a great article for the 'just get a job' crowd who believe poverty or unemployment are strictly consequences of not 'working hard'

http://uspoverty.change.org/blog/view/the_myth_of_the_american_meritocracy

the solution usually proposed by these critics of social welfare is simple: the poor just need to work harder. The underlying message is that if you're rich, you deserve it, and if you're poor, well, you must have failed somewhere along the line. So you were born into a poor family in a segregated neighborhood, where "white flight" decreased the number of tax dollars in your neighborhood, sinking your schools into further disrepair? Better pick yourself up by your own bootstraps.

I am the first to agree that hard work is an essential component of financial success. But as a 2008 Working Poor Families Project report states, "Adults in low-income working families worked on average 2,552 hours per year in 2006, the equivalent of almost one and a quarter full-time workers." In short, a lack of hard work simply isn't the issue: unequal opportunity is.

Over 13 percent of Americans are living under the federal poverty line, an unrealistically low measure that since the 1960s has only taken into account the cost of food and hasn't addressed other essential items in a typical living budget, such as medical bills, transportation, and housing costs. When health care costs and geographic variations are taken into consideration, that percentage jumps to almost 16 percent, or one in 6 Americans. Not the best news for someone who's hoping to buy some bootstraps with his spare change.

On the other side of the spectrum, as of 2007, the top 1 percent of U.S. households held a larger slice of the pie than at any other point since 1928. This mass concentration of wealth is deemed justifiable by conservative critics because of a fundamental problem in how they view opportunity and success in our country. They see the U.S. as a meritocracy, where the richest and most powerful citizens earn their positions through good old-fashioned American grit and determination. They fail to recognize that wealth, family connections, race, gender and other factors strongly impact a person's opportunities in life.

Try selling the meritocracy myth to the 42 million adults and children from low-income working families across America. See if they buy it.



WHILE I AGREE THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR MAKING ASSISTANCE A LIFESTYLE CHOICE, I DISAGREE WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT NEEDING AND ACCEPTING TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE MEANS SOMEONE HAS NO PRIDE OR DOESNT WORK HARD

Where you find articles to support your choices...I can do one better. I was born into a hard working family. Ranchers. You want poor, that's getting there.

I am pulling myself out of the poverty hole. Simply because, as I've said before, my daughter deserves the best. So tired and sore...I have to go to work again today...and guess what? I'm working straight through til the following weekend.

Why am I working like this? Because, I have got bills to pay and I will NOT ask the people of Oklahoma to pay for my way.

It is pride, and self respect. It is the pride of knowing that you are paddling your own canoe without anyone handing you one thin dime.

My daughter and I sat down last night after eating. She looked at me with those blue eyes and said that she looked up to me. That's something to be proud of.

My standards are pretty low..."pay me". And to be honest, Andy is very straight forward in the way he expresses himself...but he does have it right. Most of us are considered at or below the poverty line (and this means you too). But the biggest difference between the two of us and you? We can look ourselves in the mirror much easier. We know that our next meal..WE paid for. Our house/apartment..WE paid for.

And you said something that has kinda bothered me a bit. You said something to the effect that you paid this money in and you expect it back (not verbatim...but you get the idea). Imagine if that money was put to education, bettering the roads, public transportation, health care,...how far would the money that you claim every week go for those things? It would help the entire community not just you.

So it comes back to the question I asked you before...what are you going to do for handouts when the welfare runs out? What will happen to those standards then?

"In a higher phase of communist society... only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be fully left behind and society inscribe on its banners: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Karl Marx


Fight the war against POVERTY..not the poor.....

But how do you fight or change human nature?


"People are innately lazy. If they have no reason to work they will not. Keep them hungry to motivate them..."

A quote from the Principles of Rule written for the Prince Machiavelli.

And yet time and time again the "masses" prove this right.

Communism was a great idea BUT human nature cancels it. Look at the history of Russia.

