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| Topic: We are not a Lynch Mob | |
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hmmm.. while i didn't like the dancing in the streets, i think he provided his own trial by his actions and the tapes he would put out on youtube, calling for jihad on america. when your an enemy of the government, calling for the mass murder of our citizens and having the ability and want to do so, i think the trial part is a mute concept. he dug his own grave, we just lowered the coffin.... Except that one small thing. Until there is a trial, it is all just opinion. 'Innocent until proven guilty' was not just a handy catchphrase. It meant something. We lived by it. Until now. you didn't watch any of his tapes? and another thing, how many times has a cop said come with me, or if someone shoots at a cop, does the cop kill him? when your wanted by the police, and you try to fight, you get shot... that is any country, not just the US... he had a choice, to go with the seals or die... he choose death Whether I watched them or not (of course I did) it is incidental to OUR stated laws, and should play no part. Of course he was enough to make the blood boil, it is why we protect ourselves with laws and..righteousness. But the lynch-mob mentality does not service us in the end because we did not follow our own laws. What a complete shame he was taken out before a trial. The right way. |
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hmmm.. while i didn't like the dancing in the streets, i think he provided his own trial by his actions and the tapes he would put out on youtube, calling for jihad on america. when your an enemy of the government, calling for the mass murder of our citizens and having the ability and want to do so, i think the trial part is a mute concept. he dug his own grave, we just lowered the coffin.... Except that one small thing. Until there is a trial, it is all just opinion. 'Innocent until proven guilty' was not just a handy catchphrase. It meant something. We lived by it. Until now. you didn't watch any of his tapes? and another thing, how many times has a cop said come with me, or if someone shoots at a cop, does the cop kill him? when your wanted by the police, and you try to fight, you get shot... that is any country, not just the US... he had a choice, to go with the seals or die... he choose death Whether I watched them or not (of course I did) it is incidental to OUR stated laws, and should play no part. Of course he was enough to make the blood boil, it is why we protect ourselves with laws and..righteousness. But the lynch-mob mentality does not service us in the end because we did not follow our own laws. What a complete shame he was taken out before a trial. The right way. In a war, With the enemy clearly in your sights, There is no trial before the execution commences. It is the meaning of war. |
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hmmm.. while i didn't like the dancing in the streets, i think he provided his own trial by his actions and the tapes he would put out on youtube, calling for jihad on america. when your an enemy of the government, calling for the mass murder of our citizens and having the ability and want to do so, i think the trial part is a mute concept. he dug his own grave, we just lowered the coffin.... Except that one small thing. Until there is a trial, it is all just opinion. 'Innocent until proven guilty' was not just a handy catchphrase. It meant something. We lived by it. Until now. you didn't watch any of his tapes? and another thing, how many times has a cop said come with me, or if someone shoots at a cop, does the cop kill him? when your wanted by the police, and you try to fight, you get shot... that is any country, not just the US... he had a choice, to go with the seals or die... he choose death Whether I watched them or not (of course I did) it is incidental to OUR stated laws, and should play no part. Of course he was enough to make the blood boil, it is why we protect ourselves with laws and..righteousness. But the lynch-mob mentality does not service us in the end because we did not follow our own laws. What a complete shame he was taken out before a trial. The right way. In a war, With the enemy clearly in your sights, There is no trial before the execution commences. It is the meaning of war. Hello! McFLY! hahahha |
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hmmm.. while i didn't like the dancing in the streets, i think he provided his own trial by his actions and the tapes he would put out on youtube, calling for jihad on america. when your an enemy of the government, calling for the mass murder of our citizens and having the ability and want to do so, i think the trial part is a mute concept. he dug his own grave, we just lowered the coffin.... Except that one small thing. Until there is a trial, it is all just opinion. 'Innocent until proven guilty' was not just a handy catchphrase. It meant something. We lived by it. Until now. you didn't watch any of his tapes? and another thing, how many times has a cop said come with me, or if someone shoots at a cop, does the cop kill him? when your wanted by the police, and you try to fight, you get shot... that is any country, not just the US... he had a choice, to go with the seals or die... he choose death Whether I watched them or not (of course I did) it is incidental to OUR stated laws, and should play no part. Of course he was enough to make the blood boil, it is why we protect ourselves with laws and..righteousness. But the lynch-mob mentality does not service us in the end because we did not follow our own laws. What a complete shame he was taken out before a trial. The right way. It's a shame that soldiers risked their lives to carry out this mission? Should they have risked their lives even more to attempt to take him alive? What would you think if some of them had died in that case? |
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Be careful America. The same dance you do now in the streets to celebrate a death, can be the same streets you march down to mourn a death. How different are we than those we condemn? Dancing for Death? Shame I agree. When will we ever stop trying to appease the world by bringing down tyrants? And...when will we ever stop "finding" tyrants to kill?? It's a very sad world that we live in; with people from all walks of life being suppressed but...isn't that what our United Nations are supposed to decide...TOGETHER, if they need to be brought to justice? We did the same Dance of Death when Sadham was killed... And why is it that our Government is trying SO hard to make believers out of us that he's dead? DNA?? WTF?? Like they/we know what his blood type is to know it's actually him. This is a world gone haywire. Where is my ticket home. I'm tired. |
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There is an article at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/02/972166/-We-can-be-better-than-this that sums it up for me, although I would not be quite so diplomatic about it.
