Here I am.

Bravo! You are so better than me! My phone is company supplied but I am responsible enough to no rack up the minuets. I am financing the truck I am buying under the company I work for. I get my share out of the business I work for.

So you don't pay for your vehicle, "Your business does?" Good for you. You have your own business? YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE MY FRIEND! I am contract labor. On top of that I serve some prestigious clients. The rest of us own our own vehicles. Also you came off so self righteous I would have assumed you mastered walking on water.

Pushing my luck? Really? That isn't a threat is it? And suddenly you are an expert on my dysfunctional life? And you never made more than $47k? Awwwwwwwww, is this where I play my tiny violin, the one that only plays 'my heart bleeds for you?' You are comparing apples to oranges. I am working hard enough to try to push myself into financial stability but then again that also is a lie. How many people lost their nest eggs to shady investors or "legitimate" Mutual funds under banks? I do not intend to be one of these poor fools. I sure as hell am not sharing my success with some woman just becasue she is upping some pu@@y to me. That privilege has to be earned! If a woman is not part of my success she does not deserve equal shares in something she did not contribute to! And demanding right out the gate I be equally contributory to a living situation that is above my means when my income levels are not there is also BULLSHEET! Don't suck someone into something they cannot do themselves! She wants a BMW 6 series? The 4 series is not good enough? She can buy it herself or SHUT THE FUQUE UP! I am happy with my Toyota truck thank you.

You see you do not seem to understand that there is a balancing act and sacrifices made by men are down played way too much. And here you come taking the woman's side of things like the Knight in Shining Armor...

Looks like a suck up move to me.

Likewise, a man's worth is more than money he does contribute. Some men are worthless though, that I do understand but to have you come along and try to make me sound like I am looking for a free ride? You sure are wearing a mighty powerful set of rose colored prescription glasses. Does that make everyone you look at seem happy too? If so I want a set! Tell me where you bought them. Wal Mart maybe?

And that previous remark of yours, Shoveling snow... Not here in Southern California unless you live in the hills.

You are a great comedian. ever though of doing stand up?


Besides, I am so under paid you don't even know. The problem is that it is a competitive world and here in Los Angeles it is a lot more competitive than anywhere else in the USA except for New York! Nobody and I mean NOBODY is willing to pay me what I know I am worth so I work for myself as contract labor and 3/4s of the time I fix the shoddy work the competition does. My work lasts and I have jobs out there I did 15 and 20 years ago that I did that still functions perfectly where my competition usually doesn't even make it past two years before something goes wrong. Don't compare yourself to me. That is not possible. I am not saying I am better than you, all I am saying is that you got your opinions like I do and you seem to be under some impression you are better than me.

Please...

I have been walked on by women trying to save money so much I should have changed my middle name to welcome. Instead I gained an attitude problem and that has dealt with women who think pretending to be nice to me can get cut rate work out of me. I am way too busy for the BS any more. I am separating my work from my life and it is thought since the last few years have been a struggling act just to keep up. I love how a woman will say "lets go out when you are done," only to never return my phone calls when they got their cars back and other BS I have done for them at half the cost of a shop. I do not need Ghetto Trash like that in my life.

I like how so many odd tangents can come of these topics!

So are we going to get into a pecker waving contest too?

Am I being uncivil? Well now I am being a little belligerent but I get that way when people get belligerent with me.

Sorry every one. Low threshold for BS these days!

"I have been walked on by women trying to save money so much I should have changed my middle name to welcome. Instead I gained an attitude problem and that has dealt with women who think pretending to be nice to me can get cut rate work out of me."


For this reason, we should be exposed to your incessant diatribe? Your continued belligerence? Your aggressive posture of wanting to beating people up and stealing their money? it's childish, unnecessarily violent, annoying and down right irritating!
I'm embarrassed by you and your ill thoughts towards others... Rich or poor, man or woman, you offer the same venom.

PBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTttttt....



And I thought I was not going to have anything to laugh at tonight.