Now for Mexico. Is poverty driving the drug trade? NO! Money does!

I am sorry but this whole campaign to fight poverty falls short when the seeds of Poverty are HUMAN BEINGS! Everyone wants to blame the rich, the government and everything else other than who the real problem is just like the economy issues we have. American Consumerism is what did us in. Our innate greed and spending more energy trying to get easy money rather than knuckling down and doing something meaningful is the problem. If you have nothing to offer you have no way to earn anything. The thing is there is lots of unskilled work out there but it is hard work and does not pay well, why? ANY CHIMP CAN DO IT AND THERE ARE LOTS OF MONKEYS OUT THERE LOOKING FOR ANY WORK THEY CAN GET! You want the big bucks? Get trained to do skilled labor or skilled work or start a business making shoes or something you can sell that people want and need.

To the bleeding hearts out there...

Stop felicitating us with all this feels good diatribe about how we need to help the poor. We have done enough. What we need to do is stop stabbing our own in the back supporting illegal aliens and criminal activities. We need to stop the entitlements and hand outs. People need to learn to account for themselves and stop putting their problems on all of us.

It is one thing to have life spit on you. If you are hard working and need help you deserve it. You want the state to pay for your living just becasue you fell like you can't work or do anything productive? Sell your line of BS to someone who cares becasue a lot of us don't.

Why do I not have any sympathy for unwed mothers? Because those are not my children and I am NOT responsible for them. This whole "for the children" line is bleeding heart BS!

I love the cyclical logic bleeding hearts go by!

'But the biggest difference between the two of us and you?'

is that you have an UNCANNY ability to be condescending and make alot of ASSUMPTIONS and to feel your circumstances and choices are the only 'correct' ones and should be the gauge of other peoples character

good for you sweety, I hope to be just as negative and high and mighty when I grow up,,,

that money goes to the community? I AM part of the community,, pity others cant see that because of some false pride thats been instilled in them to refuse to acccept help. LOL. how sad, human beings can see a NEED for their money to go towards asthetic and material things like roads and public transportation but thumb their nose at the thought of their money going to help feed families or provide shelter for children.

It is true, I dont have that kind of 'pride'. I have helped others in need plenty of times and it is a a good feeling and I dont feel too SPECIAL to accept the help of others when I am in need.

People know very little about my situation and only know that I am in need and on assistance, and from that 'difference between the two of us and you' is that you have not yet been in MY shoes as I have not been in yours.

I could sit here and rail you and ask where your sense of parenting is when you LEAVE your daughter to 'pay your bills', but you see that is also a 'difference between the two of us and you', besides that ANDY has no children to support making his situation one that is ENTIRELY different than mine(if I only had to support myself Id spend 16 hours a day at two jobs, why not?), I know each persons life has differet PRIORITIES. Im not judging where other parents put theirs if they are doing the best they can for their kids and as a parent I find it amazing that ANY parent looks down on another parent doing their best.

as I said, my ('handouts' as you call them) my tax investment is being put to good use right now helping me provide for my child and I guarantee that she will barely remember this brief period that we are in need as she is only three. And like her brother who is now attending COLLEGE in Georgia, I am sure she will grow up well taken care of (by me), respectful of her parents and elders, healthy and happy and hard working. Thats how the women in my family do it. I have no 'generational' welfare in my family. The women have ALL been college educated and worked to support their families and I am no exception to the family trend. When I get to be 70 and can look back on my life, my 'pride' will be in tact when I remember that ONE year that I needed some help.


I hope the high horse others ride on never 'runs out' on them in such a way that they need a little help,,,

Well, here is a little shock to your reasoning, when I needed the help it WASN'T THERE. When I was turned down for unemployment when I was desperate and needed the help they turned me down for a whole host of BS reasons like "We haven't got the funding" and "WE cannot do anything for you becasue of your job training."

I didn't bang my head against their wall of BS and changing excuses. Back then Affirmative Action was in FULL swing. I got turned down for job after job so I found work that wasn't what I wanted but I was able to pay my bills again.

