see...you have such a hatred for the way you are that you deny your own flesh ....and because of your belief about flesh it cause you to spread this hate to others

My flesh is not the way I am. This flesh is merely a containment till my saviour returns to relieve me of it. My flesh has nothing to do with who I am.

nope..remember you said that you can discuss your belief without any reference to religous scripture ..even so your saviour is telling you that you in the flesh is worthless and that is still a sign that he hates what you are and have convince you to hate yourself which is probably why you pick such a savior

but anyway .....can you tell why hating your flesh is not a sign of self hatred ...or just admit that you don't know why you hate your flesh

so wouldn't that mean that you don't take care of your flesh..like take baths and stuff?

I believe God is a spirit and we all are a part of God. Made in God's image. Thus, we are spirits also, but in a fleshly body at the moment. So, since I believe God is the beginning and the end and God is spirit, then spirit was created first since that which is the Alpha is spirit in essence.

1. I did not use any bible verse references.
2. No one said anyone was worthless
3. No one said anyone hates anyone or even the flesh in general
4. No one said they hate themselves

Can you please tell me where you got that from what I said? No one said anything about hatred or being worthless.

How do you get that from what I said? Who you are doesn't have anything to do with your flesh. Someone can have their skin bleached, does this change who they are? Someone can get tattoos changing the color of their skin, does that change who they are? No, only changes their appearance, doesn't necessarily change WHO they are.

Well, you did say the following"

"This flesh is merely a containment till my saviour returns to relieve me of it."

So let's look at your claims:

1. I did not use any bible verse references.

Where have you gotten the idea that you need a "savior"?

If not from the bible or religions that teach from the bible? Can you say where you got this idea from?

2. No one said anyone was worthless
3. No one said anyone hates anyone or even the flesh in general
4. No one said they hate themselves

All of these are basically related

You had stated: "This flesh is merely a containment till my saviour returns to relieve me of it."

To relieve you of it, implies that it is a burden for you, and that you don't like it (i.e. you hate it), and fell a need to be relieved of it.

So you have at least implied #3 for sure. You seem to dislike the flesh in general if you are seeking to be 'relieved' of it by a 'savior'. That certainly implies that the flesh is rather 'worthless' if you need to be 'relieved' of it.

You may not hate yourself, but you do seem to be totally unhappy with your current predicament if you feel a need to be 'relieved' of it. If you're not happy with what you are, then you certainly can't say that you 'love' what you are. And if you don't 'love' what you are, then perhaps you 'hate' what you are?

Why would you want to be 'relieved' of what you are if you don't hate it?

I think that the flesh is a holographic projection or avatar used by the real self which is a spiritual being having a physical experience.

This reality is constructed much like we construct dreams and it is within a universal mind which is like an organic computer generated virtual reality. Like a giant holodeck.

We are basically playing a game and we are wired into this virtually reality through what are called "life streams." Your body is connected to your real self with what is called the "golden cord." When you leave this world, that golden cord is cut and your holographic body dies as it no longer can receive the life stream.

Cowboy said:


I don't know where you are getting these ideas Cowboy but that kind of thinking can lead to serious sexual hangups.

Do you think that physical pleasure is sinful? Being satisfied is sinful? Being happy is wrong? Feeling good is somehow wrong?

but it is still a fact that I did not state a specific verse, I did not state something along the lines John 3:16 XXXXX and so forth. This is the no bible allowed thread. You have absolutely no idea if I got what I said from the bible or not. Yes it may or may not have said things along the lines of what I said. But you have no idea if I got MY specific knowledge of that specific thing from the bible.



Does not imply that. I've notice the things you see as being "implied" are quite hateful my friend. I'm sorry you see things in such a hateful way. This flesh is not permanent, this flesh is merely temporary, eg., relieve me of it. And in my spiritual views, where I have faith in going after I am relieved of this flesh is a whole lot greater then how it is here and now.



Again, why do you see things of what people say so hateful and negative? Who said I don't love what I am? Did I say that I don't? No I do not believe so. That is only seen through what you ASSUME. In a discussion there is no room for assuming my friend, you only know what is put there. You can assume all you wish, but that doesn't mean what you assume is correct. So please stick to what is exactly being said, otherwise we'll end up way in left field as you have lead us here.

Yes purely physical pleasure is sinful, no being "satisfied" is no sinful, and no definitely being happy is not wrong.