You are a comedian.

And a suck up.

And I am not impressed.

And also this "I know you are but what am I," cyclical argument gains or proves nothing.

And I would pity your shallowness but frankly I am all out of pity.

I embarrass you how exactly?

I love your passive aggressive attacks. Shows how people can take a simple discussion and try to make it an emotional event.

And this is not me being condescending. I can be very condescending when I want. Not tonight. I am in a good mood!

You are relying on your personal experience, which is just YOUR experience. My experience runs contrary, and my experience is just as valid as yours. I have not seen men "dragged" into being "house husbands." Even if those situations exist, men have the ability to just say "no," don't they? Or are the so *****-whipped that they can't refuse?

I have, however, seen men take on responsibilities of child rearing or taking primary care for housekeeping BECAUSE they wanted to do so. However, these men are far in the minority and, again, the main responsibility of caring for kids and the house rest on the woman.

You also introduced aspects that were not in your first post about a man slaving away to put an engine in a car and not being appreciated because he isn't making his half of the rent. If circumstances exist where a man can't get a job making decent wages, that is one thing; with the recession, it is understandable, but that wasn't overtly stated in your complaint.

Why is role reversal a *****? If that is true, then NO woman has ever been happy or fulfilled in not working outside the home. If a man doesn't feel happy or fulfilled in doing so, he should leave the marriage. Ditto for a woman who works and resents it.

I am single at present, but I am dating a man who makes ten times as much money as I do. If we live together (I can't see marrying), I will continue to work. And to your sarcastic question, I welcome the new millennium and equality. I saw my mother and too many other women of her--and my--generation suffer because of inequality.

If women want to stay home and not work, they need to marry a like-minded man: if a man thinks it is his role to work, then let him find a women who thinks the same. Both types still exist.

Simple, eh?

the qualities i seek in a man , a successfull man, have nothibng to do with the almighty dollar

success can mean different things to different people

Actually no, I am drawing from a number of other's personal experiences as well as my own. I am the one person people seem to come to to solve problems. Half the time my advice is not what they want to hear. One of my friends actually did get stuck not only doing the car work for their house he got stuck coming up with the parts money too. His wife at the time demanded he do everything he could to save the POS car she owned even though the damn thing deserved to go to the junk yard becasue she had sentiments attached to a worthless POS car. Worst was when he had the kids they had dumped in his lap becasue she was not paying for day care any more. He had to quit his job to make her happy. Then things got worst for him to the point he left his home, and filed for divorce and moved out of country promptly to get away from her and her lawyers (PLURAL!). She literally drove him into the dirt and now a friend of mine lives in Brazil where she cant touch him and he is remarried to a woman ten times hotter than him and half his age and they are very happy together.

Likewise I also advised a woman I knew to leave her Boy Friend at the time because he was one of those guys who treated her like crap and also asked her for money all the time. She noticed the only time he said he loved her was when he needed something from her, when he got it she got dumped on. Guess who helped throw his azz out of her house and I am not family or a BF past, present, or future. There is nothing simple about anything pertaining to relationships no matter how easy you, me, or anyone wants it to appear.

One of my friends actually got dumped when he lost his job. She dumped him three days after he got his pink slip but that also was the day he started a new job that didn't pay quite as much but had much better benefits. A month later when she got wind of the health and medical his job landed him she wanted back. Thankfully he got his fingers burned just hard enough to not take the self serving BIITCH back.

Likewise another friend of mine managed to get a promotion so her husband took that as a sign he could quit his job and begin to drink all day long. He was "Such the man," he actually told her to her face if she divorced him he would take her for half. My advice was Lawyer up and divorce his azz promptly but she took it one step further. She got a private investigator to follow him and log his daily routine. On top of that the man she hired (a professional PI mind you) met him in the bar he frequented and recorded their conversations (and when told he was being recorded he flatly said he didn't care what was being recorded. Drunk and stupid is not a way to go through life.). Between the lawyer and the PI her now EX got nothing but a scolding by the judge and ordered to pay for the court costs and attorney fees for attempting to use the system to unlawfully screw his ex wife. What was even funnier was his hidden drug abuse was chronicled. That led to a whole different set of problems for him since the PI she hired had enough evidence to have the man answering questions to the police. That was one time Karma was served cold!

