Simple. If it wasn't, you'd have to question your entire reality and everything you've been told. So rather than do that, you cling to what you know no matter what as that is much easier.

You're funny bro. You act as if I was raised a church boy, a guy that was raised in a "religiously" strict family, bible study on Sunday's ect. How little you know. I know what I know from searching for it, researching things for hours upon hours, days upon days till I find the answer to my questions. Practicing what I learned, and finding the results to be ultimately great. So with finding they have positive true outcomes, they positively must be true.

Except they're not, you just believe them to be, and hold close to them cause it's all you know. Anything else you reject. You may not even realize you're doing it but you do it.

If you're driving down the road and come to an intersection. Why would you turn left, when you know for a fact the way you need to go is right? Why would you intentionally try a different route when you already know the correct route? Why would you get yourself lost for purely "experiencing" that other route?

Who's ego is showing now?

You say that God's word is absolutely clear, but the Jews and Muslims don't agree with your interpretations.

Therefore all you are doing is egotistically arguing that your interpretations are correct, and that theirs are wrong.

So you'd be guilty of precisely the egotism to which you just referred.

Never said I wasn't, never said I know it all either, never said my interpretation is absolutely correct neither. Why ALWAYS trying to make the one you're discussing with look bad? What's the purpose of doing as such? My belief is that the Holy Bible is the word of God. Anything that follows is open for discussion as again, I'm not perfect, I don't know precisely how it is ment. That is why we are told to congregate with one another, to get the views of other's, to see how they came to their conclusion. To discuss and share our view on the subject and eventually come to a mutual agreement on what it's truly saying. Which is where ego comes into play. Alot to most people refuse to give up their interpretations even when the other person's is perfectly clear and fits so much better.

I'm just going by what you say Cowboy. If you feel that makes you look bad that's your assessment.

You just said, "God's word is absolutely clear".

Well, if you believe that, then you must also believe that you have and absolutely clear and perfect interpretation of the Bible which you believe to be "God's Word".

After all, how could you possibly take the stance that "God's word is absolutely clear" if you don't personally feel that you have a prefect understanding of the scriptures?

After all, if any part of it was "unclear" to you, then you could hardly take the stance that "God's word is absolutely clear".

The very act of taking that stance is really no differently from saying, "I have a perfect understanding of the Bible which I believe to be the infallible word of God".

And clearly your "understanding" of those scriptures is that Jesus was the only begotten son of God sent as a ransom for the salvation of mankind (just as the Bible proclaims)

You claim to have a "absolutely clear understanding of this".

You have to take that stance because you just said, "God's word is absolutely clear".

Yet now you are saying:



Well how could it not be correct if you are taking the stance that "God's word is absolutely clear".

How could you have an incorrect interpretation of something that you claim is absolutely clear?

More importantly, if you have such a clear understanding of the scriptures then why do your explanations of those scriptures no make sense to other people.

You have claimed that sacrifices were necessary because humans have to prove their sincerity to God.

Yet, that cannot possible be the correct interpretations of sacrifices. The reason for that should be obvious. If Jesus was then the sacrificial lamb of God sent to be the sacrificial lamb for our sins, then all that would do is relieve us from having to prove our sincerity.

So now we no longer need to make sacrifices to prove anything to God. Jesus made the sacrifice for us.

That makes no sense.

I personally think that what you are calling "absolutely clear" is really nothing more than an attempt to pretend that you have explanations for all of the contradictions in these stories.

But in truth, you don't.

So I conclude that your very own assessment must be correct. There must be an ego involved that needs to believe that it has the correct interpretations of scriptures, when in fact, it clearly doesn't.

Fixed it!!

http://youtu.be/6cfPMKv2fBM


Loved the video!!! Everyone needs to see it !!!

You're twisting words and still understanding Abra. I also said this.

Cowboy wrote:




Cowboy, you don't have to just "hope" you are saved ,

Precious...you can

ABSOLUTLEY KNOW you are Saved!!!

Did you know that?


God lets us KNOW that we KNOW that we KNOW , that we are Saved !!!

God gives us ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE that we are saved!!!

GOD DOES NOT LEAVE US STILL WONDERING IF WE ARE REALLY SAVED,

AFTER WE ARE ALREADY SAVED !!!

God's Holy Spirit BEARS WITNESS with our spirit ,letting us

KNOW that we are SAVED(born again)!!!!



