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| Topic: Does god have faith in YOU? | |
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Cowboy wrote:
There's no proof any of these things will go through the way they are suppose to, this is all possible. So why not give our father the possibility? Why have more faith in earthly things then heavenly things? I have more faith in God than you can't even begin to comprehend. And like Adventure Begins, the God I have faith in is so much grander than the God you've created that I wouldn't even begin to expect you to comprehend it. You worship a book. You push a book. You're a book salesman. God is so far above those ancient Hebrews that you worship that until you get your mind out of their book you'll never even be able to imagine what God is truly like. Just imagine the greatest God that you can possibly muster in your wildest imagination, and then realize that you haven't even come CLOSE. THAT is how grand the creator of this universe necessarily must be if one exists. And She certainly doesn't need YOU to save any souls except perhaps YOUR OWN. And of course, what you believe is true and correct while theirs is a delusional fantasy. And you really don't see the hypocracy in that, do you...  
Where did I ever say that I "believe" in anything? 
Where did I ever say that anything is "true and correct"?
Are you confusing faith with belief?
Consider what I said; "THAT is how grand the creator of this universe necessarily must be if one exists." Did I say that I know one exists and this is "true". No. Did I even say that I "believe" one exists? No. All I say is that I have FAITH that if one exists it must necessarily be far grander than Cowboy's selfish egotistical demonic God. You seem to be missing the point entirely. I have FAITH that if there is a God, She's WONDERFUL. After all, as far as I'm concerned that's the very definition of God. Because a God who is as mean and nasty as Cowboy's God wouldn't be a God by definition anyway, it would be a demon. Do I have FAITH that God is truly wonderful beyond our wildest imagination. Yes. Do I know that a God exists? No. I do have reasons to suspect that we are God though. In fact, all that basically boils down to is that our true essence is spiritual and eternal, and yes, I have reasons to suspect that this may very well be the case. Do I claim to know that this is truth? No. I confess that when it come to this subject material I am necessarily agnostic (i.e. without absolute knowledge) But I am willing to offer reasons why I feel that it is more likely than not. Where's the hypocrisy in any of that? So...you have faith in something you don't believe in. Got it. Yeah, that makes just so much more sense...
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Yes God has faith in us. If God had no faith in us he would destroy us for there would be no purpose for us. Wow. You make God sound like a selfish self-centered prick. Cowboy doesn't paint God up to be all love and roses. Cowboy likes his God to be a nasty SOB. It's easier to threaten people with a God who doesn't care about them. He continually states that there's nothing in it for God. Although, we know that's not true because the Bible tells us otherwise. God is seeking devoted servants who will do his will without question or hesitation. According to the Bible Jesus himself lusts to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the few humans who will make it into his kingdom. It's all about worshiping God and Jesus. That's the only purpose to it. The Biblical God is an extremely needy God, he needs to be worshiped and will throw temper tantrums if he doesn't get his way. He's so desperate to be worshiped he even had his own son slaughtered on a pole. Probably to demonstrate to people just how heartless and cruel he can be. If he'll be that mean to his own son just imagine what he might do to you! 
Get down on your knees Arcamedees and beg for mercy! If you refuse to cower down to this demon and worship it he will KILL you! Or worse yet, he'll cast you into a state of eternal suffering to appease his lust for sadism.
No love lost for this God. This God hates your guts. It's a God that's so full of hate there isn't any room for love. ================================== Cowboy doesn't paint God up to be all love and roses. Cowboy likes his God to be a nasty SOB. It's easier to threaten people with a God who doesn't care about them. He continually states that there's nothing in it for God. =================================== No i'm not going to or will I ever paint the picture of God to be all roses. But God is all love. There is something in it for God, love. God gains nothing but you from you accepting Jesus as lord and saviour. He doesn't become more powerful or anything of such, he only wants YOU. He loves YOU and wants YOU to come home. -------------------------------------------- ==================================== God is seeking devoted servants who will do his will without question or hesitation. According to the Bible Jesus himself lusts to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the few humans who will make it into his kingdom. ==================================== No, Jesus doesn't lust to be the king of kings and lord of lords, he is king of kings and lord of lords. ---------------------------------------------- ==================================== Get down on your knees Arcamedees and beg for mercy! If you refuse to cower down to this demon and worship it he will KILL you! Or worse yet, he'll cast you into a state of eternal suffering to appease his lust for sadism.
