Heaven is a place of 'many rooms'... Laws in such a place would also be a multitude.

What 'law' there was in your portion of heaven would not hold in mine.

What a follower of Islam would experience in their heaven would not be what I experienced in mine.

What a devout Christian would experience would be different from what a simple Christian soul would experience.

What I will experience will fit within my cup.

For god is indeed most great.

He is with you as he is with me.

Therefore he is greater then us both.

No absolutely not.

Before you could even consider "accepting" someone as your savior you first need to be convinced that the rumors surrounding them are true. Until you've done that it would be impossible to 'accept' anything.

The reason that the original Christians created these rumors is because by convincing people that they need to 'accept' Jesus as their savior, they were automatically (and quite underhandedly) getting them to also agree with the whole mythology.

In order to "accept" Jesus as your savior, you must FIRST believe in the entire Old Testament and the God of Abraham. If you don't FIRST believe in that then it would be silly to "accept" Jesus as the demigod of the Virgin Mary and the God of Abraham.

So before you can "accept" Jesus as your savior, you must FIRST "accept" that the entire Old Testament is the "Word of God".

Or to put that another way, when the Christians go around convincing innocent victims that they need to "accept" Jesus as their savior, what they are really doing (whether they realize it or not), is getting people to accept an entire mythology.

A LOT of people have "accepted" Jesus as their savior FIRST without really understanding what the whole religion was about. Actually any such "acceptance" was a false act anyway. It's a lie to "accept" something that you don't even fully understand. How can you "accept" something when you don't even have a clue what the fine print is?

In fact, once you read the fine print (i.e. the entire Bible) you'll quickly realize that the God that is offering eternal life in this fable isn't even a worthy master. I wouldn't want to serve this God for anything. The bottom line for me is quite simple; even if the fable is TRUE, I would reject the offer to serve this so-called "God" for all of eternity. Atheism (or pure spiritual death) would be a far more welcome choice, IMHO.

This God is a male-chauvinist pig who does truly morbid things and can't even forgive sins unless someone is slaughtered on a pole.

He's a totally disgusting God that makes Zeus look like a nice guy!

If there is some sort of egotistical individual creator of this universe, let's all hope an pray that it isn't described by the ancient Hebrew fokelore.

The Wiccan Goddess is a far better picture of a God, and that's just ONE other choice!

The American Indian Wanka Tanka was a far better picture of God as well.

And of course, the Eastern mystic picture of God is the best possible picture of all, IMHO. But I suppose that depends on how the individual views that picture.

But the egotistical jealous male-chauvinistic God of the Hebrews who is appeased by blood sacrifices is a horrible picture of a God. Even according to Cowboy this God doesn't give a damn about you or me at all. All he cares about is himself.

there be nothing that need faith, if it know's what it needs to know.

faith be only for what does not know god.

faith only be needed for those that do not yet know that "god" only be the self correction of self in every human brain, hiding in plain site in their own head.

and as they looked into the skies, and begged and pleaded for favor's and mercies from god, they got none, until the light shined down and tore the sky of reality apart, and the rememberence come alive, that god grants no extra knowing as greater knowing or wisdom for self, lest it wants to know such for the sake of wanting to know how to love and make other's truely happy.

god need not faith, for "god" knows each step that any mortal takes before it takes it, for "god" be the one providing the data in one's brain, to make it do what it do, to teach self something that it needs to know, to make it recognize what "god" wants it to recognize, which in the end of the beginning be most what would be most important for it's loved one's to have, if self did not even exist at all.

nothing be learned about any true "god", or of the self higher self, until anything stop seeking for the sake of trying to figure out anything for SELF TO BE HAPPIER, or to live a better life, or for self to be a good person, but that which comes to the place it wants to know how, to erase the pain it has caused the one's it effected and loved, then such shall meet it's own clone face to face.

Andy, coming from one who has shown knowledge of the history of the church, I'm surprised that you still believe the lies...

Haven't we discussed this before? Did you read Romans 2? Have you researched the "hell hoax"?

The "dogma" claims that ALL men WILL be saved, but that never stopped anyone from lying about it, now did it?

I have more faith in God than you can't even begin to comprehend.

And like Adventure Begins, the God I have faith in is so much grander than the God you've created that I wouldn't even begin to expect you to comprehend it.

You worship a book. You push a book. You're a book salesman.