But just in case there is any doubt, let's remove that doubt

right now....so you will never have to doubt or wonder EVER

again about your salvation,

Precious:


Amen??

Amen!!!



http://www.salvationprayer.info/prayer.html


Afterwards, Pray and Ask God to also FILL YOU UP with His Holy

Spirit.....and

God Surely Will!!!

Cowboy,You are Hungry and Thirsty for More of God.... God Sees and

Knows this ...and that is what God Longs to See in Us All !!!

But you only THINK you know. Pride comes before the fall Cowboy.

You're not being consistent.

You just stated, "God's word is absolutely clear."

But now you are suggesting that we need to congregate with one another to see how others came to their conclusion. Why would that be required if God's word is absolutely clear?

Also, if God's word (the bible in this context) is absolutely clear as you say, then why are there so many disagreeing sects and factions in the Abrahamic religion?

Clearly everyone does not come to the same conclusions, and therefore it cannot even remotely be claimed that these scriptures are "absolutely clear".

~~~~~

If you are interested in just discussing these ancient scriptures then you most certainly should be interested in my views on these scriptures because I have solved all problems and have explained away all contradictions.

The explanation is really quite simple.

1. There never was any God that required blood sacrifices to pay for sins. Those ideas were nothing more than man-made superstitious myths. The old testament is just a bunch of superstitious fables that have no more merit than the Greek fables of Zeus.

2. Jesus was a mortal man who rejected the immoral teachings of the Old Testament and replaced them with the higher moral values of the moral wisdom taught by Buddhism.

3. The New Testament is nothing more than superstitious rumors made up about Jesus in an attempt to proclaim that he was some sort of ultimate sacrificial lamb who give his life to pay for our sins.

~~~~~

This solves all problems with this religion.

~~~~~

You're suggestions do not solve anything. Nor can they even be correct within the context of this religion overall.

You have claimed that blood sacrifices were made to God, not to appease the God but rather to prove sincerity to God.

That idea fails in two major ways:

First, it fails because there would be absolutely no need to 'prove' or physically demonstrate through actions, a person's sincerity to a supposedly omniscient God who knows what's in the hearts and minds of men. Such a God would automatically know whether a person is sincere or not and would have absolutely no need to have this person demonstrate their sincerity by sacrificing a living animal to God.

So you're suspicion that these sacrifices were necessary for God to know that a person is truly sincere cannot be true. What appears to be "Crystal Clear" to you, appears to be totally incorrect to me.

It cannot be that an omniscient God needs people to prove their sincerity to him. That makes no sense.

Secondly, in terms of Christianity and the idea of Jesus being the ultimate sacrificial lamb of God to "pay" for the sins of man as a "ransom" certainly could not fit into your idea.

You idea that sacrifices were originally designed by God to be a way that humans could prove their sincerity to God cannot possibly fit in with this same God sending his son to be the ultimate sacrifice for all humans.

Based on your ideas, all this would amount to is Jesus sacrificing himself to "prove" the sincerity of all men! It would also result in relieving men from having to prove their sincerity to God.

That cannot be the explanation. It simply doesn't work. It's makes no sense for Jesus to be the ultimate sacrifice to prove the sincerity of men.

~~~~~

So let's go back to your words, "God's word is absolutely clear."

Well, it certainly can't be clear to you because your claim to have interpreted the meanings of these things leads to contradictions that simply do not work.

~~~~~

I have just given a very powerful explanation of why your interpretations of these scriptures cannot be correct.

And that's what you claim you want. You claim to want discussion on why other people come to the conclusions that they come to.

Well, I'm giving you my reasons for coming to my conclusions.

Your explanation concerning blood sacrifices in this religion simply cannot be made to work. It fails, IMHO. It simply cannot be correct. I've shown clearly how it leads to gross contradictions and absurdities.

~~~~~~

Therefore, there must be another "explanation".

