about accuracy. If this book is so accurate why are their differing views on when Jesus died, and what words he said when he did? That's only the most important part of the whole story, upon which the entire religion is based, and you're gonna tell me these people can't get their story straight? |
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@Kleisto - Since you know soo much about the bible I won't need to quote anything. If you look at Matthew 20:28 and Matthew 26:28 their it will explain why he was born to die.
Read Daniel 8-11:5 This actually did happen. (the four winds being - Lysimachus, Cassander, Seleucus and Ptolemy) Daniel 11:6 also a remarkable prophecy that did happen. Daniel 11:7-11:21 (think its contained in all those verses) yet, another prophecy that was true. Their is far more but for the sake of proverbs 26:4 I'll stop there |
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LOGICAL sense??? of course it won't make LOGICAL sense....cause GOD is SPIRIT, NOT LOGIC... that is WHY one must come to God in spirit and in truth... spirit to SPIRIT.... NOT logic to SPIRIT So, in other words, in order to believe in your religion we must believe that God is illogical and irrational. That doesn't work for me MorningSong. An irrational God would be an untrustworthy God, IMHO. How could I trust an irrational God? |
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