===================================== No, there is only possibilites after we leave this world. Either ceasing to exist or heaven. It's not out of punishment. Ok say you're on a dead end road headed for a drop off on a cliff, there's guard rails all on the side so you can drive off the road and you can't stop cause there's to much traffic. Jesus is there offering a way off that road leading to the kingdom of God. You can keep driving if you wish, but God offers for you to share in the love and joy. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, that's just where the road ends if you do not wish to get off the road. ----------------------------------------------------- ======================================== He's so desperate to be worshiped he even had his own son slaughtered on a pole. Probably to demonstrate to people just how heartless and cruel he can be. If he'll be that mean to his own son just imagine what he might do to you! :devil ======================================== The crucifixtion of Jesus was for you. Was to be forgiven for YOUR sins. So in all honesty, it was YOU that crucified Jesus or as you say "slaughtered on a pole". ------------------------------------------------------ ========================================= No love lost for this God. This God hates your guts. It's a God that's so full of hate there isn't any room for love. ========================================= Yeah God hates us. That's why he offers eternal paradise full of love. That's why he's there for us when we are in need if we call upon him for his help. Yeah really sounds like he just hates our guts. Ok. So God is a greedy, insecure, needy ex-wife of mine. Got it. If only I had known.... 
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a god that "needs" faith or has faith lacks omniscience .... Maybe God does lack omniscience to a degree. Maybe She created the universe in such a way as to contain an element of randomness. She's the God of quantum mechanics. The God who plays dice, remember? But it's not totally random chaos. Just like dice aren't. When you roll a pair of dice the precise number that comes up is random. However, at the same time you know that the number that comes up will be a whole number between or including 2 to 12. Nothing else is possible. So in a sense you know all possible outcomes, yet you don't know what the specific outcome will be. This is how the God works that created this universe. She's given us the freedom to gamble. And even She doesn't know precisely what numbers will come up, she only knows that numbers are possible. Only in that sense is She omniscient. That's how She gave us FREE WILL. If we didn't have that random element then we couldn't have freedom of choice. yeah..that makes so much more sense...
And the randomness of quantum mechanics has been pretty much worked out by the lastest advances in String Theory. |
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a god that "needs" faith or has faith lacks omniscience .... Maybe God does lack omniscience to a degree. Maybe She created the universe in such a way as to contain an element of randomness. She's the God of quantum mechanics. The God who plays dice, remember? Jeez Abracadabra ...God is a dude not a woman ...but anyway the bible tells of God (the dude) lacking omniscience when it claimed that God "grieved" Poor God. So filled with emotion and no one to share it with. No wonder he's trying to raise pets to keep him company. well I heard that he talks to himself or two others of himself being a schitzo means never having to be alone... |
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The universe isn't 3 dimensional, it's 4 dimensional. Time is co-terminus with space. A God who exists outside of space would exist outside of time. That means God could see the entirety of time and space, which would essentially be Omniscience. God's knowledge isn't a result of magic or "middle knowledge", it's the logical result of a being existing outside of time and space.