Personally I have never heard a rational sound explanation for these blood sacrifices. I have never been satisfied by anyone's interpretations of these things. And I've been considering these things for my entire adult life.

~~~~~~

However, I do have a workable explanation. The explanation is really quite simple.

1. There never were any gods that required blood sacrifices to atone sins.

2. Jesus was not the son of any God and he wasn't a "sacrificial lamb". He was simply a mortal man who taught against the immoral behavior that had been established by the Torah, and he was crucified for blaspheme because his views against the Torah, and against the current religious establishment (i.e. for calling the Pharisees hypocrites)

3. The New Testament is just superstitious rumors about the man Jesus that try to make him into a 'demigod'. And YES, a man who is born from a mortal human woman who was impregnated by a God is indeed a 'demigod'. That too, was a popular superstition back in those days that came right out of Greek Mythology.

~~~~~~

My explanation WORKS.

You personally don't like it because my explanation dismisses the divinity of Jesus, the God of the Old Testament, and everything you so dearly cling to as "MUST KEEPS"

So you're stuck with having to continue to try to make sense of a religion that cannot be made sense of.

I've long since given up on that futile pursuit and have simply recognize that the religion is simply not true. It's just superstitious rumors.

~~~~~~

Does this mean that we have to give up on the idea of a spiritual existence altogether and become secular atheists?

No, not at all. Just because one little religious myth is false does not mean that there can be no spiritual existence to reality.

After all, you yourself must also accept that a whole bunch of religious beliefs are false. Does that make the idea of spiritual existence impossible? No, you simply choose ONE of those religions and cling to that.

Therein lies the difference between you and me.

I don't need religion to believe in a spiritual existence to reality. I don't need for Greek Mythology to be true, and neither do I need for Hebrew Mythology to be true.

I don't need for any "religion" to be true.

I don't need a book written by men who claim to be speaking for God in order to believe in a "God". I can call men on their superstitions and religious propaganda without connecting that with any "God".

~~~~~~~~

When discussing these matters with YOU, the bottom line for me is that you are not consistent.

You make claims like, ""God's word is absolutely clear."

Yet your explanations of concepts concerning these stories does not add up. Your explanations cannot be made to work. Therefore you cannot possibly have a "clear" understanding of these ancient fables.

So where do you get off proclaiming that "God's word is absolutely clear" when you yourself cannot even offer explanations that can actually be made to work?

I personally dont see,

why we all, just cant,

believe the way we want, and what we want,

and not worry, or care, what anybody else is doing.

Unless your trying to convert people.

And good luck with that.

God Bless

You are absolutely right.

Cowboy stop trying to convert people.

Honestly, cowboy is in the right forum and was just answering questions and posting how he feels on the topic. It is abra who is trying to do the convincing. I'm happy that you find what satisfies you but why come in to a religious thread trying to pick everything apart.

Abra and Cowboy are simply the same person on different sides of the coin. I have no idea why they do what they do in these forums.

You are new so you don't know how long Cowboy has been here trying to convert people and argue (mainly with Abra) for weeks and months on end.

This is precisely what non-Christians have been telling Christians throughout all of history.

It's just an unfortunate fact of history that Christianity is a highly proselytizing and evangelizing religion.

It is extremely unfortunate. But it's the way things are.

It's simply a property of the Christian religion to evangelize.

Unfortunately it can sometimes get so extreme to the point where it basically becomes harassment of non-Christians. They simply won't take no for an answer. They continually beat people over the head with it relentlessly. And then when the people challenge it they scream "foul".



As long as there are Christians who continue to accuse non-Christians of "not believing in God's word", as if there is something wrong with that, there will always be animosity associated with the religion.

You're welcomed, glad you liked it!

You are absolutely correct Ruth. Cowboy and I are on extreme opposite poles when it comes to religion. And that's precisely why we feed off each others posts.

He's trying to make a case that the Bible is God's Word, it's perfectly clear, and no one has any excuse for not believing it.

I'm taking the stance that it's far more likely to be nothing more than man-made superstitions, it's not clear about anything, and there are many sound and valid reasons for not believing it.

We are about as opposite as can be on this issue.

I have no desire to argue with Cowboy about this on a personal one-to-one basis. I'm not trying to convince him of anything on a personal level.

It only makes sense to discuss this in a public forum.

Why?

Well, so other people can see these opposing views and the rationale that lies behind them.

That's why we do "public debates" or "public discussions" on topics like this.

It just to serve as "food for thought" for whoever finds it interesting. I feel that I have some fairly unique, fresh and important perspectives to offer this topic. Although they may not seem very "fresh" to people who have already been reading my posts for years.

People who don't find it interesting should just scroll past it. Why bother to read something that they aren't interested in?