In part: ========== Looking around at all the headlines, the most popular seems to be 'Justice at last,' or some variant. I find it impossible not to replace the word Justice, with Vengeance. Justice is a moral ideal: a deliberate, and rational process. Vengeance is simple, emotional, and primitive. There’s nothing noble or good about it. Whether or not Bin Laden's assassination was Just is irrelevant, because the celebration in our streets and bars tonight was not that of some sense of justice long overdue, but the bawdy clamor for vengeance of a bloodthirsty mob. Our roman ancestors would be proud. Certainly the world is a marginally safer place now than it was yesterday, not because of his death, but the removal of his influence. Which is something to celebrate indeed. I suppose what I'm bothered by is the tone of it all. At the end of the day we're still celebrating the murder of a human being. We should be better than that. We owe it to the people who lost their lives at the hands of Al Qaeda. We owe it to our soldiers. We owe it to the civilians who were caught in the crossfire. We owe it to ourselves. If we act this way, we become no better than the criminals we condemn. That I think is the greatest tragedy in this. Not that we're debasing ourselves, or even that we’ve failed to truly learn anything from the last decade of war, but that any good that may have come from the death of Osama Bin Laden will ultimately be outweighed by the fervor we incite with our response. ========== |
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I've been trying to find "my" voice regarding this..but the (quote) of a mastermind of peace summed it up for me... I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Martin Luther King, Jr. 
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Be careful America. The same dance you do now in the streets to celebrate a death, can be the same streets you march down to mourn a death. How different are we than those we condemn? Dancing for Death? Shame I agree. When will we ever stop trying to appease the world by bringing down tyrants? And...when will we ever stop "finding" tyrants to kill?? It's a very sad world that we live in; with people from all walks of life being suppressed but...isn't that what our United Nations are supposed to decide...TOGETHER, if they need to be brought to justice? We did the same Dance of Death when Sadham was killed... And why is it that our Government is trying SO hard to make believers out of us that he's dead? DNA?? WTF?? Like they/we know what his blood type is to know it's actually him. This is a world gone haywire. Where is my ticket home. I'm tired. spock said it best in star trek - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"... tyrants aren't always confined to their own country, and when the world is threatened, either financially or by nukes, sometimes something needs to be done, whether we all agree or not... and i agree with you about the government trying so hard to show us he's dead, something seems wrong about that... they even filmed obama and hillary watching the event go down, without showing any of the action they were "watching"... |
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I've been trying to find "my" voice regarding this..but the (quote) of a mastermind of peace summed it up for me... I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Martin Luther King, Jr. Even I have had to struggle with my feelings on this. Yes to hear that Bin Laden was taken down brought a sign of relief. But to rejoice over the death of any human would be hard for me to do. We must all remember Bin Laden did not carry through with the act of 9/11 alone. There are still many that think the way this man did and to watch us celebrate his death makes me wonder are we any better then they are? When 9/11 happen and we sat back and watched them celebrate it only fueled the fire within. I'm not saying that we should not be relieved that he is gone just that we must remember there are still many out there that will carry on for him. We should be more aware now then ever for I do not feel it will end with Bin Laden. I'm sure he had more planned against us in the case of his death. Therefore we should be more cautious now then ever of what is happening around us...  Regardless I feel that this was much needed and too bad it did not happen earlier......But........hate only fuels hate ....and if anyone thinks this will end the War they are going to have a rude awakening........... 
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I actually felt "sorry" for Bin Laden when I read the news of his death...because I believe that he was,indeed, an EVIL and MENTALLY disturbed person to commit such atrocities!