So what other feels good garbage would you like to feed me now?

It is reasoning like yours and Dragonesse's that have turned the system into a total clusterfuque!

You can't offer help without strings attached that prevent people from taking advantage of "emergency assistance." That is the same as letting your kids play with fire extinguishers and when you need them they are empty!

Actually andy, whats driving the drug trade in mexico are all the US buyers....capitalism, what a wonderful invention....

The former soviet union was spent out of existence because it couldnt keep up with the HUGE bloated military budget the US had...

ah well...at least I live in a country where the poor are just poor...not evil for being poor

But do not forget that under Communism Russia suffered from FAR worst corruption and that the Government that was supposed to suppress corruption became the very evil that Communism was supposed to do away with. Crime was also very rampant during those days more so than present day Russia.

It was more than outspending Russia that allowed us to beat them in the Cold War. Part of the credit goes to Levis jeans, Rock Music, Our cinema, Disneyland, and the perception of the liberties under the law we had they didn't have.

Russia could not fund itself becasue the money flow was flooding the top tiers while the rest of Russia had to put up with what their government said they should have. The will and desire to achieve was stripped of the Russian people by its own government. Russia is struggling now but I think they are doing better than before under Communism.

I am not against poor individuals. I am against the concept of "poor." I live among them as one. I am trying hard to rise above. Why should I share my hard work with drug addicts and sh**heads who feel they are entitled to welfare because? THEY are the ones I hate on many levels. Yes I hate them! I hate worthless people. I hate laziness and whining!

I have seen times where I see some poor bastard struggling like hell to make ends meet and I feel pity for them and will help when I can and not with financial handouts either. I have done my share of car repairs for people who could not afford them at all to help keep them in their crappy jobs so they could pay their bills with no expectations of repayment. I have done a lot of other volunteer actions that I did with no expectation of repay or reward becasue I have a sense of community I do not see very much in America any more.

Why does everything have to be about hand outs? Why does the government have to come to the rescue? If your boat springs a leak are you going to pick up a bucket and start bailing or are you going to climb to the top of the tallest part of the boat and wave frantically hoping someone else will bail it out for you?

Like i have said before I am sick and tired of hearing the Victim Complex speak out about how the poor struggling masses this and poor starving children that. SHAME ON POOR PEOPLE FOR BRINGING CHILDREN INTO THE MESS THEY ARE IN! I am so sick and tired of it all.


Now what drives the drug trade? Desire for the product! Why are drugs popular? It is a quick easy escape! In a real world situation where it was a Predator Prey relationship all these drug addicts would be Mountain Lion Chow leaving a lot of cracked out spun and tweaked out predators. But mankind has bent the environment to our will so the predator prey relationship of nature has been disturbed. Do you think if a bear seen a crack addict if it would care as long as the spun monkey was an easy kill? Hell no. the bear would probably be looking for Spaghetti Sauce for his next victim's entrails! After all to a bear we are just Spaghetti Dinner!

Have you been to Mexico? I have. Parts of it are real nice but the rest of it? GWAR summed it up with the name of one of their albums, "This Toilet Earth!" Then again I have seen places in California that are likewise total Sh** holes but no one seems to show that side of America. More often than not poor people victimize one another more than people who work for a living. People always seem to look for the easiest way out.

I don't smoke pot to escape. I smoke pot to make all of this BS tolerable! That is supposed to be legal here in CA now.

Now here is a thought, if our law enforcement was so good don't you think they would be able to win this fight? HELL NO! If they did away with all of the bad guys why would we need them around any more? Things are the way they are becasue everyone on BOTH sides of the fence on the war on drugs is profiting from it some how!

Poor people are not poor when they have NON VICTIM ethics, a sense of community, and a sense of order. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as there are regulations in place to protect against BS like predatory lending. Look at what we got for all the deregulation and privatization!

