Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: For those who believe in heaven.
Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Sat 04/30/11 03:23 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? So you like the idea of heaven because when you get there, you will feel special that you got into that exclusive club? Sounds a bit like snobbery to me. no, not at all, just reality Im not being a snob, I just am cognizant of a certain action and consequence reality to existing if all things lead to the EXACT Same consequence, that would certainly disrupt the point of a consequence in the first place,,wouldnt it? If I could get in harvard with straight ds at the community college, than what would that do to the person who studied their behind off and got bs and as ? IF I could have the same freedom to move about and enjoy life after robbing someone, as someone who had never committed any crimes If I told my children that I would buy them ice cream if they cleaned the house and then one cleaned and one didnt but they both still got ice cream? would that be a just system? certainly, it is balanced for different situations and chains of action to lead to different ends? not to mention , the manual itself is pretty clear,,that not ALL Will go Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. logically speaking, what are the odds that EVERY path is going to lead to the same destination? The error here though is that you think the Bible speaks for God, how do you know that's true? A book can say anything it wants, it doesn't neccessarily make it right. Think outside of the book for a minute. I did think outside the book,,when I said speaking logically, how probable is it that EVERY path leads to the same destination? But you had also said, that the manual says not everyone will make it, like it's absolute truth, but how do you know that?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 03:25 PM Edited by msharmony on Sat 04/30/11 03:26 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? So you like the idea of heaven because when you get there, you will feel special that you got into that exclusive club? Sounds a bit like snobbery to me. no, not at all, just reality Im not being a snob, I just am cognizant of a certain action and consequence reality to existing if all things lead to the EXACT Same consequence, that would certainly disrupt the point of a consequence in the first place,,wouldnt it? If I could get in harvard with straight ds at the community college, than what would that do to the person who studied their behind off and got bs and as ? IF I could have the same freedom to move about and enjoy life after robbing someone, as someone who had never committed any crimes If I told my children that I would buy them ice cream if they cleaned the house and then one cleaned and one didnt but they both still got ice cream? would that be a just system? certainly, it is balanced for different situations and chains of action to lead to different ends? not to mention , the manual itself is pretty clear,,that not ALL Will go Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. logically speaking, what are the odds that EVERY path is going to lead to the same destination? The error here though is that you think the Bible speaks for God, how do you know that's true? A book can say anything it wants, it doesn't neccessarily make it right. Think outside of the book for a minute. I did think outside the book,,when I said speaking logically, how probable is it that EVERY path leads to the same destination? But you had also said, that the manual says not everyone will make it, like it's absolute truth, but how do you know that? I dont care to do the 'how do you know' discussion, I did say, however, that the manual says not everyone will make it, because it does what people choose to accept or not accept as truth is up to them but has no bearing on what the truth IS...(or will be)

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Sat 04/30/11 03:30 PM Edited by Kleisto on Sat 04/30/11 03:31 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? So you like the idea of heaven because when you get there, you will feel special that you got into that exclusive club? Sounds a bit like snobbery to me. no, not at all, just reality Im not being a snob, I just am cognizant of a certain action and consequence reality to existing if all things lead to the EXACT Same consequence, that would certainly disrupt the point of a consequence in the first place,,wouldnt it? If I could get in harvard with straight ds at the community college, than what would that do to the person who studied their behind off and got bs and as ? IF I could have the same freedom to move about and enjoy life after robbing someone, as someone who had never committed any crimes If I told my children that I would buy them ice cream if they cleaned the house and then one cleaned and one didnt but they both still got ice cream? would that be a just system? certainly, it is balanced for different situations and chains of action to lead to different ends? not to mention , the manual itself is pretty clear,,that not ALL Will go Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. logically speaking, what are the odds that EVERY path is going to lead to the same destination? The error here though is that you think the Bible speaks for God, how do you know that's true? A book can say anything it wants, it doesn't neccessarily make it right. Think outside of the book for a minute. I did think outside the book,,when I said speaking logically, how probable is it that EVERY path leads to the same destination? But you had also said, that the manual says not everyone will make it, like it's absolute truth, but how do you know that? I dont care to do the 'how do you know' discussion, I did say, however, that the manual says not everyone will make it, because it does what people choose to accept or not accept as truth is up to them but has no bearing on what the truth IS...(or will be) Well put it this way, what happens if you're wrong? And why not on the how do you know? Can you not prove your side?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 04/30/11 04:02 PM
Well put it this way, what happens if you're wrong? And why not on the how do you know? Can you not prove your side? This is about religion and belief, not about proving any side.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 04:05 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? So you like the idea of heaven because when you get there, you will feel special that you got into that exclusive club? Sounds a bit like snobbery to me. no, not at all, just reality Im not being a snob, I just am cognizant of a certain action and consequence reality to existing if all things lead to the EXACT Same consequence, that would certainly disrupt the point of a consequence in the first place,,wouldnt it? If I could get in harvard with straight ds at the community college, than what would that do to the person who studied their behind off and got bs and as ? IF I could have the same freedom to move about and enjoy life after robbing someone, as someone who had never committed any crimes If I told my children that I would buy them ice cream if they cleaned the house and then one cleaned and one didnt but they both still got ice cream? would that be a just system? certainly, it is balanced for different situations and chains of action to lead to different ends? not to mention , the manual itself is pretty clear,,that not ALL Will go Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. logically speaking, what are the odds that EVERY path is going to lead to the same destination? The error here though is that you think the Bible speaks for God, how do you know that's true? A book can say anything it wants, it doesn't neccessarily make it right. Think outside of the book for a minute. I did think outside the book,,when I said speaking logically, how probable is it that EVERY path leads to the same destination? But you had also said, that the manual says not everyone will make it, like it's absolute truth, but how do you know that? I dont care to do the 'how do you know' discussion, I did say, however, that the manual says not everyone will make it, because it does what people choose to accept or not accept as truth is up to them but has no bearing on what the truth IS...(or will be) Well put it this way, what happens if you're wrong? And why not on the how do you know? Can you not prove your side? no, because the how do you know discussion always seems to center on the RELEVANCE one finds in another persons source of information,,,a endless cycle I get tired of participating in I cant prove in black in white on a computer screen ANYTHING other than what has been written or quoted by someone else If Im wrong, nothing happens except that I return to the dust from which I came