I'll quote Einstein: "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." Past, present and future only exists to us, because we are trapped in 4 dimensional space. |
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Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment Then why are you constantly speaking in terms of punishments and comparing the Biblical God to a parent who is constantly punishing his children for not obeying him? Your claims simply make no sense. You say: 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. If the only reward for sin is death, and ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, then what's all this constant gibberish about God punishing people for their sins? You make about as much sense as the Bible, which is basically no sense at all. Why do you constantly speak in terms of 'punishments'? The reward for sin is death, not punishment. Remember. By your own declaration, "The only reward for sin is death" In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ---------------------------------------- In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. ----------------------------------------- He sacrificed his entire life for you. He sacrificed every waking second of his day for you in one way or other. In the end he sacrificed himself to go through all the pain emotionally and physically being put on that cross, for you. That is how he paid for your sins, through the sacrifices he made for you. ========================== ----------------------------------------- 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. ----------------------------------------- 1. Yes very true 2. is a punishment depending on you. Do you wish to be with your loved ones for eternity? Do you wish to share in joyful memories with your loved ones for eternity? Or do you wish to just disappear after you pass away on earth. Punishment is only punishment if it is not what the one wants. Prison is used as punishment in the USA, but might not be punishment to someone that wishes to be there. I mean heck free rent, free everything, not having to work. How could that be punishment for someone that doesn't wish to have much in life? ========================================== ----------------------------------------- The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ------------------------------------------ It does make sense. Most people wish to continue on enjoying living with their loved ones and having joyful memories made with them. They do not wish to say good bye when they have to pass away on this earth, is why funerals and such are so gloomy and sad. They do not wish to depart from that person. Thus, God offers us a way to not have to depart from them. Gives us a chance to be with them and enjoy each other for ever. An eternity of THAT sounds like hell to me. Do you really think after a 100 years, 1000 years, 1000000 years you'll really give a crap what happened to you during your "lifetime"? Or that anyone you ever knew would hold any interest for you in the slightest? |
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Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment Then why are you constantly speaking in terms of punishments and comparing the Biblical God to a parent who is constantly punishing his children for not obeying him? Your claims simply make no sense. You say: 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. If the only reward for sin is death, and ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, then what's all this constant gibberish about God punishing people for their sins? You make about as much sense as the Bible, which is basically no sense at all. Why do you constantly speak in terms of 'punishments'? The reward for sin is death, not punishment. Remember. By your own declaration, "The only reward for sin is death" In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ---------------------------------------- In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. ----------------------------------------- He sacrificed his entire life for you. He sacrificed every waking second of his day for you in one way or other. In the end he sacrificed himself to go through all the pain emotionally and physically being put on that cross, for you. That is how he paid for your sins, through the sacrifices he made for you. ========================== ----------------------------------------- 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. ----------------------------------------- 1. Yes very true 2. is a punishment depending on you. Do you wish to be with your loved ones for eternity? Do you wish to share in joyful memories with your loved ones for eternity? Or do you wish to just disappear after you pass away on earth. Punishment is only punishment if it is not what the one wants. Prison is used as punishment in the USA, but might not be punishment to someone that wishes to be there. I mean heck free rent, free everything, not having to work. How could that be punishment for someone that doesn't wish to have much in life? ========================================== ----------------------------------------- The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ------------------------------------------ It does make sense. Most people wish to continue on enjoying living with their loved ones and having joyful memories made with them. They do not wish to say good bye when they have to pass away on this earth, is why funerals and such are so gloomy and sad. They do not wish to depart from that person. Thus, God offers us a way to not have to depart from them. Gives us a chance to be with them and enjoy each other for ever. An eternity of THAT sounds like hell to me. Do you really think after a 100 years, 1000 years, 1000000 years you'll really give a crap what happened to you during your "lifetime"? Or that anyone you ever knew would hold any interest for you in the slightest? After 5 seconds if that long of seeing our father i will not give a crap what happened to me in this life. But i plan to make more memories in heaven with our father, my loved ones, and everyone else that is there. |