I take it you are under some impression Socialism is better some how?

Now how about Human Nature? What do you really know about that?

Human Nature can be boiled down to Animal Nature but god forbid we should acknowledge we are animals too! Like Pigs we tear up everything around us!

so, your opposition to it stems from being turned down for it,,,interesting


guess what, My husband was turned down for immigration, but I still support immigration laws, I just wish they were applied equally

also interesting assumption that not getting the jobs you applied to had to do with AA,, all the jobs I apply for now I am also not getting,, is that because of AA or the ECONOMY?

the help is my own investment that I have paid into for 21 years, it has a limit based upon how much I and my employers have paid,, thats the INCENTIVE, when my 'help' is gone its gone


if I were single, I would gladly rent a room for 300 a month and work minimum wage if thats what it took

but when you have children they need your PRESENCE and guidance and protection, not just your money,, so I unfortunately DONT have the SAME options you might have had,,,or have

Id like someone to tell me , is it better to be a 'scorned' heart than a 'bleeding' one?

And why was he denied admission as a citizen???


Even I say life is unfair but why make it more unfair?


Trying to make the play field even for all is not the answer the way so many bleeding hearts want it.

People need to account for themselves. I was not just denied, I was cut down on my appeal and each time the answers changed. they also denied me retraining too. Seems some minorities needed the funds to retrain more than me becasue I had training in a field that was dying.

Since I was told to fend for myself by the system so I am.It is hard and it sucks. Friends of mine have helped me and likewise I try to help them. And I am supposed to feel sympathy for the masses why?

Just becasue I am supposed to be such a cheerful and giving person?

Exactly how much am I supposed to give?

I was talking about YOU.

he was denied because they felt others were more WORTHY or DEPENDABLE, and had set guidelines to make that determination

just like training resources are usually dispersed to the neediest,,according to whomever

did they only retrain minorities? NO OTHER white people got retrained? hard to believe,, and hard to prove,,,but anyway

should you feel sympathy for the masses

nah,in fact 2 percent of the population that is on assistance is FAR from the masses, but its nice to here people admit they NEEDED HELP, now if they can just stop feeling like the HELP they received was more legitimate than public assistance for those who didnt have such FRIENDS to help,,,

In other words he didn't have any special skills, training, or a work related sponsor??? These are things that would have had a great impact on any decision making.


My problem with the whole issue over the poor is it is used as a blanket grab for sympathy votes. It is a play on ignorance of the depth of the problem. People need incentive. Without it people will not do anything.

Humanity has a long way to go before I can even think of us as any more evolved than Chimpanzees. Religion now feeds us lies and BS instead of providing a moral compass like it used to. Man is beginning to grow past religion. unfortunately in the transition people become empowered to think they can get away with anything. I am poor but motivated to achieve and get past the debt cycle. I yearn to be solvent again! But how many of the poor likewise share my desires and are willing to do what it takes to legitimately get ahead? Many people resort to gambling and drug dealing to get ahead. How many people do bad things for a dollar?

I am sick of the Marxist/Socialist "HELP THE POOR" BS. We need to reform the system and encourage people to work. People have to get off of this whole Victim Complex thinking. poor people will pull others into being poor. Greedy idiots with a little money get scammed or blow it all on investment opportunities without doing any research becasue they want the easy money and will take stupid chances to get it. You give a bum $100 and the first place they go is to the local drug dealer and the liquor store and call up some Crack Whores in that order!

There are "lurkers" (bums) in all societies. Then there are addicts and Alcoholics. Past that you then run into Transients who are like gypsies but here we call them Trailer Trash and other sundry names. Then you have working class people struggling to get ahead. THEY are the ones who need help. Not the a fore mentioned classes of "Poor" people.


America has no responsibility at large to save people from themselves. Sad but true. People need to learn to do for themselves and tighten belts. Americans do not handle poverty well at all. We pull all these knee jerk reactions rather than facing the problem form more than one angle.