Don't think for a second I am taking any sides per say. I just hate Hypocrisy in any form. I am not trying to come off like God's answer to everything but there is FAR too much BS in life to put up with it any more in silence.

Most of humanity has some pretty fuqued up values and some pretty fuqued up ways of labeling everything around us.

What is worst is being made to feel like I am culpable for my father's sins when I didn't commit them. The things some people say touch all the wrong chords in me. Same with people's actions.

Now you go on to mention the whole equality issue I have, let me put this into perspective here, My Grandmother on my Father's side of the family was a Lowell Girl. the reason she did not get killed with the others was she was home sick and her family refused to let her go to work. She told me stories about how Italians were treated in New York back in the day. Back then Irish and Italians were lower than Negros on the sale of humanity. They were slaves AFTER the Blacks were freed in this country!

My problem is that the oppressed become the oppressors. Likewise I feel there is way too much overcompensation on both sides and this is just screwing everything up.

Hell, I dated a girl for a while who loved the high life but I could not afford her way of living. She got pissed off at me for not going to Mexico with her on a week I had worked scheduled. I didn't have he money or time to take off. I was just supposed to drop everything for her. I was not living under her roof. I had bills to pay she was not paying for me. She acted like she owned me and expected me to fawn over her 24/7. That relationship lasted two months and I wised up and told her no more. She said some shIIt in front of everyone I knew that was worst than hurtful and made my hand come up. I was going to pimp slap her so hard I was going to knock out teeth but I did the one thing everyone didn't count on. I took a deep breath, put my hand down, told her to her face to go fuque herself and told her I was leaving her with her baiting me to hit her. Yeah she had a new BF the day after I told her it was over. And she got Herpes from him, HA HA HA HA HA HA! Now that had to be love to want to share someone's diseases!

I have lived in the shadow of nothing but dysfunction. I see it all around me, hell I have to wonder how much of the stuff on Jerry Springer was fake vs. real? I just wish I could get it to stop but I cannot do that any more than I can make water run uphill!

All I can say is for those people who get it right...

this toast is for you!

andy i know where your comming from as it turns out ironicaly the youbg lady i have just met thinks im a hard working driven man. i earn 1 fith of the wage she earns i feel the gold digger but then she kept that hidden till she knew i loved her for her.

as for kids and looking after the home i already have a daughter from another relationship and if my lady asked for us to have a family i would quit my job to look after them without thinking. Why because i have worked 7 day weeks for pittence and hardly seen my child before custody reared its ugly head and when you havent seen your child in 2 months and counting you notice the finer things in life are family moments. also i may be the better cook so that may work out better on that front lol.
But i still feel uncomfortable about not being the main bread winner then again that was how i was rased and thats how i feel but for her i would change anything just to see her smile and relax so i think what im getting at is yes asking for a sucsessful man/woman is wrong but a driven man/woman is a different story entirely im driven but not sucsessful so where does that leave me?

And you my friend have more spine than 9/10ths of American Manhood. The fact you are bothered by having to do what is right vs. what you have been conditioned to believe is saying a lot more than others who fall back on their "good fortune" and can make money and live rather care free becasue their lives are "rest assured." All men are supposed to be #1 in the house but when the man has to fall into unconventional ways so that the income of the house remains in the black rather than trying to live a higher lifestyle to appease the woman (OR MAN SO YOU ALL KNOW I SEE THIS AS A TO WAY ISSUE!) but wind up perpetually living in the red this is not functional. If not having a house keeper, child day care, and a litany of other household services saves the house money and it is in the black well then, I see that as functionality ESPECIALLY WHEN BUSINESS IS BEING TAKEN CARE OF.

frankly success changes in our lives. I have seen how messed up "rich" people can be. Frankly being rich and unhappy is FAR worst than being poverty stricken and happy. Frankly I have seen far too many people be on top one day only to fall the next. I would not want to be in Axel Rose's shoes. He was such a little dick who had everything handed to him when he was #1 but now he is some weird little angry troll who hides in his hermit cave in Malibu living a life of a disillusioned celebrity.

