The very fact that OBE proves (for us who experience it) that our vantage point is not always confined to the human body raises the question of what our true observation point might actually be.

well it is not confined to the brain---

If you do not think that parking spaces is important enough, how about the starving children around the world? If even one person prayed for all the starving children in the world to be fed do you think god would feed them? The bible claims that all children are innocent so they should not have to suffer the pain of starving to death but they do every day. So can god not help them or is the god really sadistic and like to watch suffering? There is also another theory, suggesting that there ever was a god who says god is still around? He may have gave up on this universe a long time ago and has moved on to a new ant farm to play with...

I have a large ant hill. The ants are my slaves. They provide a pile of gravel that I take away a bucket at a time and use it for my driveway. Eventually my driveway will be covered with a real nice layer of gravel. I feed the ants so they will keep working. I am their god.

The point that I was trying to make is unrelated to whether or not OBEs actually involve leaving the body. I was only suggesting that the phrase OBE does not assume that 'we' are 'inside' the body. It assumes only that the out of body perspective is rare enough to warrant a phrase characterized by the location of the point of view. The noun is 'experience', and 'out of body' is a phrase that acts as an adjective modifying the noun. What kind of experience? An 'out of body' one.

Most of our waking experiences, obviously, occur from a *perspective* within the body. In an OBE, your perspective on the experience is outside the body - hence the name.

I don't believe we have a 'true observation point'. We have senses, and we have the ability to have experiences (dreams, hallucinations, OBEs, and more) not limited by our senses.

Well it would sure be difficult enough to 'locate' and observation point that seems to keep moving and is not dependent on five senses.
I once popped out of my body and found my observation point in the sky above the clouds. It was so vivid and real I was certain that my entire body was up there and I was about to fall to my death. Then I realized it was an OBE. My observation point changed in a split second and then it was on the ground in the grass. Then the next instant I was back in my body.

This was not astral travel as it was instantaneousness, clear and vivid.

Enough with OBE! If anyone can really do it get in touch with James Randi and he'll pay you $1,000,000.00.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

BTW in over 20 years not a single person has been able to demonstrate any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event under proper observing conditions.

James Randi is a bunch of B.S.

"Proper observing conditions?"

I'm so sick of hearing people talk about James Randi and his stupid offer. He has an agenda and he has no intention of ever giving anyone any money.

That's what science does. It measures everything. Until you define what you are referring to when you say "God" your question is not clear. I say that God is everything. Science then, is all about measuring God.



This assumes that "God" (if he/It exists) is out there in the universe somewhere.





Prayer's are thoughts. You can certainly observe their effects. Scientist's are even working on reading minds, so I'm going to assume they can already 'measure' and detect thoughts.



First I'm a bit confused what your subject is about. Is it about God or Prayer?? Make up your mind.

I'm sick of hearing about BS psychic bologna. Put up or shut up.

Believe what you want, when you actually experience it, then and only then will you know. I have no need to prove squat to you. (Or jerks like Randi.)



P.S. so now your true agenda is clear.

You said:


You clearly want a debate.

But you still have to define what you mean by "GOD" before anyone can know what it is you actually want.

If prayer is the way to communicate with god we should be able to measure that energy transfer. If god hears and answers prayers (miracles) then we should that effect.

The question is a mote point if you don't believe in God. So why would you even ask?

Not everybody is equally closed-minded. Some people actively, openly explore possibilities that they don't currently 'believe' in.

True. But after he said this:

"I'm sick of hearing about BS psychic bologna. Put up or shut up."

It seems kind of obvious he is just asking people to put up or shut up.

I took that to be "with respect to the nature of OBE's", which is a different topic than prayer and God.

I didn't. If he would call OBE's "psychic bologna" there is no reason for me to assume or believe that he has any intention of even considering the existence of God or prayer. He's a pretender.


(Also he seems to be a fan of Randi, who is a rabid atheist.)

The basic premise of a god is extremely simplistic in nature. Its the same kind of single solution that lazy thinkers today use.

Think about it, marketers of miracle cures are super successful? Why?
Its a simple, single thing anyone can do, and its so compelling. I mean who wants to spend all this time figuring out what wrong with this incredible complex system when instead they can pretend to have the answer and its magic water? or god.


Nature is complex. Its hard to understand, but its rational, and can be understood.

The lazy minded cannot not have an answer, and they also do not desire the effort that is Science, so instead opt for the path of least resistance to the feeling of satisfaction that is achieved when one convinces themselves they know something.


God is the easy answer to why things are the way they are, the problem is that it doesn't really explain ANYTHING. Anyone who is honest knows this, and the honest people of the religious do not try, they always accept that there fate is not to know, in this way God as a concept is the enemy to knowledge, it allows the complexity of life to be disregarded and the person doing the disregarding to feel good about that.

Wasn't there a poll done recently where many scientists believe in a God? I thought I read that somewhere in the not so distant past. Just wondering.