Spirits or Ghosts have been witnessed (or claim to be) by many individuals around the world. Some have used it as means to bring profits to their pockets and others actually believe they can witness or even contact such supernatural beings. Is it just a strong case of imagination or is it a actual reality? I would say that half of the world doesn't believe in it and the other half does...give or take either way 10 to 20%! It is a stalemate question that in the end only allows personal opinions to conquer the threads leading to disapproval or approval ratings.

You guys don't change, do you? You can't win the intellectual argument, so you make up silly excuses. I still think this thread is as anti-intellectual as I have seen. To open a debate on religion and spirituality, but deny access to the most influential and published book in human history? Definitely anti-intellectual and actually quite bigoted.

Cowboy denied preaching for Jesus more times than Peter denied knowing Jesus ....but this time he can't claim that he wasn't preaching and following Jesus's command to spread the word to all nations and to the Mingle2 chat forum

It would have been pretty cool if he tried to weasal out of it by claiming that Jesus full filled the laws of Moses and therefore the Old Testament is no longer The Bible

perhaps anti-intellectual or "stagnation of thought" was the direction the thread was going pertaining to the religious ...the thread is showing how no one can talk about their religious beliefs without either referring to the bible or including everyone else into their fantasy delusion

FOR EXAMPLE:
you won't hear anyone claim that they are solely a spirit but you will hear someone claim that we are all spirits...because if you don't include everyone else into your belief or base it on some religious context you will sound delusional

This is an example how a conversation would go without using any reference to a bible or any faith based options

I'm a spirit
why do you believe that you are a spirit
because I feel beautiful like I can float
I meant why do you believe this
because ...er.... hummmmm....er....the voices?

The Bible and other religous scriptures provides a Free Pass out of The Asylum


.

Lets reduce that statement to its lowest common denominator.

I am a free spirit.

I am a spirit.

I am...

but why do you believe that you are a spirit and not a human

I'm not preaching nor did I use any bible references. I mentioned the old testament for a brief moment, yes. But I didn't not pull out any verses. All our knowledge we have comes from one source or another, weather it's spiritual or other, it all comes from some form of source. Again, not preaching, merely discussing my spiritual beliefs on the discussion at hand.

I don't know what "intellectual argument" you are referring to.

Unfortunately, many of the people in these forums prefer their imaginations to the collected wisdom of thousands of years. If you said something silly like: "Panda bears are the decendants of aliens who came to earth thousands of years ago and have been inbreeding ever since", you wouldn't get so much as a snicker, but rather probing questions and interest in the origins and support for your statement, but mention God or Jesus and they get their panties in a bunch. It's really quite amusing.

Well, historically speaking the book you are talking about has been the cause of more ignorance and violence than any other book published in history. So being the "most influential", is not impressive. Especially considering that the only reason that it became the "most influential" and "most published" book is because for most of history is was shoved down the throats of the masses. Either accept this book as the "Holy word of God", or off with your head! And even in cases where death was not the threat, social rejection would be the threat. In fact, many followers of Christianity today still make every attempt to imply that anyone who refuses to suck up to this religion is a "fool" who is "rejecting God".

So with that kind of violent and derogatory propaganda it's no wonder that it has become the "most influential" scam that humanity ever created. Besides, had Adolf Hitler won his war, he would then be the most influential man in history. Would that somehow give his ideals credence? I don't think so.

Finally, we can know without the slightest shadow of a doubt that these fables are indeed false. There are countless examples of why the Old Testament has to be false. There are also countless examples of why the New Testament has to be false.

But I personally feel that the following is the single most profound example of this.

These fables claim that the "Father" (i.e. their God) judgeth no man, and that all judgment has been committed to the "Son" which they hold to be Jesus as "The Christ".

But then later in these very same fables they have Jesus being crucified and crying out, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Well duh? That can only imply one of two things. Either Jesus himself (this supposed "Christ"), didn't even understand that the Father judgeth no one and that all judgments are his to make. Or the original claim was bogus to begin with.

Take your choice. Either conclusion proves that the these fables are at least fallible and contain gross errors. Therefore they cannot be trusted to be the "correct" word or thoughts of any God.

In short we basically have proof positive that these fables cannot have any more merit than the Greek fables of Zeus and company.

So here we are with absolute PROOF that these fables are confused and undependable at "best", and outright fables at worst.

In fact, we can even go forward and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are indeed fables. Because these fables also have this very same Jesus saying that these scriptures cannot be broken wet we see this very same fictional character breaking these scriptures himself later in the story by creating a situation where they cannot all be simultaneously true.

