I'm of the opinion that the question of God's existence is ultimately a scientific one. If God is real and has an effect on the universe we ought to be able to measure it. For example, prayer (if it is real) is a transfer of energy from one's own mind to God. Something must move out of the prayer's brain and go out into the universe in order to communicate with God. If so why couldn't we find a way to measure it or at least measure it's effects?

This isn't a debate about whether or not God is real. It's about whether or not God's existence is a scientific question.

There was a real scientific study of prayer done in 2006. The results can be found here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

I look forward to reading your thoughts.

One explanation as to why the people who were prayed for did not do as good is they might have not tried as hard to heal them self. Mental state has a lot to do with healing, if you give up on that because you think that a magical force will take care of everything then maybe they will not take their medication or eat like they are suppose to or something like that. I am sure there are other thoughts as to why the ones prayed for did worse than the ones that but that is just my thought off the top of my head...

I cant really answer this from a scientific point as i am not a scientist, but I can answer it from what i have seen.
I believe in prayer, But I dont believe that if you ask for something you are going to get it, of course if you ask a parent for something you are not always going to get it at times the answer will be NO.

When my son was born his spine hadnt formed properly, his lungs didnt work properly he was born with only one kidney that wasnt working properly and he never cried, the doctors told my dad to prepare me as he wouldnt make it out of the hospital. The hospital did what they could, but he was left to see what would happen , all we had was prayer. He made it out of the hospital and i was told if he got through his first winter he may be ok.. his first winter was spent in hospitals with pneumonia at 5 months old he got meningitus and once again I was told that he wouldnt make, so again people prayed and waited, well when he got out of the hospital we just waited to see what damage had been done
By the time he was 1 he was a very happy little boy, who just laid there and smiled at every one, but he couldnt walk or crawl. We had been told that he would never be able to walk to crawl or sit up, at 16 months we where told that he was deaf and would never talk.
When he was 2 he still couldnt roll over, sit or move around, but he could smile. The doctors organised to send him to sydney to have him put into braces so that he would be able to stand with a frame around his little body, the day before we left a visiting american asked if he could pray for him that he believed God wanted him to.( I am not saying that God is real just that this is my experience) anyway he did and the church set up a prayer chain which had people praying constantly for him.
Anyway the next day we arrived in sydney and went to get the braces fitted, I put Mikey on the floor and he started to roll and crawl around, this was a little boy who had only been able to lay in a beanbag and not move, even in his pram he had to be specially strapped in so his muscles that had been damaged could straighten out .
So scientifically the doctors stillhave no idea what happened, They called him the miracle baby. I have no idea what happened and cant really say as I am not supposed to say God is real

Really I dont think scientifically it can really be proven as nobody can determine when or what God will do. I guess the closest scientific thing I can say is that the doctors could find no scientific reason that my son can now act like any other 19 year old, they where stumped.
Now he works, he is a great athelete, He still has everything wrong with him that he was born with but it just doesnt have the effect on him that it should.

He is still deaf but he can speak so that you cannot really tell.

God is not a scientific phenomenon being immeasurable, omnipotent and omnipresent in our lives.

It is just like the origin of human being which has yet to be scientifically proven. There is Darwin's theory which remains to be a theory having a missing link.

Just as nobody has ever utilized 100% of human brain, so is human knowledge having limitation about everything. Meaning, there is no scientific explanations for EVERY thing that exists in this world.

Here is what each of these terms means to a scientist:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to describe, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and universal, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook’s law of elasticity.

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Unfortunately, even some scientists often use the term "theory" in a more colloquial sense, when they really mean to say "hypothesis." That makes its true meaning in science even more confusing to the general public.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.

Scientific law is solid, and mathematical equations are something that you can grasp and see how they have ome to the conclusion that they are showing you.

However for me regardless of What a theory consists of it is still just a hypotheses, just an observation that has been proven by more observatin but no actual proof that I can see in my hand or work out in my head, they are just someone elses beliefs even though they are highly educated guesses, I will believe when it is scientific law. That is solid.