There is a totally huge difference between "sex" and "making love". Yes they are commonly used for the same thing, but they are in fact two totally different things.

Sex = Pleases physically, pleases the here and now.
Making love = Pleases emotionally, spiritually, and lasts a life time.

Sex = Is done with someone you may or may not have emotions for and or don't love that person. You may like them, enjoy their company, but you don't love someone you have "sex" with. You might as well be having sex with a hooker, that's about as far as the emotion between the two goes in having "sex".

Making love = Is done with someone you hold great emotions for. It is an act done to not only make the person feel emotionally satisfied with you, but also physically. With the combination of emotionally satisfied and physically satisfied it is greatly multiplied in it's satisfaction. And it doesn't end that night. Those emotional feelings continue on possibly for a life time.

And much more in between the difference, could go on for hours upon things such as child baring, making a family, and so on. That is what "sexual intercourse" is for. It is for building a family, there is no greater feeling then making a loving family. Sexual intercourse/making love isn't about YOU, it is about your spouse, a family, and the future.

Thomas3474 said:



If Christianity itself was more understanding (or tolerant) of other religions they would not create so much resistance.

People who disagree with the doctrines of Christianity probably have good reasons for doing so. There are people who have been hurt by their exposure to certain Christian doctrines.

I don't see a lot of "degrading and slandering" of any other religions, albeit the Muslims are catching up fast.

The point is, to remove or threaten to remove the general religion forum category for the reason you posted seems a bit bias towards protecting Christianity at the expense of the honest expression of opinions about a doctrine. (not a person.)

People with interesting points of view about non-Christian spirituality have a very hard time starting any thread that does not degenerate into hurt feelings and Christian doctrines being preached and criticized.

I don't know what the solution would be, but to eliminate the topic is probably not going to solve the problem. People should just tread with care and realize that other people have different points of view and let it be. Allow people to speak, allow people to believe what they want, allow people to be who they are.

Law of allowance.

Well good luck to you in your quest to live that way.

May the force be with you.

You did the discrimination right there in your post. Why is it seen as "preaching" when a Christian discusses their beliefs and is seen as negative in the "general religion chat" forum, but yet it isn't seen as "preaching" when another belief states their religious beliefs?

The Christians are doing no more then what the other's are doing, but it turns to offensive remarks when people post comments such as you did right here. You state the Christians are preaching, but yet I never see any other belief said to being "preached" in this forum.

NO ONE'S preaching. Merely stating their spiritual beliefs just as EVERY other belief does in this forum. Again, no one's preaching, just merely expressing their beliefs. And when it comes to the Christian faith it is segregated and said to be preaching.

Thank you, but truly has nothing to do with "luck". Only self control and abstinence from the corrupt form of sexual activity, eg., sex for the pleasure ect ect. It all boils down to again, one's self control.

We have been over all of that before many times.

I made a simple non-offensive statement above, and I'm not accusing anyone of anything. It is a general statement.

I know the difference between "preaching" and "having a discussion" and I reserve the right to make that determination. I have seen both and I know the difference.



Not all Christians "preach." Just some of them do. (You apparently still can't see the difference and you apparently are still whining about being "offended" and trying to control how people perceive things.)

Besides, I was not even responding to one of your posts. But if you don't like what I have to say then just don't read my posts.



It is not the Christian faith that is segregated and said to be preaching it is HOW they state their beliefs as if they were facts and as if everyone else is wrong. Then they do not listen or even consider any other point of view. That is preaching. Not all Christians do that.

Learn the difference and quit whining.

you referred to a savior



you said that your flesh is sinful



you said "This flesh is merely a containment till your saviour returns to relieve you of it."



thinking your flesh as being sinful is self hatred



read above

If you put too much attention on what you are not supposed to do where sex (or anything) is concerned, you could become obsessed with it and you will probably NOT be very successful using "self control."

Its best just to not think about it if you want to be successful.

This was my statement about the difficulty I have had personally starting a discussion about spiritual matters and beliefs that were not meant to degenerate into an argument with Christians who disagreed.

It was not about Christianity but it was interrupted by Christians who began preaching their doctrines and posting scripture. This happened more than a year ago on this club and was one of the reasons I left mingle for a long time.

Not all Christians preach, and in fact I have had real conversations with them. But some of them don't listen, they just preach. I know the difference.