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No, there is no torture involved with anything. The only punishment now is death. No torture, no nothing. Before Jesus walked the earth there was still no torture. Torture is unconditional punishment. Righteous judgement is just that, a righteous judgement. With unconditional punishment there is no compassion, no forgiveness. With a judgement all elements are included in which made you do the action you did. Cowboy...God to prove a point to Satan allows JOB's entire family to be killed ...JOB was supposedly most faithful to GOD ...so is this what you and God call a rigtheous judgement and not torture ..so explain what did JOB do wrong for God to kill his entire family and cause JOB torment Yes, life is a life long test. Not by God for our father does not test or tempt us. But he allows Satan to tempt us, in anyway he wishes. Wasn't to prove a point wasn't anything like that, this kind of stuff happens everyday to everyone. We loose people, we loose objects, we loose jobs, we loose alot. But all that is lost is multiplied and waiting for us in heaven. Without bad things happening to us in our lives, it would be like heaven. No sickness, no pain, no anything negative is what heaven will be like. We're not in heaven. We have sickness, physical and emotional pain, tragedies and much more. Again, all that is lost to us on this world, if we do not curse God or loose faith. We will have our reward waiting for us in heaven. EVERYONE has their reward after we pass away on this earth. We will have rewards for the works we did and or the way we lived our lives. We live our lives in a holy way and try our best to serve our lord, our reward will be great. If our works and or life we live is disobedient and or bad, our rewards will be of the same manner. So...why again didn't God just save a step and just make Earth like Heaven? It seems like God would have to be a sadist not to. |
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God plays favorites... My god plays not favorites. for he is with you as he is with me. But he does not take the steps. What steps you take will decide if you are favored by you. God will be with you even should you step wrong and fall. but he (in this day) expects you to get yourself back up. seek and ye shall find. James 4:8 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded as were the times then, this is true. as are the times now. God is with you from the moment you are. He is allways nigh unto you. Seek rather the path you would travel for god will travel it with you as he travels mine. It is the same God then as it is now. Nothing has changed. Draw nigh to God with your heart and mind, feelings and thinkings and the father will reveal himself to your mind touching your heart and showing you things you never imagined........... eg. draw nigh to God and he will draw nigh unto you. God is the same. Mankind is not, for we have grown a small bit. But your book did not. You do not have to seek god. God is not in the book... bible. The information on our father is there, but not the father himself. God can be found everyone. Since we have separated ourselves from our father with sin, we can't in an exact tense see him in a physical form. But you can still see him everywhere. Seeking God shows attempt to reach him, actions speak louder then words. And is why God has you seek him first before he reveals himself to you. For if God revealed himself to everyone right off the bat, people would have no other choice but to believe in him. But since we have to earn our way back into the kingdom his presence isn't given, but received through your own choice, your decisions, shows greater love if you are willing to seek him first rather then just handed to you on a silver platter. Wow. Now you make God sound like a complete a-hole. Are you sure you're God's rep on Earth? How is that being a complete a-hole? When someone does something terribly wrong to you, weather it's your wife cheating on you or other.. do they not have to show some form of regret for doing as such before you can truly forgive them? Or is a simple "i'm sorry, i won't do it again" good enough for you after you just caught you're wife and another man in bed together. Well, if I created my wife, and I knew what I was doing when I created her, and then she cheated on me, it would be my fault that she cheated on me. Obviously, my creation was only doing things in accordance to how she was created. Not only would it be illogical to blame her for her actions, it would pretty much make me an a-hole. If anyone should be punished for her actions, it should be me. If God created us, and He knew what He was doing when He did, then nothing we do is really our fault. We're just behaving in accordance to how we were created. Punishing us for that makes God an a-hole. Yeah yeah..free will...blah blah blah. Unfortunatly, an omnicient God who creates something negates free will. Free will necessitates the ability to be unpredictable. If God knows everything, not a whole lot is going to be unpredictable. Our actions and choices of things we do aren't premeditated into us, we're not "programmed". We have free will and make decisions on our own. We can listen or be disobedient. Does not reflect the creator. If we were programmed to be a certain way then yes it would be the creators fault. But since people willingly choose how to behave through their lives influenced by what they wish to allow influence from then no it can not be the creators fault. |
