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| Topic: For those who believe in heaven. | |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? I think these threads are often caught up in the concept of 'need' vs 'want' and 'needs to do' , vs 'chooses to do' I wish to be at home with my creator, much the way I wish to spend time here on earth with my 'blood' relatives |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 05/05/11 02:00 AM
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. so, you reserve the right not to want to see someone who has 'allowed' others to suffer, but that same someone should not reserve the right to not want to 'see' others who have actually committed suffering against others? |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. so, you reserve the right not to want to see someone who has 'allowed' others to suffer, but that same someone should not reserve the right to not want to 'see' others who have actually committed suffering against others? If he's all loving, he's incapable of such things. Otherwise, he fails. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. so, you reserve the right not to want to see someone who has 'allowed' others to suffer, but that same someone should not reserve the right to not want to 'see' others who have actually committed suffering against others? If he's all loving, he's incapable of such things. Otherwise, he fails. loving doesnt mean allowing we can love from a distance we can love and not be with the person AT ALL we can love someone who has chosen a life of prostitution and drugs we can love an abusive spouse,,but still part ways with them loving us, does not require him to accept a non mutual relationship where the love is not a SHARED love it doesnt require him to accept and 'reward' everyone, regardless of their behaviors and choices,,,, love is simply a feeling of wanting the best for someone, its not forcing them to choose it,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 05/05/11 02:26 AM
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. so, you reserve the right not to want to see someone who has 'allowed' others to suffer, but that same someone should not reserve the right to not want to 'see' others who have actually committed suffering against others? If he's all loving, he's incapable of such things. Otherwise, he fails. loving doesnt mean allowing we can love from a distance we can love and not be with the person AT ALL we can love someone who has chosen a life of prostitution and drugs we can love an abusive spouse,,but still part ways with them loving us, does not require him to accept a non mutual relationship where the love is not a SHARED love it doesnt require him to accept and 'reward' everyone, regardless of their behaviors and choices,,,, love is simply a feeling of wanting the best for someone, its not forcing them to choose it,,, So you're saying it's loving to just exclude then? This "loving" creator, who apparently loves everyone basically goes: "I love you all, but I don't wanna see you, you, you, you, or you" That's pretty much what the Bible God does. What's worse, again this "loving" God allows them to burn forever and ever and ever, without any mercy at all upon them. If that's your definition of love, keep it. I don't want it. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. so, you reserve the right not to want to see someone who has 'allowed' others to suffer, but that same someone should not reserve the right to not want to 'see' others who have actually committed suffering against others? If he's all loving, he's incapable of such things. Otherwise, he fails. loving doesnt mean allowing we can love from a distance we can love and not be with the person AT ALL we can love someone who has chosen a life of prostitution and drugs we can love an abusive spouse,,but still part ways with them loving us, does not require him to accept a non mutual relationship where the love is not a SHARED love it doesnt require him to accept and 'reward' everyone, regardless of their behaviors and choices,,,, love is simply a feeling of wanting the best for someone, its not forcing them to choose it,,, So you're saying it's loving to just exclude then? This "loving" creator, who apparently loves everyone basically goes: "I love you all, but I don't wanna see you, you, you, you, or you" That's pretty much what the Bible God does. What's worse, again this "loving" God allows them to burn forever and ever and ever, without any mercy at all upon them. If that's your definition of love, keep it. I don't want it. I dont believe in the burning forever. Im saying that loving doesnt REQUIRE inclusion, which is different than saying it is loving to exclude I am saying, God says, I love you all, but I give you the CHOICE to love me and if you dont I dont force you home to me,,,, that is a just love, that goes beyond our sometimes juvenile idea that 'no matter how bad I treat you or others, you are my parent and should always bail me out with no expectation of any effort on my part to do better' ...just my opinion though |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. threats and reality arent the same,, If I say you can walk to the left or the right, and if you walk to the left a train will hit you thats not a threat, thats me trying to WARN you, but if you dont believe me and walk to the left, that was indeed your CHOICE,,, |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. threats and reality arent the same,, If I say you can walk to the left or the right, and if you walk to the left a train will hit you thats not a threat, thats me trying to WARN you, but if you dont believe me and walk to the left, that was indeed your CHOICE,,, No it IS a threat, your God says you either do as I say, believe as I say, or you die. You may have been conditioned to think this is all in love, but it's not the case. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 05/05/11 03:16 AM