zunelander Joined Sun 11/08/09 Posts: 54	Sat 04/30/11 04:07 PM Edited by zunelander on Sat 04/30/11 04:10 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start as well as the books by author Michael Wood: The Jesus Secret, Breaking The Romans Code, The Hidden Bible, and The Jerome Conspiracy. Definitely would not hurt to pick up those books and read them. They are bible based and awesome eye openers.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 04/30/11 04:09 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) Well I'm coming to your church.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 04:10 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:)

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 04:10 PM Edited by msharmony on Sat 04/30/11 04:11 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 04/30/11 04:17 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Sat 04/30/11 04:23 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely.

zunelander Joined Sun 11/08/09 Posts: 54	Sat 04/30/11 04:25 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) Well I'm coming to your church. LOL. My church is simple: Do what Jesus says: Love thy neighbor as thyself. Do this and you shall live. Why is it so important? Because how you treat your fellow man is how God sees you treating "Him" in the flesh. That's why Jesus makes it a point to show that how you treat others is the royal law (James 2:8). I'm just sharing what I believe the original bible teaches. My church has no walls. It's made of flesh and bone and it is in you. Just love your neighbor. Show love and compassion, for you are doing it to God when you do. Show hate and maliciousness and the like, you are doing it to God. Of course, I'm playing along with your statement about me having a church, but I hope you get my point:) I actually don't go to church. Going to church is not a requirement to being justified by God. It's actually considered a work, as in, not saved by works. As the bible says, the doers of the law are justified, not the hearers. And the law is love thy neighbor as thyself. Why else would an uncircumcised man be seen as if he were circumcised just by him being a doer of the law? Because circumcision is a work, but actually being a doer of the law is what saves you(Romans 2:26)

zunelander Joined Sun 11/08/09 Posts: 54	Sat 04/30/11 04:26 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 04:26 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. ITs not such a useless resource to me, its just not always simple. I Think the verse Zune so lovingly refers to, is not a statement that all will be made alive in an absolute sense, it is the utterances of paul speaking to believers about the difference between physical life(adam) and the spiritual existence (Jesus),,,the context of the discussion, actually is in regards to being risen from physical death but not a reference, necessarily, to seeing the kingdom at least, thats how I interpret it and how I correlate the two verses in a way which makes sense

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 04:33 PM Edited by msharmony on Sat 04/30/11 04:34 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ,,,this seems to imply there are some souls which will not enter the kingdom (not EVERY one) Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. why would a distinction of RIGHTEOUS need to be made if it made no difference in the end? Luke 6: 24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. 25Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets ...jesus seems to be suggesting a contrast for those who will be able to rejoice and those who will have woe,,,, suggesting to me that it wont be ALL who can rejoice at the end,,, it could also be that he was speaking to a specific audience in his presence, not meant for everyone throughout time, but even that suggests a recognition by JESUS that everyone will not share the same experience,,,

zunelander Joined Sun 11/08/09 Posts: 54	Sat 04/30/11 04:39 PM Edited by zunelander on Sat 04/30/11 04:40 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. ITs not such a useless resource to me, its just not always simple. I Think the verse Zune so lovingly refers to, is not a statement that all will be made alive in an absolute sense, it is the utterances of paul speaking to believers about the difference between physical life(adam) and the spiritual existence (Jesus),,,the context of the discussion, actually is in regards to being risen from physical death but not a reference, necessarily, to seeing the kingdom at least, thats how I interpret it and how I correlate the two verses in a way which makes sense I think I get what you're saying, but even if in Adam ALL physically die, in Christ ALL spiritually live. After all, it does not say, "In Adam ALL die. Even so in Christ SOME shall be made alive". I still think it's a comparison of the first Adam and the second Adam. The first has to do with death while the second has to do with life. The first applied to everyone. The second also applies to everyone. It's an equal comparison between the two.

zunelander Joined Sun 11/08/09 Posts: 54	Sat 04/30/11 04:52 PM
Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ,,,this seems to imply there are some souls which will not enter the kingdom (not EVERY one) Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. why would a distinction of RIGHTEOUS need to be made if it made no difference in the end? Luke 6: 24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. 25Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets ...jesus seems to be suggesting a contrast for those who will be able to rejoice and those who will have woe,,,, suggesting to me that it wont be ALL who can rejoice at the end,,, it could also be that he was speaking to a specific audience in his presence, not meant for everyone throughout time, but even that suggests a recognition by JESUS that everyone will not share the same experience,,, I'm working on this. Give me some time before I post it:)

s1owhand Joined Fri 05/18/07 Posts: 29437	Sat 04/30/11 05:22 PM
It is like sex with Jessica Alba.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 04/30/11 05:43 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,,

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Sat 04/30/11 05:52 PM Edited by Kleisto on Sat 04/30/11 05:53 PM
interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day.