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No, there is no torture involved with anything. The only punishment now is death. No torture, no nothing. Before Jesus walked the earth there was still no torture. Torture is unconditional punishment. Righteous judgement is just that, a righteous judgement. With unconditional punishment there is no compassion, no forgiveness. With a judgement all elements are included in which made you do the action you did. Cowboy...God to prove a point to Satan allows JOB's entire family to be killed ...JOB was supposedly most faithful to GOD ...so is this what you and God call a rigtheous judgement and not torture ..so explain what did JOB do wrong for God to kill his entire family and cause JOB torment Yes, life is a life long test. Not by God for our father does not test or tempt us. But he allows Satan to tempt us, in anyway he wishes. Wasn't to prove a point wasn't anything like that, this kind of stuff happens everyday to everyone. We loose people, we loose objects, we loose jobs, we loose alot. But all that is lost is multiplied and waiting for us in heaven. Without bad things happening to us in our lives, it would be like heaven. No sickness, no pain, no anything negative is what heaven will be like. We're not in heaven. We have sickness, physical and emotional pain, tragedies and much more. Again, all that is lost to us on this world, if we do not curse God or loose faith. We will have our reward waiting for us in heaven. EVERYONE has their reward after we pass away on this earth. We will have rewards for the works we did and or the way we lived our lives. We live our lives in a holy way and try our best to serve our lord, our reward will be great. If our works and or life we live is disobedient and or bad, our rewards will be of the same manner. So...why again didn't God just save a step and just make Earth like Heaven? It seems like God would have to be a sadist not to. Because then we would not have appreciated heaven as much. Take rich kids for instance. They appreciate money less then poor people. They spend it on useless things and get all sorts of things. Something breaks, they're like oh well i'll get another. There's no real appreciation for what they have. Same with if we would have been made in heaven. We wouldn't know what it's like to have any form of pain so we would take heaven for granted. |
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The universe isn't 3 dimensional, it's 4 dimensional. Time is co-terminus with space. A God who exists outside of space would exist outside of time. That means God could see the entirety of time and space, which would essentially be Omniscience. God's knowledge isn't a result of magic or "middle knowledge", it's the logical result of a being existing outside of time and space. I'll quote Einstein: "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." Past, present and future only exists to us, because we are trapped in 4 dimensional space. You should try to keep up. The universe, as you say, is actually 11 dimensional, at least. And what's your point? |
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The universe isn't 3 dimensional, it's 4 dimensional. Time is co-terminus with space. A God who exists outside of space would exist outside of time. That means God could see the entirety of time and space, which would essentially be Omniscience. God's knowledge isn't a result of magic or "middle knowledge", it's the logical result of a being existing outside of time and space. I'll quote Einstein: "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." Past, present and future only exists to us, because we are trapped in 4 dimensional space. You should try to keep up. The universe, as you say, is actually 11 dimensional, at least. And what's your point? If String theory is correct, it could be 11 (or 12) dimensional. But regardless of the number of dimensions of the universe, a God who exists outside of the universe would still be omniscient. I thought my point was obvious. Omniscience is absolutely possible from a scientific perspective. Just adding my 2 cents. |
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Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment Then why are you constantly speaking in terms of punishments and comparing the Biblical God to a parent who is constantly punishing his children for not obeying him? Your claims simply make no sense. You say: 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. If the only reward for sin is death, and ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, then what's all this constant gibberish about God punishing people for their sins? You make about as much sense as the Bible, which is basically no sense at all. Why do you constantly speak in terms of 'punishments'? The reward for sin is death, not punishment. Remember. By your own declaration, "The only reward for sin is death" In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ---------------------------------------- In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. ----------------------------------------- He sacrificed his entire life for you. He sacrificed every waking second of his day for you in one way or other. In the end he sacrificed himself to go through all the pain emotionally and physically being put on that cross, for you. That is how he paid for your sins, through the sacrifices he made for you. ========================== ----------------------------------------- 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. ----------------------------------------- 1. Yes very true 2. is a punishment depending on you. Do you wish to be with your loved ones for eternity? Do you wish to share in joyful memories with your loved ones for eternity? Or do you wish to just disappear after you pass away on earth. Punishment is only punishment if it is not what the one wants. Prison is used as punishment in the USA, but might not be punishment to someone that wishes to be there. I mean heck free rent, free everything, not having to work. How could that be punishment for someone that doesn't wish to have much in life? ========================================== ----------------------------------------- The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ------------------------------------------ It does make sense. Most people wish to continue on enjoying living with their loved ones and having joyful memories made with them. They do not wish to say good bye when they have to pass away on this earth, is why funerals and such are so gloomy and sad. They do not wish to depart from that person. Thus, God offers us a way to not have to depart from them. Gives us a chance to be with them and enjoy each other for ever. An eternity of THAT sounds like hell to me. Do you really think after a 100 years, 1000 years, 1000000 years you'll really give a crap what happened to you during your "lifetime"? Or that anyone you ever knew would hold any interest for you in the slightest? After 5 seconds if that long of seeing our father i will not give a crap what happened to me in this life. But i plan to make more memories in heaven with our father, my loved ones, and everyone else that is there. More memories of what? And seriously. After a while, you don't think you'll be bored out of your mind with your loved ones and everyone else? |
