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| Topic: For those who believe in heaven. | |
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 04/30/11 06:23 PM
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up Actually if you look into past, it can be. Anytime something has went against their agenda, it has become outlawed, abolished, or even outright destroyed in the case of some texts. The criminalization of marijuana is one example of this among others. That the Bible still exists to the public, along with texts of other faiths along with it, it says that it has some use to them, otherwise we wouldn't see it. |
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sat 04/30/11 06:33 PM
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Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
MY REPLY: I've actually been thinking about this verse for a while after having read the books I suggested earlier. The reason I believe that not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord!!" will enter heaven is because they were not the doers of God's will, which is Christ's law: love thy neighbor as self. They were the doers of works: Things they thought they had to do in order to be saved/justified before God. As I pointed out earlier, the DOERS of the law are justified before God. Works do not save a person. ,,,this seems to imply there are some souls which will not enter the kingdom (not EVERY one) MY REPLY: It does seems so, doesn't it? I would agree here. However, there's more to it than just what you know thus far. Stay tuned:) Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. why would a distinction of RIGHTEOUS need to be made if it made no difference in the end? MY REPLY: In the very end, it does not make any difference. However, in between, it does. You see, you may be thinking of a place called hell where those who have not accepted Jesus as their personal Savior will end up. Being tormented forever because they rejected Jesus. However, in the original language, hell is not hell as we have been taught. It is Gehenna. A place of temporary punishment. The righteous are not only Christians or those who have accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. The righteous are those who follow Christ's law, love thy neighbor as thyself. Of which this could be anyone. Not necessarily a Christian. "Believing in Jesus" is not about accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour. It's about believing what Jesus said saves and living accordingly. That is what "believing in Jesus" means, as I understand it. You follow the law, you are justified. Christian or not. God is no respector of persons. The bible has Jesus separating people on his left and people on his right. This can be found in Matthew chapter 25. Jesus separates those who loved their neighbor from those who did not. Those who cast out devils in Jesus' name and who do all other such things except love their neighbor, they are the ones told "I never knew you!" Anything outside of how you treat your neighor is works. And as mentioned, no one is saved by works. How you treat your neighbor is the summation of all the law and the Prophets. There is a distinction between those who are the doers of the law (the righteous) and those who do not live by the law but know it (the hearers/the unrighteous). It exists because there are two types of people in the world: the righteous and the unrighteous. If you are not a doer of the law, you will have to go through a purging process before you are reconciled to God in the very end. That which is within you that kept you from loving others will have to be purged from you before you spend eternity with God. The place this takes place in has been mistranslated as being a placed called hell in our modern day bibles. Only, we have been taught that it's eternal torment for unChristians. Instead, as I see it, it is Gehenna in the original bible. The original Christians believed in temporary punishment, not eternal punishment. Eternal punishment was introduced around the 5th century by a man named Jerome who was asked to translate the bible into Latin (ie. the Latin Vulgate). So, the distinction exits because the fact is there are two groups of people in the world: those who love their neighbor as self and those who do not. The distinction matters because if you don't live by the law the first time around, you are separated from those who did live by the law. You will have to endure your punishment for an age (ie. a limited amount of time) and then you will be reconciled to God, as 1 Corinthians 15:22 states. Paul knew this. He speaks of it in Romans 11:24-32. I believe this is the secret or mystery he hints of in these verses. Luke 6: 24 But woe to you who are rich,for you have already received your comfort. 25Woe to you who are well fed now,for you will go hungry.Woe to you who laugh now,for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you,for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets ...jesus seems to be suggesting a contrast for those who will be able to rejoice and those who will have woe,,,, suggesting to me that it wont be ALL who can rejoice at the end,,, it could also be that he was speaking to a specific audience in his presence, not meant for everyone throughout time, but even that suggests a recognition by JESUS that everyone will not share the same experience,,, MY REPLY: You are right! Not everyone will share the same experience. Some are immediately reconciled to God (ie. Those who are righteous because they lived by by Christ's law). Others will not have that experience due to their disobedience to the law. They will experience something else before they are reconciled to God. In regards to the verses in this quote, if you are rich, but money owns you, woe unto you. You need to give some of that money to those in need. If you have much food, but do not share it, woe to you. If you are well spoken of, big deal! Are you well spoken of because you are one who loves your neighbor as self? In the right contexts, these things are good. In the wrong context, which I believe these examples are being mentioned in, they are not so good. |
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it is unimaginable. that's why i don't try to imagine it.