I live in NY, and was devastated, saddened and very angry about the 911 attacks..those emotions didn't bring anybody back from the dead! Killing Bin Laden has the same effect...his death will not bring back anybody either!!! So what's there to REJOICE in????  |
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Be careful America. The same dance you do now in the streets to celebrate a death, can be the same streets you march down to mourn a death. How different are we than those we condemn? Dancing for Death? Shame I agree. When will we ever stop trying to appease the world by bringing down tyrants? And...when will we ever stop "finding" tyrants to kill?? It's a very sad world that we live in; with people from all walks of life being suppressed but...isn't that what our United Nations are supposed to decide...TOGETHER, if they need to be brought to justice? We did the same Dance of Death when Sadham was killed... And why is it that our Government is trying SO hard to make believers out of us that he's dead? DNA?? WTF?? Like they/we know what his blood type is to know it's actually him. This is a world gone haywire. Where is my ticket home. I'm tired. I dont think its the government that issues news publications. They have made an announcement of a fairly historical event, as would be expected. The DNA could have been obtained many ways, considering we once were in business with Saddam. As I understand, they have pretty sophisticated recognition equipment in our military so identifying him would be hard as long as he wasnt burned or blown up. I agree we dont need to be police to the world, but in this case, we did need to try to bring the man to justice just like we would any american serial killer who had cost precious lives. |
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Be careful America. The same dance you do now in the streets to celebrate a death, can be the same streets you march down to mourn a death. How different are we than those we condemn? Dancing for Death? Shame I agree. When will we ever stop trying to appease the world by bringing down tyrants? And...when will we ever stop "finding" tyrants to kill?? It's a very sad world that we live in; with people from all walks of life being suppressed but...isn't that what our United Nations are supposed to decide...TOGETHER, if they need to be brought to justice? We did the same Dance of Death when Sadham was killed... And why is it that our Government is trying SO hard to make believers out of us that he's dead? DNA?? WTF?? Like they/we know what his blood type is to know it's actually him. This is a world gone haywire. Where is my ticket home. I'm tired. spock said it best in star trek - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"... tyrants aren't always confined to their own country, and when the world is threatened, either financially or by nukes, sometimes something needs to be done, whether we all agree or not... and i agree with you about the government trying so hard to show us he's dead, something seems wrong about that... they even filmed obama and hillary watching the event go down, without showing any of the action they were "watching"... does the government show those images, or do MEDIA OUTLETS? |
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I've been trying to find "my" voice regarding this..but the (quote) of a mastermind of peace summed it up for me... I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Martin Luther King, Jr. A wise man, yes. I believe, sometimes silence speaks volumes. I also understand, though, that people are people, some with views other than my own. Like Joel, here, i also am torn on the issue. I certainly do not condemn those, who have expressed their sentiments in a triumphant or joyous (for lack of a better word at the moment) manner. The bottom line here, is what has happened, has happened. Emotions run high in a situation like this, and folks handle those emotions in different ways. I can see both sides, yes, the man was evil. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 05/03/11 11:54 AM
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There is an article at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/02/972166/-We-can-be-better-than-this that sums it up for me, although I would not be quite so diplomatic about it. In part: ========== Looking around at all the headlines, the most popular seems to be 'Justice at last,' or some variant. I find it impossible not to replace the word Justice, with Vengeance. Justice is a moral ideal: a deliberate, and rational process. Vengeance is simple, emotional, and primitive. There’s nothing noble or good about it. Whether or not Bin Laden's assassination was Just is irrelevant, because the celebration in our streets and bars tonight was not that of some sense of justice long overdue, but the bawdy clamor for vengeance of a bloodthirsty mob. Our roman ancestors would be proud. Certainly the world is a marginally safer place now than it was yesterday, not because of his death, but the removal of his influence. Which is something to celebrate indeed. I suppose what I'm bothered by is the tone of it all. At the end of the day we're still celebrating the murder of a human being. We should be better than that. We owe it to the people who lost their lives at the hands of Al Qaeda. We owe it to our soldiers. We owe it to the civilians who were caught in the crossfire. We owe it to ourselves. If we act this way, we become no better than the criminals we condemn. That I think is the greatest tragedy in this. Not that we're debasing ourselves, or even that we’ve failed to truly learn anything from the last decade of war, but that any good that may have come from the death of Osama Bin Laden will ultimately be outweighed by the fervor we incite with our response. ========== we are taught from childhood to celebrate the downfall of certain 'evil' remember,,,ding dong the witch is dead? yes, I do get the whole AVATAR, we should never celebrate death concept but should we celebrate justice? should a family who has lost their loved one to someone like jeffrey dahmer, who later consumed them, feel (almost joyful) relief if that person is sentenced to jail or even the death penalty? although I am anti violent, I think the EXCEPTIONAL thing to do is only rejoice at death as a passage to someplace better,, but the HUMAN thing to do is to feel as if blood was shed for blood,,,,,,the very HUMAN tendency that keeps wars going and is not at all exclusive to any country or people but( I believe) present abundantly on every continent |
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I've been trying to find "my" voice regarding this..but the (quote) of a mastermind of peace summed it up for me... I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Martin Luther King, Jr. Even I have had to struggle with my feelings on this. Yes to hear that Bin Laden was taken down brought a sign of relief. But to rejoice over the death of any human would be hard for me to do. We must all remember Bin Laden did not carry through with the act of 9/11 alone. There are still many that think the way this man did and to watch us celebrate his death makes me wonder are we any better then they are? When 9/11 happen and we sat back and watched them celebrate it only fueled the fire within. I'm not saying that we should not be relieved that he is gone just that we must remember there are still many out there that will carry on for him. We should be more aware now then ever for I do not feel it will end with Bin Laden. I'm sure he had more planned against us in the case of his death. Therefore we should be more cautious now then ever of what is happening around us... Regardless I feel that this was much needed and too bad it did not happen earlier......But........hate only fuels hate ....and if anyone thinks this will end the War they are going to have a rude awakening........... Not being in contact with any friends/family of "actual" victims, it's uncomfortable even to comment. I somehow "feel" that few of them are actually "rejoicing". Without disconnected patriotic chest thumping, I AM glad that they can take a deep breath of (SOME) relief! 