God is so far above those ancient Hebrews that you worship that until you get your mind out of their book you'll never even be able to imagine what God is truly like.

Just imagine the greatest God that you can possibly muster in your wildest imagination, and then realize that you haven't even come CLOSE. THAT is how grand the creator of this universe necessarily must be if one exists.

And She certainly doesn't need YOU to save any souls except perhaps YOUR OWN.

It certainly didn't stop John.


John.3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


So are you calling John a liar?

I think you have failed to take into consideration that this "dogma" is filled with contradictions and authors that disagree with each other. Clearly John does not agree with what Paul/Saul wrote in Romans.

One (or BOTH) of these authors was clearly making up their own opinions, they can't both be speaking for God, unless God has Alzheimer's disease.

to be saved is to be saved from the want or notion or will or persuit of being saved by anyone or anything that exist.

it cannot be missed, that jesus never begged like a pussey and a coward for his own hide to be "saved".

to live is to live as he did, free from wanting or seeking any mercy for self, for only the narcissist self lover fall for this old ploy, of the "angel of light" called satan, that beckon's and goads for self to ask to save "itself", and it's own hide, so itself can have light, for indeed, true light only be given to anything mortal when it wishes for smiles for it's own loved one's and countrymen.

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This God is a male-chauvinist pig who does truly morbid things and can't even forgive sins unless someone is slaughtered on a pole.
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Not going to directly reply to the rest of your post for it was just about rambling on about insulting the belief and holds no merit to respond to.

No it's not about having someone slaughtered on a pole. For you to show your affection to say your girlfriend, you would hug her, kiss her, or many other variations of things. We can not do this with the father, thus we have to have a different way to show our emotions to him. We do this through sacrificing something of importance and or of something that is needed. Showing that we love our father through the sacrifice and showing that we trust in him to allow us more. Showing we know he will not forsake us for the actions we've screwed up with. And the ONLY begotten child of God was willing to come down here in a human form to give the greatest sacrifice for us all. And with accepting this sacrifice we also sacrifice. We do not do things of which a lot of people do or would see as enjoyment of which is against the word of our father. We do not do drugs, we do not have premarital sex, we do not have sex with multiple partners, we do not lie, ect ect. Not saying we are perfect, we do stumble time to time and do one or a couple of these things from time to time. But our intentions in life are to not do these things, and through our lives with failing in this grow and eventually not do them. And you people continually refer to our father as "male-chauvinist", which is not true. Every family needs a leader. Everything on this earth needs a leader somewhere, some how. If there is no leader, everyone will just go there own ways and do what they want to do. And if our father had not pointed out a specific person to be the leader, there would be fights and arguments over who is in the family. But again, that is why countries have presidents, schools have principles, jobs have employers/bosses, ect. Everything needs a leader in one way or other, and it was easiest and most sufficient for God to just point one out himself for there would then be arguments and fights on that if he had not.

Wow. You make God sound like a selfish self-centered prick.

Wow. Now you make God sound like a complete a-hole. Are you sure you're God's rep on Earth?

So...Heaven is run like a banana republic. Good to know...

Why persist in not understanding the difference between faith and reason?

And of course, what you believe is true and correct while theirs is a delusional fantasy.
And you really don't see the hypocracy in that, do you...

Cowboy doesn't paint God up to be all love and roses. Cowboy likes his God to be a nasty SOB. It's easier to threaten people with a God who doesn't care about them. He continually states that there's nothing in it for God.

Although, we know that's not true because the Bible tells us otherwise.

God is seeking devoted servants who will do his will without question or hesitation. According to the Bible Jesus himself lusts to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the few humans who will make it into his kingdom.

It's all about worshiping God and Jesus. That's the only purpose to it. The Biblical God is an extremely needy God, he needs to be worshiped and will throw temper tantrums if he doesn't get his way.

He's so desperate to be worshiped he even had his own son slaughtered on a pole. Probably to demonstrate to people just how heartless and cruel he can be. If he'll be that mean to his own son just imagine what he might do to you!

Get down on your knees Arcamedees and beg for mercy! If you refuse to cower down to this demon and worship it he will KILL you! Or worse yet, he'll cast you into a state of eternal suffering to appease his lust for sadism.

No love lost for this God. This God hates your guts. It's a God that's so full of hate there isn't any room for love.