 
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up Actually if you look into past, it can be. Anytime something has went against their agenda, it has become outlawed, abolished, or even outright destroyed in the case of some texts. The criminalization of marijuana is one example of this among others. That the Bible still exists to the public, along with texts of other faiths along with it, it says that it has some use to them, otherwise we wouldn't see it. looking into the past is not a way to back up a guarantee, because no two situations will be EXACTLY the same if the world were that easily definable, we would just do the things that worked for EVERYONE else and they would work for us,, but the trouble is none of us have ALL THE EXACT details to duplicate what someone else was able to work |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 05/01/11 02:46 AM
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up Actually if you look into past, it can be. Anytime something has went against their agenda, it has become outlawed, abolished, or even outright destroyed in the case of some texts. The criminalization of marijuana is one example of this among others. That the Bible still exists to the public, along with texts of other faiths along with it, it says that it has some use to them, otherwise we wouldn't see it. looking into the past is not a way to back up a guarantee, because no two situations will be EXACTLY the same Perhaps not, but remember this: "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" Example: It is a well known fact, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident that sparked our involvement in the Vietnam war never happened. It was admitted as such many many years after the fact. Now, I ask you, if our government will do something like that once, who's to say they won't or haven't done something like it again since? 9-11 comes to mind to that end. My point in saying that is simply this: When you look back into the history of our government and the powers that be as a whole, there is a long trail of suppression when it comes to things that serve as a threat to them and their power. A leopard doesn't change its' spots. If they've done it once, and could get away with it, they surely will and have in fact done it again. It is up to US to recognize it. If we can't, they will and do keep right on doing it. |
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up Actually if you look into past, it can be. Anytime something has went against their agenda, it has become outlawed, abolished, or even outright destroyed in the case of some texts. The criminalization of marijuana is one example of this among others. That the Bible still exists to the public, along with texts of other faiths along with it, it says that it has some use to them, otherwise we wouldn't see it. looking into the past is not a way to back up a guarantee, because no two situations will be EXACTLY the same Perhaps not, but remember this: "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" Example: It is a well known fact, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident that sparked our involvement in the Vietnam war never happened. It was admitted as such many many years after the fact. Now, I ask you, if our government will do something like that once, who's to say they won't or haven't done something like it again since? 9-11 comes to mind to that end. My point in saying that is simply this: When you look back into the history of our government and the powers that be as a whole, there is a long trail of suppression when it comes to things that serve as a threat to them and their power. A leopard doesn't change its' spots. If they've done it once, and could get away with it, they surely will and have in fact done it again. It is up to US to recognize it. If we can't, they will and do keep right on doing it. I understand the potential for things to happen. I just dont agree there is that level of Unity on the earth. Even the leaders dont truly all cooperate with each other because even they are constantly competing to out do each other. What one government bans as dangerous, another government does not(think the anarchists cookbook). I would highly doubt there would be ANY information that all governments would agree to ban or have the resource to . |
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What is heaven like? Seriously, if you believe you are going to heaven, tell me what your life will be like there. Will there be food? Sex? Toilets? Houses? Lawns? Lawn mowers? it is just like this - except the heavenly version... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc |
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"Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" how these absurd "old sayings" became old is a mystery to me. by that logic if i didn't know of the holocost i would be doomed to perpetrate another one. |
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"Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" how these absurd "old sayings" became old is a mystery to me. by that logic if i didn't know of the holocost i would be doomed to perpetrate another one. Its about learning from the mistakes of the past. Let's just say that if men in black vans pull into your town and start loading people onto trains, ...... don't go. |
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"Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" how these absurd "old sayings" became old is a mystery to me. by that logic if i didn't know of the holocost i would be doomed to perpetrate another one. lol, that one always puzzled me too..lol I think it would be more accurate to say, if you dont learn hard lessons from others, you are more likely to have to learn those hard lessons yourself If I see someone walk around a blind corner and fall off a cliff I am much less likely to walk that corner myself but if I dont happen to see it , that doesnt mean Im DOOMED to walk the corner,,,lol |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 05/01/11 12:37 PM
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"Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" how these absurd "old sayings" became old is a mystery to me. by that logic if i didn't know of the holocost i would be doomed to perpetrate another one. Its about learning from the mistakes of the past. Let's just say that if men in black vans pull into your town and start loading people onto trains, ...... don't go. Precisely. It's one thing to be aware of the past, it's another to learn from it. Needless to say, I believe there is a great many people who fall into the former category, as opposed to the latter. In fact, I might even say some of us aren't fully aware of the past either. |
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reminds me of a profound song that says it all....