Hell, Brittany Spears, another waste of flesh! She had everything handed to her. What does she do with it all? Lived a life of self fulfilling indulgence. As she got older she got the reverse of smarter. She has lost all her children in custody battles and hasn't gotten it in her head you cannot go through life as a vapid blond party girl all your life. And where is she these days? Not exactly in the same limelight she was in when she was younger aye? Between her and J'Lo though J'Lo really has talent. A lot more than Brittany. She does have the heart of a performer BUUUUUT not all is good in happy land there either! J'Lo is also another person I would not like to meet. She looks down her nose on everybody who does not have her income. Her panted remark is "You are stupid to be so poor," to servants and Hired help. No, they are stupid to be working for her. All that money and she is such a cold hearted biitch. How many times has she been married so far?

I got to meet Tina turner very briefly years ago. She was having a house in Monterrey remodeled. Nicest celebrity you ever met. I mean seriously, she was just that nice. Celebrity gets to people's heads they start thinking they are better than the rest of "Us" and perpetuates a vicious cycle that ripples by example to others. A few real down to earth people who make it big actually are very respectful of others. They know that it is their fans who made them wealthy. But back to the main point of this topic...

The way people are conditioned these days is so hypocritical. Now frankly I have abstained from having kids purely for the financial reason! I do not want to bear a responsibility that would crush me at my current income levels. I do not want to be stuck being the house husband myself. If I had to it would be for the family. There in lies the greatest moral dilemma here is the erosion of the nuclear family unit.

I will say men and women alike have taken advantage of the moral commitment And rode on the backs of their spouses. People think work is free. Nothing in life is free!

And for the others like I have said before, if your man wants to leave a butt rut in the couch but he pays all the bills you got no reason to gripe at all about anything. If all he wants to do is leave a butt rut in the couch, drink beer all day (or anything else similar, 4:20 all day long, etc.) and complain he can't find work, why your foot print is not in his azz yet as you send him out the door surprises me. I have seen a couple of honest cases where men have lost VERY high paying jobs and they were SO specialized in their training finding work in their field was impossible for a very long time. They had to transition to another field to get decent employment. One man his wife actually understood as her husband hunted for 11 months in his area of training before he managed to find an opening that paid half of what he earned before. He was thrilled to have work again. The other man was not so fortunate. He had to get retrained to accept a job but the training took 18 months. He went back to school but his wife hen pecked him so bad he lost it and almost pulled the plug on himself with a gun in his drive way. It was friends of his that stumbled on him and talked him down. She was all about how it was "people are talking about us" BS about his situation. He was trying hard working part time flipping burgers just to keep money coming in but his class load was full time and for those of us who were in college the Homework can be atrocious and VERY time consuming!!! If a man is fighting the good fight but never seems to have anything to show for it is he any less than a man who has everything go his way? Now when I say I see a distinct problem with values as we understand them I see a lot of Hypocrisy.

I am still likewise reaching for that gold ring that just seems to be right at our fingertips sometimes and others a mile away. You pull your weight. You do what you can with what you got.

I call that respectable if anything!


Oddly isn't the line "All Men Are Created Equal," likewise a lie? If I was equally why do I need to wear glasses to see clearly further than a foot?

U r rite, .but d0nt be paran0id. .w0rd successful r n0t only means rich? ' . .

Let me qualify "personal experience": that is experience you have gained from your own experience, but also the experiences of people whom you know.

It means that you are not a professional researcher who has spent years doing studies and surveys.

