already has been answered also ......

obviously, all 3 men do NOT have the INDWELLING of the Holy

Spirit...if they HAD, then all 3 would have been IN

AGREEMENT about the Word of God.


ALL BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS are IN AGREEMENT,when it comes to

the Word of God...... SIMPLY

BECAUSE ALL BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS have the ONE SAME

HOLY SPIRIT AS OUR TEACHER.

Nite now.

If you wanna convince me, you'll have to do better, that isn't good enough.

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you.
You either believe or you don't.

Oh don't hand me that garbage. They were the authors of the damn thing! They were THERE! Yet they all somehow got different accounts???

Perfect book my ***.

Get serious MorningSong.

The BASIC fundamental "truths" that you are referring to are COMMON to all decent religions. There are no BASIC moral teachings in the bible that the ancient Hebrews could claim a unique copyright on.

Those kind of obvious moral truths were around LONG before the Bible was ever written. And long before Jesus was ever born.

In fact, when you take Jesus out of the picture, the actual Torah had actually taught people some pretty BAD moral behavior. The Torah had people judging each other to be sinners and stoning people to death in the name of God.

Jesus himself rejected that kind of behavior and offered up some far BETTER moral values which had already been adopted by the Buddhists and Taoists long before the time of Jesus.

So the BASIC fundamental moral truths are simply HUMAN NATURE. They most certainly didn't originate with the ancient Hebrews or the Bible.

~~~~~~~

So trying to pass the Bible off as somehow being a unique source of good moral behavior, or even the "origin" of such morals is simply a false idea.

The moral values taught in the Bible are neither unique or original.

And like I pointed out, even the story of Jesus has Jesus renouncing the immoral teachings of the Torah and introducing far more highly moral behavior.

So any attempt to appeal to the bible as somehow being the 'source' of basic morals is truly false. The original moral values taught in the Torah weren't even all that great.

People who adhere to those moral values today are typically called the Taliban.

~~~~

Also, if an acceptance of the BASIC moral values that every decent human would agree upon constitutes being in harmony with the desires of "God" then clearly there would be no need for Jesus, a crucifixion, or anything along those lines.

There are plenty of highly moral atheists who don't even bother with religion at all.

So if the bottom line is about morality, then we don't even need religion at all. All we need is basic human common sense, that isn't contaminated by selfishness, greed, or a desire to rule over others.

You don't need the Bible or Jesus for any of that.

Don't be too naive about that.

There are entire Christian website entirely devoted to evangelizing and spreading Christianity throughout the world. And they stress the need to 'target" non-believers.

After all, what good would it do to evangelize to someone who is already sold on the religion?

So YES, there are many Christian organizations whose sole purpose is to CONVERT non-believers into buying into the Christian religion.

There are PLENTY of people trying to convince others that Christ is the "only way" to salvation.

You're in total denial of reality if you aren't aware of that fact.

Kleisto..I thought you were referring to 3

different interpretations given by 3 different people

READING the bible....

NOW, I see that you are referring to the different written

accounts IN the bible.

STILL.....The different acounts DO NOT DISAGREE...they just

each add

a bit more DETAIL ..that is all.

There are NO contradictions whatsoever, in the bible...NADA....NONE.....once man truly understands it.

Period !!

Clearly you didn't understand those 2 complex lines. Let me clarify.
In relation to the thread no one is trying to convince you to believe in something you clearly do not.

I'm sure you'll find some way to pick that apart even though it is a very simple post.

Sorry I didn't make that clear, but you're STILL wrong! They ALL disagree, each has Jesus dying at a different time or saying a different thing at the time of death. So they DO contradict!

I already explained the best I can.....and will stop here now.

I cannot make the Word

clear to you.

Only God can...and He WILL..if You ask Him to.

I thought someone might appreciate this video,it was filmed in Saudi Arabia and shows some landmarks from the bible. The best part is at about 8 minutes into it when they find the split rock in the desert. jump ahead to 7 minutes if you're in a hurry. It is a little blurry,sorry.

http://youtu.be/6cfPMKv2fBM


Secret footage smuggled out

Great and very interesting video! Thank you for sharing :)

Well it's been my experience that many Christians outright lie about this. They are indeed trying to convince others even when they in denial of this themselves.

Moreover, re-read your own post.

You said,


You personally may not be trying to convince others. But that's not what you said. You said that you don't think "anyone" is trying to convince you.

And that is what I'm saying is extremely naive.

You can ONLY speak for yourself. To think that no one is trying to convince anyone of Christianity is silly. Like I've already said, there are entire Christian organizations that are dedicated to proselytizing and evangelizing the religion throughout the entire globe.