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Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment Then why are you constantly speaking in terms of punishments and comparing the Biblical God to a parent who is constantly punishing his children for not obeying him? Your claims simply make no sense. You say: 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. If the only reward for sin is death, and ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, then what's all this constant gibberish about God punishing people for their sins? You make about as much sense as the Bible, which is basically no sense at all. Why do you constantly speak in terms of 'punishments'? The reward for sin is death, not punishment. Remember. By your own declaration, "The only reward for sin is death" In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ---------------------------------------- In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. ----------------------------------------- He sacrificed his entire life for you. He sacrificed every waking second of his day for you in one way or other. In the end he sacrificed himself to go through all the pain emotionally and physically being put on that cross, for you. That is how he paid for your sins, through the sacrifices he made for you. ========================== ----------------------------------------- 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. ----------------------------------------- 1. Yes very true 2. is a punishment depending on you. Do you wish to be with your loved ones for eternity? Do you wish to share in joyful memories with your loved ones for eternity? Or do you wish to just disappear after you pass away on earth. Punishment is only punishment if it is not what the one wants. Prison is used as punishment in the USA, but might not be punishment to someone that wishes to be there. I mean heck free rent, free everything, not having to work. How could that be punishment for someone that doesn't wish to have much in life? ========================================== ----------------------------------------- The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ------------------------------------------ It does make sense. Most people wish to continue on enjoying living with their loved ones and having joyful memories made with them. They do not wish to say good bye when they have to pass away on this earth, is why funerals and such are so gloomy and sad. They do not wish to depart from that person. Thus, God offers us a way to not have to depart from them. Gives us a chance to be with them and enjoy each other for ever. An eternity of THAT sounds like hell to me. Do you really think after a 100 years, 1000 years, 1000000 years you'll really give a crap what happened to you during your "lifetime"? Or that anyone you ever knew would hold any interest for you in the slightest? After 5 seconds if that long of seeing our father i will not give a crap what happened to me in this life. But i plan to make more memories in heaven with our father, my loved ones, and everyone else that is there. More memories of what? And seriously. After a while, you don't think you'll be bored out of your mind with your loved ones and everyone else? No i will never get bored with heaven and worshipping our father and creator. I could do it and will do it with every last second of my existence. |
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God plays favorites... My god plays not favorites. for he is with you as he is with me. But he does not take the steps. What steps you take will decide if you are favored by you. God will be with you even should you step wrong and fall. but he (in this day) expects you to get yourself back up. seek and ye shall find. James 4:8 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded as were the times then, this is true. as are the times now. God is with you from the moment you are. He is allways nigh unto you. Seek rather the path you would travel for god will travel it with you as he travels mine. It is the same God then as it is now. Nothing has changed. Draw nigh to God with your heart and mind, feelings and thinkings and the father will reveal himself to your mind touching your heart and showing you things you never imagined........... eg. draw nigh to God and he will draw nigh unto you. God is the same. Mankind is not, for we have grown a small bit. But your book did not. You do not have to seek god. God is not in the book... bible. The information on our father is there, but not the father himself. God can be found everyone. Since we have separated ourselves from our father with sin, we can't in an exact tense see him in a physical form. But you can still see him everywhere. Seeking God shows attempt to reach him, actions speak louder then words. And is why God has you seek him first before he reveals himself to you. For if God revealed himself to everyone right off the bat, people would have no other choice but to believe in him. But since we have to earn our way back into the kingdom his presence isn't given, but received through your own choice, your decisions, shows greater love if you are willing to seek him first rather then just handed to you on a silver platter. Wow. Now you make God sound like a complete a-hole. Are you sure you're God's rep on Earth? How is that being a complete a-hole? When someone does something terribly wrong to you, weather it's your wife cheating on you or other.. do they not have to show some form of regret for doing as such before you can truly forgive them? Or is a simple "i'm sorry, i won't do it again" good enough for you after you just caught you're wife and another man in bed together. Well, if I created my wife, and I knew what I was doing when I created her, and then she cheated on me, it would be my fault that she cheated on me. Obviously, my creation was only doing things in accordance to how she was created. Not only would it be illogical to blame her for her