I could list MY experiences, but that is only what they would be: limited, but contrary to yours.




You aren't responsible for your father's sins, but dude, you have a chip on your shoulder so large that I can see it from here. You are so defensive that you go on the offensive.

When people "say things," you ALLOW, perhaps even welcome, those things to irritate your chords. No one is responsible for you how you feel but YOU.



I am not familiar with "Lowell" girls, so that means nothing to me, but I am not sure in which perspective you are trying to place "equality."



It isn't YOUR problem: it is everyone's problem.




Cry me a river: you are not the only one who can state that. At some point, we either grow up and deal with our pasts, or we continue to let the past rule us.

You seem to be in the latter segment.

AYE CARUMBA!

Actually I do have a very analytical side and I do a lot of observation. Frankly by raw statistics alone I could show overwhelming proportions of functional vs, dysfunctional people by a very generalized yardstick and also a host of very narrow measures. When I see Jerry Springer stuff LIVE I got to wonder.

Chip on my shoulder, baby I used to have a freaken LOG on my shoulder. I was hoping to have it down to a wood shaving by this year! Frankly the only wood I want on me right now would not be on my shoulder! M-O, M-O-R, M-O-R-N-I-N-G, W-O-O-D, TO THE Nth DEGREE!

Now granted This may seem childish but I am getting a deeper insight to how people think differently about a given social ideal. I am seeing how conditioned people are to thinking.

Also I am surprised you have not looked up Lowell Girl. Look up Triangle Shirt Factory Fire. Just a tasty tidbit of man's compassion to his fellow man or woman and American history.

Now another thing to me since I am also very double analytical is gauging responses of others vs. mine. Oddly I was just out for a discussion no the topic but some people get very defensive. And here I thought I was the naughty one!

I am slipping...

Need more work!

I already have moved on in my life. That is why I am trying to do something with my life. it is clear to me that I am in this mess alone for now. Tough, yes, Unfair, could care less really. The game is messed up, the rules are arbitrary, and there is no clear winner in it. Just a lot of messed up contestants.

LMAO, I cant even quote all the things that you have allsaid to make me laugh...
I guess for everyone who gets annoyed at andy's post dont read it if you dont like it. I love reading them he cracks me up.

Basically all andy is saying is that women are manipulative, and we are, some worse than others, whether it is in little things or big, Of course we know how to work our bodies and minds to get what we want, men do it as well.

We use ourselves to make our men love us, whether it is with our personalities or our bodies, we use them to get what ever we most desire, for some its love for others its money.

Men use what they have on us, some men fluant their money, muscles or personalities to get us to like them. Everybody does it to some degree and anyone who says they do not use something about themselves would have to be lying. In our cultures we are taught it from childhood.

I guess it just takes years to work our way through the rubbish and see what each of us wants, I want love and honestly..
Andy wants someone to love him and not to use him up finacially is there anything wrong with him stating that however he wishes on his post.

Go for it Andy you have given me heaps of amusement with your comments on here

..well i guess i've saved myself alot of speculation merely by looking at the pictures and disregarding the profiles,personally i don't think alot of people put a whole lot of time in thinking out

their profile ..most will tell ya "i really don't know how to describe myself"..but if one were to see "looking for a successful man" i suppose one would have to know that person in order to figure out whether they too are sucessful looking for the same or just a mere gold digger.

..obviously may take more time to make a closer scrutiny of the person who is writing the profile in order to come to an honest conclusion rather than speculation. i suppose this too could fall under don't judge a book by it's cover...page..but eh..what do i know...

I also enjoy reading andy's post. No woman wants to be taken advantage of & neither do most men. The man's got an idea on what he wants out of life & he states how he feels. Plus, just a little bit he likes to get people ruffled for amusement purposes only!!

At the expense of inserting logic here, how would one know if he/she were offended if he/she didn't read the post?



Isn't that what most people want? And he is free to state anything that he wishes in his posts, but by the same token, others are free to dispute what he says, eh?