So there is really no reason for anyone to support these myths as though they have any merit at all. They are every bit as broken as Greek Mythology.

So what we need to do today is to educate people to this truth, instead of continually supporting the lies by using superficial reasoning like "Well gee, it's the most influential book in history and has been the most published book too. It must be true!"

No. That's totally bogus reasoning. Just because something had been spread at sword-point and via threats of bodily injury or social rejection to non-believers and blasphemers does not in any way imply that it has any merit whatsoever.

That just a totally bogus argument.

They book is self-contradicting and is clearly as false as Greek Mythology. Put it on the shelf marked "fiction" and move on to better things.

Jeanniebean replied:

I don't know what "intellectual argument" you are referring to.


That's true too. I have never in my entire life heard an "intellectual argument" that supports the outrageous claim that are made in the Bible.

For example,


Collected wisdom?

That's a highly subjective view isn't it?

I personally don't see where the superstitious idea of a male-chauvinistic jealous Godhead who can be appeased by blood sacrifices in any way represents "Wisdom".

I personally don't see where a supposedly all-wise all-powerful God having his son crucified so that he can forgive people of their sins represents "Wisdom".

On the contrary, I don't see any "wisdom" in these superstitions at all.

If you want to speak about "wisdom" I would point to the wisdom of the Easter Mystics which is both far older and far wiser than these Zeus-like fable the Hebrews made up.

You are also being dishonest in your comparison.

You say, "many of the people in these forums prefer their imaginations to the collected wisdom of thousands of years"

That's a false and misleading statement in the first place. You're not recognizing other ancient sources of wisdom. Not to mention modern sources of wisdom such as scientific knowledge.

Where did you ever get it in your head that "ancient wisdom" should somehow trump "modern wisdom"? I would think it should be precisely the opposite. As humanity grows and learns we understand the world far better than we did before. So our modern wisdom should be far more dependable than ancient so-called "wisdom".

In a very real sense we are actually the "elders". We, as humans, are actually far "older" than those humans that lived before us. Because we have come a very long way since that time.

So your stance is that an older wiser person should basically accept the superstitious believes of a young unwise child. But that would be the comparison here. Those ancient civilizations were like young unwise children still believing in the boogieman and Santa Claus.

But now we have lived far longer and have acquired information that shows us that what we used to think of as "superstitious boogiemen" (or demonic spirits) were actually just the laws of nature. Lightening, earthquakes, tsunamis, disease, and mental health issues.

Back then they thought all that stuff was caused by "demons".

They even had Jesus casting "demons" out of people's bodies.

He even case SEVEN demons out of Mary Magdalene. Seven? Why Seven? Well, in this religion Seven is a very superstitious NUMBER!

Poor Mary, she must have been in pretty bad shape to have been possessed by seven demons!

So Spider, you're suggesting that all rational intelligent people today should be accepting that Mary Magdalene was possessed by seven demons and some demigod cast them all out of her?

Surely if Mary Magdalene was possessed by seven demons, then this must be a pretty common predicament for people.

So should we believe that people today are still possessed with multiple demons and are in need of an exorcist?

Is this the kind of "wisdom" you expect intellectual people to consider?

Like I say, I haven't heard a truly "intellectual argument" for these fables YET.

sorry Cowboy but if you only mention "The Old Testament" for a brief moment then why do I still see it mention in your post ...perhaps you should send an e-mail to the Gods of Mingle2 and ask them to delete it...or perhaps you should grow a pair and take responsibility for what you posted

face it...you got busted preaching

Wasn't preaching, nor did I make any specific referance to anything in the bible. Just briefly mentioned the old testament. And no need for insults Funches, you can keep your statements such as "perhaps you should grow a pair..." and "you got busted preaching". No need for that form of conversation. And again, I did no "preaching" so please keep the lies to yourself and we can all get along :D.

lowest common denominator...

I am.

I am spirit.

I am also human.

I am also me.

but at the base of it all.

I am.

Cowboy you already stated that you mention The Old Testament ...my plan was to get you to mention either The Old Testament or The New Testament or the Bible in General to show that all you do is preach ...and you fell for it .....

you got bamboozled...you got hoodwinked...you got hornswoggled ...so move on

oh so now you realized that you're also Human

so are you a human that's posessed by a spirit

Nope...

I am a spirit...

Gifted by god with a moment in reality.

I got nothing, so just briefly mentioning a book is preaching? Wow a lot of people preach I guess, cause a lot of people mention books time to time through their days.

I AM too!

YEP!

You got it, Adventurebegins.