Christianity is historically a highly proselytizing and evangelizing religion. The Crusades were the epitome of that, burning down pagan temples and threatening people at sword-point that if they didn't confess Jesus as Lord they would suffer grave consequences.

It's historically a quite hostile religion actually.

And let's not even get into the horrible things they did to women because of their belief in a demonic "Satan". Burning midwives at the stake as "Witches" many of whom were actually Christians themselves!

The religion doesn't have a very proud history.

When it wasn't burning witches on stakes or threatening people to convert or be chastised it was socially crucifying scientists for discovering truths about the natural world that conflict with religious superstitions.

Many Christian fundamentalists even today use the religion to argue against evolution, the age of the earth, etc.

There are many people who have been adversely affected by this religion in this way.

And let's not even get into the Christian hostility toward same gender relationships.

Try telling people who are being adversely affected by this religion that no one is trying to convince anyone of anything.

Good luck with that.

The Jews numbered the twelve hours of day from sunrise. They numbered the twelve hours of night from sunset. The Romans counted from midnight and again from noon, as is commonly done today. The Synoptic gospel accounts (Matthew, Mark, Luke) use the Jewish method. John’s gospel account records the hours using the Roman method.
John 19:14 states, “And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour…” This was approximately three hours prior to Christ’s crucifixion, and referred to the general time of sunrise, based on the Roman method.
By today’s standards of time (based on the Roman system), Christ was crucified at about nine o’ clock in the morning. The Jews considered it to be three hours after sunrise (hence, the “third hour” [Mark 15:25]). Darkness spread over the land at about noon (Roman time: twelve hours past midnight; Jewish time: six hours past sunrise [Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44]), lasting until three o’ clock in the afternoon, Roman time (nine hours past sunrise, Jewish time).
We read in Isaiah 28:9-13 that the Bible is written in such a way that every minute detail of any given subject is not presented in any one place. It is like a jigsaw puzzle, each piece fitting together in a certain way in order to fully grasp the big picture.
Once the various pieces from the gospel accounts are put together, it can plainly be seen that they do not contradict each other. Each account complements and supports the others, once the way they were written is understood.

We shouldn't have to ask a God to make something clear to us if it's God's will that we understand it. God should have been smart enough to make it clear in the first place.

Face it. The religion is totally unclear even to extremely zealous believers who wish upon a star that it could be made clear.

The mere fact that Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and the myriad confused sects of the protesting Protestants can't even agree on much of anything at all is PROOF POSITIVE that nobody understands these ancient contradicting and convoluted fables.

So the PROOF is in the pudding.

Even religious fanatics can't agree with each other.

So clearly asking God doesn't work. You can be absolutely CERTAIN that the religious clergy of ALL the Abrahamic religions have prayed quite diligently and sincerely for answers.

And clearly NONE of them got any answers because they still continue to disagree and hold totally different beliefs!

So we have absolute proof positive that what you say here cannot possibly be TRUE.

That's what they ALL SAY. Just trust in OUR GOD and he will give you the answers you seek.

It's a lie. Clearly. There can be no question about it. It is clearly a false HOPE that cannot possibly be true.

If there were any truth it it, then all the religious clergy of all the Abrahamic religions would be in complete agreement on religious values and views. But clearly they aren't.

Therefore we must rationally conclude that these religions can't be anything more than man-made superstitious dogma that has absolutely nothing to do with any supreme being.

The PROOF is in the pudding, as they say.

God's word is absolutely clear, it is man's ego in oneself that allows for disagreeing. The word is crystal clear, just man does not wish to ever be wrong because of pride in oneself and oneself's interpretation of the scriptures.

And you don't think you don't wish to be wrong too? You wanna talk pride, people like you have it in spades!

Everything you said doesn't apply to this thread. Hopefully for your sake you didn't waste much time typing that. I am not nor would I ever try to convince someone to believe the same thing I do but merely answer a question they might have.

Why would I WANT it to be true? I know I'm not a perfect person and may perish in the fire's of hell for all I know. I have committed many different sins I am now ashamed of, but at the time I did them anyways. Yes, I have hope that I will be saved, but there is absolutely no way to absolutely know that for sure. Why would I WANT to be in that form of position? I merely express my religious beliefs, and what I feel to be the truth. Nothing more, nothing less. Abra is right, there are many "better" spiritual views then Christianity. Christianity involves sacrifice of doing something that may look fun, nice, amazing to do, ect. The other spiritual views are painted to do that. People want things with a gold border, things that shine, believe in something that may bring them more of whatever it is they are looking for, money, fun, but not limited to these things.

Exactly, merely answer a question with the spiritual knowledge YOU possess and see as true. No one's trying to convince another, we are mostly all here just for the sharing, expressing, and discussing of our different beliefs. Not trying to convert, convince another, or change their views.