The question of functional vs dysfunctional was not the question! The topic is women seeking successful men. Jerry Springer is not a valid source.



I suppose this is directed at me. Defensive is a misnomer: it is more of pointing out fallacies when I see them.

As for the Triangle Factory fire, as a serious student of history, I don't need to read an article to be aware of inhumane treatment of humans. Although it is further back in time, I have extensively studied the persecution of people (mainly women) as witches, the stamping out of heretics, genocide, and slavery. I can log into Yayhoo and read about such matters.

My best friend from childhood was shot to death by her druggie boyfriend in front of their three year old daughter and another child. It marked her family for the rest of their lives. The daughter is still alive, though I haven't seen her in years; I would wager she still dreams about it.

I have not escaped unscathed by things in my life, but I move forward, not back.

Now Gwendolyn, you said you are a serious student of history?

History has always been a passion of mine. Now in American History the triangle Shirt Factory Fire was HUGE becasue women were chained by their ankles and forced to stay two weeks at a time chained to a sewing machine. Most of the women were Italian with a few Irish and a hand full of Jews tossed together. Even back then Jews were treated like second class people. The workers HAD to get permission to go to the bathroom. What history does not remember was that fire gave birth to the Italian mafia who forced money out of the owners eventually by force. the justice system back then did not do anything for poor people OR WOMEN. Back then there was no such thing as Rape laws. This was a major turning point in history when equality took a savage battering becasue of one little factory fire. Sadly this overshadowed the unfair treatment a lot of Chinese Migrants suffered here unjustly as well. They frankly were treated like total crap and worked HARD. Hell, black slaves were worth more than Chinese Workers! That also was the era of the Child Coal miners. That is a whole different story of abuse and exploitation.

These days people have things WAY too easy. Our whole social nature is ungodly complicated. It is a lot harder to find someone who is really and truly compatible in all ways rather than settling for and compromising for someone who is less than perfect but then again in settling for something less than perfect can be a case of going where fools even fear to tread. That hunky and charming broke man could also be a manipulative loser who relies on looks and manipulation to get through life on the backs of women. They are out there. If it looks good but serves no purpose then it is useless! That goes for men and women alike.

No I am not picking on you. If I was I could say things that would dig into your soul and really tear you up inside. That is not my way or style. I just love a good argument! Friends can still disagree!

Now everybody! It is good to know I bring entertainment value here. It is also good to know people here do use their brains for more than a door stop! Keep on Thinking freely!


Oh, and as far as Jerry Springer goes... I know some of his stuff was scripted BUT what were those scripts based on???? I mean come on, how many transgender whatsits think they can become involved with a man and when the truth comes out expect them to not be surprised? AND PISSED OFF??? What surprises me more was that not one time did a woman come on the show to say to her significant other that she was cheating and then have Jerry's crew bring out a huge Great Dane! I think that would have put Jerry on an all time high of being low! Talk about shock TV! Now trust me when I say I have seen some sick perverted things in my time. I knew real TRISEXUALS who swung harder than a cage full of angry chimpanzees. They were very happy with their lives and admitted to raiding the barnyard themselves. Now digressing to the self interest part of life.

Now granted facing compatibility issues outside of money how long would a relationship with a Trisexual go with a person who is perfectly monogamous and heterosexual? My answer, like oil and water. They just don't mix! You can with an emulsifier but money cannot smooth over misery for long. the Tri will resent the Monogamous eventually and both will feel trapped in a paradox. That is when we see the shIIt that appears on Jerry!


And now for all of you my Pagan faithful, dawn your goat fur leggings, gather up your party favors, and remember,

EVER FOREWORD!





At least Jerry Had class unlike this douche!



I would have smacked him in the face with a chair too!

Successful to me means, Driven, Goal oriented, & knows what they want for their future..Not the $$$$.. Come on guys we are not all gold diggers, & success doesnt mean we are looking for your bank account.

Woe i am even getting as history lesson now, not bad as far as entertainment goes.