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"One day Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord" ................ Ok....the point in sharing the above scripture , is this: IF you take ANY scripture out of context, it will NOT make Sense!! You have to consider the WHOLE picture....not just part. To begin with , NO ONE knows ALL of the bible . One could study the bible for years and years and years , and still barely scratch the surface. The depths and riches of the bible are THAT DEEP!!! That is why we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. Not man. BUT, that doesn't mean you can't GET STARTED reading and knowing the Bible RIGHT NOW . But in order to get started knowing and understanding the bible, first YA GOTTA OPEN THE BOOK AND READ!! FOR YOURSELF.  And LISTEN to God's Word...with YOUR HEART. Just listen....and read.....listen ...and read.... and God Will do the rest. NO ONE comes to the Father anyway,except the Father draws one unto Him. And yes ,God WILL woooo you unto him..... when he sees you are REALLY ready to hear. JUST BECAUSE one does NOT believe today, doesn't mean his heart won't be ready to believe and recieve God tomorrow. God is a God of LOVE...and wishes that NONE should perish. He is ever patient. Here is a Suggestion: Go to the Word. To begin with: Go to the book of JOHN... begin reading there .. BUT read with a childlike, searching , sincere, wanting to know heart. Have a little talk with Jesus...yea..... come to him just as you are.....just be real..... cause , just in case you didn't know this, God does NOT want robots are blind followers, WHO HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR UNDERSTANDING OF WHO HE IS!!!!! Ask GOD to SHOW you the Truth.. ask GOD to make the Truth CLEAR to you..... and He will. I Promise You..He Will. Love You All.  So Does God. http://www.inchristalone.org/HowGetFaith.htm |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. threats and reality arent the same,, If I say you can walk to the left or the right, and if you walk to the left a train will hit you thats not a threat, thats me trying to WARN you, but if you dont believe me and walk to the left, that was indeed your CHOICE,,, No it IS a threat, your God says you either do as I say, believe as I say, or you die. You may have been conditioned to think this is all in love, but it's not the case. and if there were no God, what would be your option at the end of this life? DEATH so its not a threat, its reality,, you can die or have everlasting life,,those are the two choices he gives US to make |
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"One day Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" ................ Ok....the point in sharing the above scripture , is this: IF you take ANY scripture out of context, it will NOT make Sense!! You have to consider the whole picture..not just part. NO ONE knows all of the bible without thoroughly studying it for years. And the depths and riches of the bible are sooooo deep, that even then, one would barely touch the surface. That is why we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. Not man. BUT, to get started knowing and understanding the bible, first open the book and read. And listen to god's Word..with yuor heart. Just listen..and let God do the rest. NO ONE comes to the father anyway,except the father draw one unto Him. God WILL woooo you unto him.....when he sees you are ready to hear. JUST BECAUSE one does NOT believe today, doesn't mean his heart won't be ready to believe and recieve God tomorrow. God is a God of LOVE...and wishes that NONE should perish. He is ever patient. Here is a Suggestion: Go to the Word. To begin with: Go to the book of John... begin reading there .. BUT read with a childlike, searching , sincere, wanting to know heart. Have a little talk with Jesus...yea..... come to him just as you are.....just be real..... cause , just in case you did not know this, God does NOT want robots are blind followers with NO UNDERSTANDING OF WHO HE IS!!!!! ask HIM to SHOW you the truth..and make the truth CLEAR to you..... and He will. I Promise You..He Will. Love you all. So does God. http://www.inchristalone.org/HowGetFaith.htm nice commentary |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 05/05/11 02:51 AM