Everything CANNOT be solved with money no matter how much any one wants to believe that. In real life money is a HUMAN concept and really is more imaginary than anything else.

It just blows me away how people work so hard to accumulate PAPER! When your azz is fleeing a tsunami money can't save you. When there is a natural disaster and there suddenly is no food money sure cannot do anything to make it grow faster than nature allows.

It is not lack of money that makes people poor, it is people that make themselves poor!

I bet you want to tell me I make is sound so simple...

Really, the issue is not that easy but again money does not make people poor...


And money will not solve the problem. If it did welfare would be working.

anyone trying to help themself is worthy of a helping hand in my book

for those not making any EFFORT , that is a different story

but most of the poor in this country do work, and are still poor

and blaming the poor does very little to fix the issues that are leading to their poverty, it just causes more division and attempts to belittle people when they are down,,,,,

This isn't about blame, its about whining! it isn't about belittling people when they are down, it is about all the excuses people come up with to justify the position they are in.

Again, job sucks? Find another. Need training? GET IT AND QUIT BITCHING!

WAY too many people milk their benefits like they are on some kind of Government sponsored sabbatical.

Then all these "Poor" Immigrants flood our country and make the problem even worst! On top of that what justifies them having four, five, and six kids?

THOSE are my issues!

It IS easy for me to have these issues becasue I am living the nightmare but I am working to get out of it. Not depending on a government that is not there for me. Try feeling like you have been disenfranchised by the very same government that for years I was told was supposed to be there for me.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what your country HAS DONE to you. I have spelled it out before.

Poor unskilled immigrants need not apply. We have enough poor unskilled losers here already! Come to this country with something to offer other than a bunch of kids and a pair of hands! Otherwise fix your own God damn country! Stop waiting for us to do it for you!

its not about blame? its either about blame or scorned hearts,,take your pick

Most welfare recipients and recipients of Unemployment milk it to the very end



"fuque the poor" but I am not supposed to here

This is America and I don't buy this whole "Poor People" BS.

Most (about a good 60 to 75%) of the people on welfare have no motivation to do anything to better their situation.

Now, why don't you have a job? I have no pride when it comes to supporting my daughter and showing her the right way to live her life by example.

And you should be ashamed of yourself, a single mother can paddle her own canoe, why can't you? Get off your butts and be part of the solution and not the problem. Think of all the kids who could go to college and not have to worry about having a job too. Just get the grades. You lazy outfits! GET UP!

Takes two to tango, and if a woman lets a man into her bed she had better be ready to deal with the consequences rather than dump an unwanted pregnancy on the guy and expect him to take it well.

...grow you a pair and start swinging with the big boys...or you will ALWAYS be part of the problem and NOT part of the solution.


And you know something you might just discover that you can regain alot of the self respect that you left behind there somewhere when you adjust your standards to reality and start working

try raising the child without the handouts...then there will be a gal in Vegas I would be very proud of

But the biggest difference between the two of us and you? We can look ourselves in the mirror much easier.

It is reasoning like yours and Dragonesse's that have turned the system into a total clusterfuque!



wow, goes to show how the way we treat people trickles down, I wonder what views people would have if they werent themselves 'turned' down for assistance of some sort ?

? ? ? ? ? ?


Wha???



WOW, I wonder how people take it when told one thing but have to deal with the complete opposite?

"We're here to help," but then "Go away, we can't help you."

Here is a song for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZpaNJqF4po

Wow, I must say that this is the first time that I've seen somebody get bullied because they lost their job in this recession.

as I said, been through that too with immigration

and employment agencies


still hasnt left me feeling above those who werent turned away though

So you use this thinking to justify the hypocrisy of the system and supporting the undeserving and worthless trailer trash?

Yeah I was turned down and turned down at every turn for help when I needed it. F the whining crybabies who feel they deserve entitlements. F the poor! Career welfare warriors SUCK!