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"This is blood for blood, and by the gallons! This is the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days! They're back!" (Sin City)
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Edited by
Beachfarmer
on
Tue 05/03/11 12:17 PM
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I've been trying to find "my" voice regarding this..but the (quote) of a mastermind of peace summed it up for me... I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Martin Luther King, Jr. A wise man, yes. I believe, sometimes silence speaks volumes. I also understand, though, that people are people, some with views other than my own. Like Joel, here, i also am torn on the issue. I certainly do not condemn those, who have expressed their sentiments in a triumphant or joyous (for lack of a better word at the moment) manner. The bottom line here, is what has happened, has happened. Emotions run high in a situation like this, and folks handle those emotions in different ways. I can see both sides, yes, the man was evil. Well said Markecephus!....and I DO have a certain discomfort with my own (imperfect lack of better phrase) "objective idealism". Being once removed from "directly" affected.....it's not my place to comment on valid emotions, even if I idealisticly disagree. I find it difficult to walk in the shoes I have chosen....MUCH LESS "theirs". |
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From the Bin Laden family history Osama would have been a wealth of info regarding his affiliation with our Gov and CIA. I'll raise my glass to that statement. There are very many people living in this country under suppression and don't even realize it. |
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hmmm.. while i didn't like the dancing in the streets, i think he provided his own trial by his actions and the tapes he would put out on youtube, calling for jihad on america. when your an enemy of the government, calling for the mass murder of our citizens and having the ability and want to do so, i think the trial part is a mute concept. he dug his own grave, we just lowered the coffin.... Except that one small thing. Until there is a trial, it is all just opinion. 'Innocent until proven guilty' was not just a handy catchphrase. It meant something. We lived by it. Until now. Amen |
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Be careful America. The same dance you do now in the streets to celebrate a death, can be the same streets you march down to mourn a death. How different are we than those we condemn? Dancing for Death? Shame I agree. When will we ever stop trying to appease the world by bringing down tyrants? And...when will we ever stop "finding" tyrants to kill?? It's a very sad world that we live in; with people from all walks of life being suppressed but...isn't that what our United Nations are supposed to decide...TOGETHER, if they need to be brought to justice? We did the same Dance of Death when Sadham was killed... And why is it that our Government is trying SO hard to make believers out of us that he's dead? DNA?? WTF?? Like they/we know what his blood type is to know it's actually him. This is a world gone haywire. Where is my ticket home. I'm tired. spock said it best in star trek - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"... tyrants aren't always confined to their own country, and when the world is threatened, either financially or by nukes, sometimes something needs to be done, whether we all agree or not... and i agree with you about the government trying so hard to show us he's dead, something seems wrong about that... they even filmed obama and hillary watching the event go down, without showing any of the action they were "watching"... Saw that...I smell a rat. Fact is, I love my country. I love the people whom have fought and died for our freedom. Years ago it was cut and dry...the north against the south..so on and so forth. From Viet Nam on we have been fighting wars that only concern "Big Business". We send our sons and daughters out with blindfolds on..for what? The almighty dollar. Whether you believe it or not, the great and powerful OZ...the U.S.A. is only concerned with one thing, and that is WORLD DOMONINCE...Not peace, not it's citizens, not even the men and women whom they send off. They will go to any means...I mean ANY means to make themselves look like they are in control. |
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