"Imagine there's no heaven, above us only ....sky" Heaven is just another imaginary aspect of religion, like hell, heaven totally defies logic and reason. I am constantly amazed, here in 2011 with our access to vast knowledge, that so many people still grasp onto such imaginary, delusional concepts as heaven and hell. Just enjoy life and be good for goodness sake :) |
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reminds me of a profound song that says it all.... "Imagine there's no heaven, above us only ....sky" Heaven is just another imaginary aspect of religion, like hell, heaven totally defies logic and reason. I am constantly amazed, here in 2011 with our access to vast knowledge, that so many people still grasp onto such imaginary, delusional concepts as heaven and hell. Just enjoy life and be good for goodness sake :) And be good because Santa is watching. (or is it the all seeing eye?) (Big Brother?) |
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Future history classes...
Studying us through the looking glass of time. Watching our every move.  Perhaps you are their thesis....  The study of Jenniebean in her natural habitat.  Looking over your shoulder yet? |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites
IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him I dont think there are guarantees because I think we tend to not have a spirtually just judgment of ourself or others,,,, but I think we can TRY to live life followin the examples of Christ and the laws which he reinforced in his living,and that it is more probable we will join the Father if we do so than if we REFUSE to do so or if we only do that which gives us earthly rewards,,, |
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. It is, people have got to understand that the Bible, much like any other so called holy book was written by man, with the intention to control the masses with it. Do you really think if it had ALL the truth, that it'd ever see the light of day? That those in power would let it be put out? Of course not! It's out there as it is cause they WANT it out there, for their own gains, not because it's the truth. If it was, it'd be hidden away if not destroyed entirely. I agree it is written by men, I disagree it is with the intention to control the masses, unless we are using a very general form of the word 'control' to include any guidance given to others,,, than yes, it is a control, a set of boundaries, a map,,,,etc,,, You aren't understanding. The government and those that run this world, have always used things for their own gain. IF by some chance, the Bible was all truth, I can GUARANTEE you, it would NOT be put out there like it is. It would never see the light of day. with respect, I dont believe its a guarantee that can be backed up Actually if you look into past, it can be. Anytime something has went against their agenda, it has become outlawed, abolished, or even outright destroyed in the case of some texts. The criminalization of marijuana is one example of this among others. That the Bible still exists to the public, along with texts of other faiths along with it, it says that it has some use to them, otherwise we wouldn't see it. Explain why communist nations ban it then??? The Bible was routinely smuggled into the USSR at great risk to the smugglers. |
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him I dont think there are guarantees because I think we tend to not have a spirtually just judgment of ourself or others,,,, but I think we can TRY to live life followin the examples of Christ and the laws which he reinforced in his living,and that it is more probable we will join the Father if we do so than if we REFUSE to do so or if we only do that which gives us earthly rewards,,, Aye... Live the word... Not the bringer of it... For he has passed to the Kindom of the Father. But the word has not. Those that, as you put it "refuse", will find also heaven... As they so loved the 'earthly' things that will be the portion of their percieved 'heaven'... Such a small place. The Heaven of Holiness is greater. Being the throne room of the mansion and the Abode of the Glory of God. |
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Let's put it this way...
"God only knows"
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in life there are no guarantees, but there are probabilites IF you work hard in life YOU might become successful, but its not guaranteed,, however, its more probable than if you do nothing If you seek ur creator, you may find him, but its not guaranteed,,,,however, its more probable than if you turn away from him Why would anyone need to see their creator anyway? |
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