Hmmm not sure if this is relevant to the topic or is it just relevant to the above message.

Hmmm i dont actually understand why a prayer would need to be a transfer of energy, if God;s spirit lives in us, why do we need to transfer anything..
do not try and confuse me to much here, my limited brain function may misfunction and go into overlaod.

That was a heartwarming story. I'm glad things are turning out well for you and your son. I understand and respect the premise of the original question here, but sometimes it is just better to sit back and appreciate the good that comes into our lives and not question where it came from or why...Know what I mean?

Yep Sometimes people spend so much time analyzing things that the true miracles are forgotten in the formulas that are used trying to work it out

Ah, so now josie68 wants to re-write the dictionary. The words mean what they mean. In order for us to communicate we must agree on what the words mean. I feel the dictionary definitions should apply.

Something must be moving from inside your brain to God for him/her to get the message. A thought is a tiny impulse of energy and information. It must move from you to God to be heard, even if it all takes place within your own head.

I agree.

Of course in this scene, God is not clearly defined, but lets talk about what prayer actually is.

Prayer is thought.

Next question: Where does thought originate from?

I think, it originates from the mind. (Not the brain.)

Here, we must define "the mind."

I think, a person's individual mind is a unified quantum field. Unified means that is in some way contained and connected to the human brain and body, but it is not inside the brain. It surrounds the body.

That individual mind has a quantum connection to other fields outside its boundaries. All fields are or can be connected and pass thought information back and forth into the larger field of mind... what some call the subconscious mind. That can also be called the universal mind.

Thoughts are things, hence they can be measured and even projected into the quantum field. These are visualizations or prayers.

As Wallace D. Wattles states it:

"THERE is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe. A thought in this substance produces the thing that is imaged by the thought. Man can form things in his thought, and by impressing his thought upon formless substance can cause the thing he thinks about to be created.
In order to do this, man must pass from the competitive to the creative mind; otherwise he cannot be in harmony with the Formless Intelligence, which is always creative and never competitive in spirit."

I don't think josie is trying to rewrite the dictionary.

A Scientific Law can be "proven" experimentally, and repeatedly.

A Scientific Theory can not be proven, The theory is usually derived as the result of observations, and is only "verified" to the extent that it accurately confirms the Hypothesis under the experimental and observable conditions available at the time.

There are many scientific theories that have been proven wrong as technology and new information becomes available. At one time the theories that the World was Flat, the Earth was the center of the Solar system, and the Universe was static were all accepted scientific theories.

paul1217,

I don't think those were theories, more like religious ideas.

all thoughts are energy and can be measured, prayer is a thought put out 'there' so of course it's powerful, I don't doubt it for one minute.

I don't think, however it has anything to do with religion or even 'god'. Thoughts are energy and have power is all...

Maybe God is energy.

i'd bet on that before i would that 'god' is an old white beared man....fo sho!!!

I think your'e referring to Santa.

Oh My gosh, You are so funny.
I am Australian my words can mean anything I want them to mean, If i think they are proper words then they are proper words.
Oh my gosh a dictionary am I supposed to have one, I remember at school they made us use them to put our words in alphabetical order.
My kids use it for the same thing.

So which of my words did I put in the wrong place, since that is the thing that seems to stuck in your dunny at the moment.
Could you please let me know so I can stick a different one in that spot..
Texas Scoundral you have kept me amused the last few days, this has been so much fun

Do people really check their dictionary's, I am not being silly here I am serious, dont you just put a word where it fits and people understand,
We all use our words and understand each other without dictionary's.

Hmmm but then again, noramlly our discussion on science and God involve a lot of laughter and fun, nobody really corrects we just discuss our differences and nobody ever would think of insulting someones intelligence as the majority of us here didnt finish highschool. so to point out something in an arrogant way would probably end up with you laying on the floor with at least one black eye and possibly a bleeding lip.

The Static Universe theory was Einstein's, I could list others, just trying to show that a Theory no matter how accepted is not the same as a Scientific Law. Many widely accepted scientific theories have been proven wrong after years or even decades of acceptance.