actions, it would pretty much make me an a-hole. If anyone should be punished for her actions, it should be me. If God created us, and He knew what He was doing when He did, then nothing we do is really our fault. We're just behaving in accordance to how we were created. Punishing us for that makes God an a-hole. Yeah yeah..free will...blah blah blah. Unfortunatly, an omnicient God who creates something negates free will. Free will necessitates the ability to be unpredictable. If God knows everything, not a whole lot is going to be unpredictable. Our actions and choices of things we do aren't premeditated into us, we're not "programmed". We have free will and make decisions on our own. We can listen or be disobedient. Does not reflect the creator. If we were programmed to be a certain way then yes it would be the creators fault. But since people willingly choose how to behave through their lives influenced by what they wish to allow influence from then no it can not be the creators fault. ok...here we go into pointless argument number 12.... Can we just save a bunch of posts and simply say... You just don't understand why I just don't get it. And I don't understand why you can't apply simple logic. Can we just leave at that? |
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No, there is no torture involved with anything. The only punishment now is death. No torture, no nothing. Before Jesus walked the earth there was still no torture. Torture is unconditional punishment. Righteous judgement is just that, a righteous judgement. With unconditional punishment there is no compassion, no forgiveness. With a judgement all elements are included in which made you do the action you did. Cowboy...God to prove a point to Satan allows JOB's entire family to be killed ...JOB was supposedly most faithful to GOD ...so is this what you and God call a rigtheous judgement and not torture ..so explain what did JOB do wrong for God to kill his entire family and cause JOB torment Yes, life is a life long test. Not by God for our father does not test or tempt us. But he allows Satan to tempt us, in anyway he wishes. Wasn't to prove a point wasn't anything like that, this kind of stuff happens everyday to everyone. We loose people, we loose objects, we loose jobs, we loose alot. But all that is lost is multiplied and waiting for us in heaven. Without bad things happening to us in our lives, it would be like heaven. No sickness, no pain, no anything negative is what heaven will be like. We're not in heaven. We have sickness, physical and emotional pain, tragedies and much more. Again, all that is lost to us on this world, if we do not curse God or loose faith. We will have our reward waiting for us in heaven. EVERYONE has their reward after we pass away on this earth. We will have rewards for the works we did and or the way we lived our lives. We live our lives in a holy way and try our best to serve our lord, our reward will be great. If our works and or life we live is disobedient and or bad, our rewards will be of the same manner. So...why again didn't God just save a step and just make Earth like Heaven? It seems like God would have to be a sadist not to. Because then we would not have appreciated heaven as much. Take rich kids for instance. They appreciate money less then poor people. They spend it on useless things and get all sorts of things. Something breaks, they're like oh well i'll get another. There's no real appreciation for what they have. Same with if we would have been made in heaven. We wouldn't know what it's like to have any form of pain so we would take heaven for granted. yeah, because God just couldn't have designed us to appreciate Heaven to the degree He desired...
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The universe isn't 3 dimensional, it's 4 dimensional. Time is co-terminus with space. A God who exists outside of space would exist outside of time. That means God could see the entirety of time and space, which would essentially be Omniscience. God's knowledge isn't a result of magic or "middle knowledge", it's the logical result of a being existing outside of time and space. I'll quote Einstein: "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." Past, present and future only exists to us, because we are trapped in 4 dimensional space. You should try to keep up. The universe, as you say, is actually 11 dimensional, at least. And what's your point? If String theory is correct, it could be 11 (or 12) dimensional. But regardless of the number of dimensions of the universe, a God who exists outside of the universe would still be omniscient. I thought my point was obvious. Omniscience is absolutely possible from a scientific perspective. Just adding my 2 cents. umm...oky doky then... |
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Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment Then why are you constantly speaking in terms of punishments and comparing the Biblical God to a parent who is constantly punishing his children for not obeying him? Your claims simply make no sense. You say: 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. If the only reward for sin is death, and ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, then what's all this constant gibberish about God punishing people for their sins? You make about as much sense as the Bible, which is basically no sense at all. Why do you constantly speak in terms of 'punishments'? The reward for sin is death, not punishment. Remember. By your own declaration, "The only reward for sin is death" In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ---------------------------------------- In fact, taking this to the limit we can clearly see that Jesus could not have paid for anyone sins because Jesus didn't die spiritually. Any pain or suffering that he might have endured would be totally moot because punishment and suffering have absolutely nothing to do with any payments for sin. ----------------------------------------- He sacrificed his entire life for you. He sacrificed every waking second of his day for you in one way or other. In the end he sacrificed himself to go through all the pain emotionally and physically being put on that cross, for you. That is how he paid for your sins, through the sacrifices he made for you. ========================== ----------------------------------------- 1. The only reward for sin is death. 2. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment. ----------------------------------------- 1. Yes very true 2. is a punishment depending on you. Do you wish to be with your loved ones for eternity? Do you wish to share in joyful memories with your loved ones for eternity? Or do you wish to just disappear after you pass away on earth. Punishment is only punishment if it is not what the one wants. Prison is used as punishment in the USA, but might not be punishment to someone that wishes to be there. I mean heck free rent, free everything, not having to work. How could that be punishment for someone that doesn't wish to have much in life? ========================================== ----------------------------------------- The story that you try to make from this fable has no consistency or reason to it at all. These ancient fables cannot be made to make any sense at all. They are nonsense. ------------------------------------------ It does make sense. Most people wish to continue on enjoying living with their loved ones and having joyful memories made with them. They do not wish to say good bye when they have to pass away on this earth, is why funerals and such are so gloomy and sad. They do not wish to depart from that person. Thus, God offers us a way to not have to depart from them. Gives us a chance to be with them and enjoy each other for ever. An eternity of THAT sounds like hell to me. Do you really think after a 100 years, 1000 years, 1000000 years you'll really give a crap what happened to you during your "lifetime"? Or that anyone you ever knew would hold any interest for you in the slightest? After 5 seconds if that long of seeing our father i will not give a crap what happened to me in this life. But i plan to make more memories in heaven with our father, my loved ones, and everyone else that is there. More memories of what? And seriously. After a while, you don't think you'll be bored out of your mind with your loved ones and everyone else? No i will never get bored with heaven and worshipping our father and creator. I could do it and will do it with every last second of my existence. I bet you're a lot of fun at parties... |
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No, there is no torture involved with anything. The only punishment now is death. No torture, no nothing. Before Jesus walked the earth there was still no torture. Torture is unconditional punishment. Righteous judgement is just that, a righteous judgement. With unconditional punishment there is no compassion, no forgiveness. With a judgement all elements are included in which made you do the action you did. Cowboy...God to prove a point to Satan allows JOB's entire family to be killed ...JOB was supposedly most faithful to GOD ...so is this what you and God call a rigtheous judgement and not torture ..so explain what did JOB do wrong for God to kill his entire family and cause JOB torment Yes, life is a life long test. Not by God for our father does not test or tempt us. But he allows Satan to tempt us, in anyway he wishes. Wasn't to prove a point wasn't anything like that, this kind of stuff happens everyday to everyone. We loose people, we loose objects, we loose jobs, we loose alot. But all that is lost is multiplied and waiting for us in heaven. Without bad things happening to us in our lives, it would be like heaven. No sickness, no pain, no anything negative is what heaven will be like. We're not in heaven. We have sickness, physical and emotional pain, tragedies and much more. Again, all that is lost to us on this world, if we do not curse God or loose faith. We will have our reward waiting for us in heaven. EVERYONE has their reward after we pass away on this earth. We will have rewards for the works we did and or the way we lived our lives. We live our lives in a holy way and try our best to serve our lord, our reward will be great. If our works and or life we live is disobedient and or bad, our rewards will be of the same manner. So...why again didn't God just save a step and just make Earth like Heaven? It seems like God would have to be a sadist not to. Because then we would not have appreciated heaven as much. Take rich kids for instance. They appreciate money less then poor people. They spend it on useless things and get all sorts of things. Something breaks, they're like oh well i'll get another. There's no real appreciation for what they have. Same with if we would have been made in heaven. We wouldn't know what it's like to have any form of pain so we would take heaven for granted. yeah, because God just couldn't have designed us to appreciate Heaven to the degree He desired...
Appreciation is an emotion. Our emotions are not influenced by our father or anyone else less we allow them to be. You're talking in a way as if you wished our father "controlled" us like little dolls or something. We are individuals with individual wants and desires. All emotions and all different from one another and not controlled by our father. We are given the right to feel what we want to feel to do what we want to do, and you're talking like you wish we were just robots God had created. What would have been the point with that? What would anyone benefit from that? We wouldn't be individuals with our own thinking. Again, our emotions and what we like or dislike are created by our own selves. |
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Many profess faith in god. I profess that god has faith in you... Perhaps if you had that same unconditional faith in you... Your path would never be dark. But god doesn't have faith in me. In all major religions he/she/it states that my human nature is sinful and I need a religion to control it. The whole religious experience is about forgiving me for what I am. 
Sure he does. Only the religions that falsely claim absolute dominion (only god has this) have no faith in you. You are supposed to be I AM in the measure that you are. God expects only that you strive to be. Not that you are as he IS but that you are as he created you. |
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