How is that being a complete a-hole? When someone does something terribly wrong to you, weather it's your wife cheating on you or other.. do they not have to show some form of regret for doing as such before you can truly forgive them? Or is a simple "i'm sorry, i won't do it again" good enough for you after you just caught you're wife and another man in bed together.

What in the world does reason have to do with this?

a god that "needs" faith or has faith lacks omniscience ....

a person that "needs" faith in themself lacks confidence ....

Where did I ever say that I "believe" in anything?

Where did I ever say that anything is "true and correct"?

Are you confusing faith with belief?

Consider what I said; "THAT is how grand the creator of this universe necessarily must be if one exists."

Did I say that I know one exists and this is "true". No.

Did I even say that I "believe" one exists? No.

All I say is that I have FAITH that if one exists it must necessarily be far grander than Cowboy's selfish egotistical demonic God.

You seem to be missing the point entirely.

I have FAITH that if there is a God, She's WONDERFUL. After all, as far as I'm concerned that's the very definition of God. Because a God who is as mean and nasty as Cowboy's God wouldn't be a God by definition anyway, it would be a demon.

Do I have FAITH that God is truly wonderful beyond our wildest imagination. Yes.

Do I know that a God exists? No. I do have reasons to suspect that we are God though. In fact, all that basically boils down to is that our true essence is spiritual and eternal, and yes, I have reasons to suspect that this may very well be the case.

Do I claim to know that this is truth? No. I confess that when it come to this subject material I am necessarily agnostic (i.e. without absolute knowledge) But I am willing to offer reasons why I feel that it is more likely than not.

Where's the hypocrisy in any of that?

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Cowboy doesn't paint God up to be all love and roses. Cowboy likes his God to be a nasty SOB. It's easier to threaten people with a God who doesn't care about them. He continually states that there's nothing in it for God.
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No i'm not going to or will I ever paint the picture of God to be all roses. But God is all love. There is something in it for God, love. God gains nothing but you from you accepting Jesus as lord and saviour. He doesn't become more powerful or anything of such, he only wants YOU. He loves YOU and wants YOU to come home.
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God is seeking devoted servants who will do his will without question or hesitation. According to the Bible Jesus himself lusts to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the few humans who will make it into his kingdom.
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No, Jesus doesn't lust to be the king of kings and lord of lords, he is king of kings and lord of lords.
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Get down on your knees Arcamedees and beg for mercy! If you refuse to cower down to this demon and worship it he will KILL you! Or worse yet, he'll cast you into a state of eternal suffering to appease his lust for sadism.
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No, there is only possibilites after we leave this world. Either ceasing to exist or heaven. It's not out of punishment. Ok say you're on a dead end road headed for a drop off on a cliff, there's guard rails all on the side so you can drive off the road and you can't stop cause there's to much traffic. Jesus is there offering a way off that road leading to the kingdom of God. You can keep driving if you wish, but God offers for you to share in the love and joy. Ceasing to exist isn't a punishment, that's just where the road ends if you do not wish to get off the road.
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He's so desperate to be worshiped he even had his own son slaughtered on a pole. Probably to demonstrate to people just how heartless and cruel he can be. If he'll be that mean to his own son just imagine what he might do to you! :devil
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The crucifixtion of Jesus was for you. Was to be forgiven for YOUR sins. So in all honesty, it was YOU that crucified Jesus or as you say "slaughtered on a pole".
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No love lost for this God. This God hates your guts. It's a God that's so full of hate there isn't any room for love.
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Yeah God hates us. That's why he offers eternal paradise full of love. That's why he's there for us when we are in need if we call upon him for his help. Yeah really sounds like he just hates our guts.

Maybe God does lack omniscience to a degree. Maybe She created the universe in such a way as to contain an element of randomness.

She's the God of quantum mechanics. The God who plays dice, remember?

But it's not totally random chaos. Just like dice aren't.

When you roll a pair of dice the precise number that comes up is random. However, at the same time you know that the number that comes up will be a whole number between or including 2 to 12. Nothing else is possible. So in a sense you know all possible outcomes, yet you don't know what the specific outcome will be.

This is how the God works that created this universe. She's given us the freedom to gamble. And even She doesn't know precisely what numbers will come up, she only knows that numbers are possible.

Only in that sense is She omniscient.

That's how She gave us FREE WILL. If we didn't have that random element then we couldn't have freedom of choice.