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. threats and reality arent the same,, If I say you can walk to the left or the right, and if you walk to the left a train will hit you thats not a threat, thats me trying to WARN you, but if you dont believe me and walk to the left, that was indeed your CHOICE,,, No it IS a threat, your God says you either do as I say, believe as I say, or you die. You may have been conditioned to think this is all in love, but it's not the case. and if there were no God, what would be your option at the end of this life? DEATH so its not a threat, its reality,, you can die or have everlasting life,,those are the two choices he gives US to make No it's MAN's choices, to keep us obedient to them. It's nothing from a loving God, in the least. I do believe very much in a God, a creator, whatever you wish to call it, for the record. But the Biblical version is not Him. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? Better question, who would want to see a creator that excludes certain people? A supposedly all loving creator. I don't think I would if I knew he was allowing others to burn and suffer while I was with him. Well, no one said you are required to see Him. Ah now we come back to that, we're not required. Oh that totally justifies an all loving God allowing countless souls to burn, and be tortured and suffer for all eternity right. I think NOT. It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. threats and reality arent the same,, If I say you can walk to the left or the right, and if you walk to the left a train will hit you thats not a threat, thats me trying to WARN you, but if you dont believe me and walk to the left, that was indeed your CHOICE,,, No it IS a threat, your God says you either do as I say, believe as I say, or you die. You may have been conditioned to think this is all in love, but it's not the case. and if there were no God, what would be your option at the end of this life? DEATH so its not a threat, its reality,, you can die or have everlasting life,,those are the two choices he gives US to make No it's MAN's choices, to keep us obedient to them. It's nothing from a loving God, in the least. I do believe very much in a God, a creator, whatever you wish to call it, for the record. But the Biblical version is not Him. I suppose its more of how you live your life than what kind of God you 'think' he is,,, |
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"One day Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" ................ Ok....the point in sharing the above scripture , is this: IF you take ANY scripture out of context, it will NOT make Sense!! You have to consider the whole picture..not just part. NO ONE knows all of the bible . One could study the bible for years , and barely scratch the surface. The depths and riches of the bible are THAT DEEP!!! That is why we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. Not man. BUT, it doesn't mean you cant GET STARTED reading and knowing the Bible . But in order to get started knowing and understanding the bible, first YA GOTTA OPEN THE BOOK AND READ!! FOR YOURSELF. And LISTEN to God's Word..with YOUR HEART. Just listen..and let God do the rest. NO ONE comes to the father anyway,except the father draw one unto Him. God WILL woooo you unto him.....when he sees you are ready to hear. JUST BECAUSE one does NOT believe today, doesn't mean his heart won't be ready to believe and recieve God tomorrow. God is a God of LOVE...and wishes that NONE should perish. He is ever patient. Here is a Suggestion: Go to the Word. To begin with: Go to the book of John... begin reading there .. BUT read with a childlike, searching , sincere, wanting to know heart. Have a little talk with Jesus...yea..... come to him just as you are.....just be real..... cause , just in case you did not know this, God does NOT want robots are blind followers with NO UNDERSTANDING OF WHO HE IS!!!!! ask HIM to SHOW you the truth..and make the truth CLEAR to you..... and He will. I Promise You..He Will. Love you all. So does God. http://www.inchristalone.org/HowGetFaith.htm No thanks, I reject the Bible outright as a source of real truth now, nothing is gonna change it. |
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It is called Free Will. Same deal as freedom in our country. You are free to do or believe anything you want. but you will have consequences for your behaviors. All I am saying is everything has consequences. Both in this world and the next. It's hardly free will when you're being held to the proverbial fire, or at least death if you don't do it. That's like the relationship where you're told you can leave, but you'll be beaten senseless if you do. This is no different. Free will does not mesh with threats. Never has, never will. There is no threat involved in Free Will. God essentially is saying, "Here I am, come to Me and I will give you rest." He is not forcing you to. Forcing you to come to Him would not be love. Why do you think it would be? He gives you the choice, but He set the rules. You must live with the consequences of your choice. A life with Him or without. That is your choice. That is all that Free Will is about. Do you believe in and love God or not. You want the rule to be, "You must accept me and save me no matter how much I spit in your direction and push and pull away from you." He is welcoming you. But He cannot make you come to Him. If you choose to push Him away He can't stop you from doing it. If He could, then you would not have Free Will. But that doesn't mean He won't cry that He has lost you. He loves all His children. He really doesn't ask for much. I don't know why those that don't believe in Him think He does. |
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