Topic: Blame the tool or blame the person using it?
metalwing's photo
Tue 06/08/10 04:22 PM
Personal ownership of a gun has been confirmed by the Supreme Court and is a right given by the US Constitution. It should not be subject to the opinions of anyone as to "what is right". Felons are excluded as part of the punishment for being a felon.

If the gun laws were enforced there would be few problems with guns, just like if the immigration laws were enforced there would be few problems with immigration.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 04:27 PM


As long as those who want to have a gun can go through a thorough mental exam, have no misdemeanors or felonies on their record especially anything related to violence, have no affiliations with any militant or anti government group and understand that if their gun gets stolen they can have no new ones until they get their own gun back. I have no issue with guns if this can be applied.

Since accidents happen were the bearer of the gun doesn't intend for it to go off and it does, guns do kill without their operators permission.

This is still a political thread.


I like these ideas too dragonnes,, but pro gun advocates will still argue (understandably) that this still will not keep the criminals from having guns,,,


Understood.

Criminals use all kinds of weapons, most of them psychological, to take advantage of their victims. In most cases guns are not used for protection in crimes making the philosophy of guns making people safer simply untrue for the most part. I have seen legal gun users intimidate others with their gun to get their way making them no better than a criminal without a legal gun.

The people who sell guns are behind all the information out there about guns so none of it is trustworthy information.

sherry4382's photo
Tue 06/08/10 04:33 PM



As long as those who want to have a gun can go through a thorough mental exam, have no misdemeanors or felonies on their record especially anything related to violence, have no affiliations with any militant or anti government group and understand that if their gun gets stolen they can have no new ones until they get their own gun back. I have no issue with guns if this can be applied.

Since accidents happen were the bearer of the gun doesn't intend for it to go off and it does, guns do kill without their operators permission.

This is still a political thread.


I like these ideas too dragonnes,, but pro gun advocates will still argue (understandably) that this still will not keep the criminals from having guns,,,


Understood.

Criminals use all kinds of weapons, most of them psychological, to take advantage of their victims. In most cases guns are not used for protection in crimes making the philosophy of guns making people safer simply untrue for the most part. I have seen legal gun users intimidate others with their gun to get their way making them no better than a criminal without a legal gun.

The people who sell guns are behind all the information out there about guns so none of it is trustworthy information.


I bet if someone broke in your house while you and your two children were sleeping, you would want a gun for protection..happened to me and you can bet your azz i own a gun and if you think you can change my mind about guns, its not going to happen!! No matter what criminals will still get gund if its legal or not, where does that leave the law abiding citizens???? In a gun fight with no gun!!

Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 04:38 PM
When people have done things to me, I didn't have a gun and I won at least half of the time if not more so a gun is not needed to protect yourself.

What we need to protect ourselves is a brain.

A brain outweighs everything as a weapon.

Some idiot with a gun is no match for a person who can out think and outsmart them.

We should be more worried about a smart criminal than one who thinks a gun gives them an advantage.

willing2's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:37 PM

I bet if someone broke in your house while you and your two children were sleeping, you would want a gun for protection..happened to me and you can bet your azz i own a gun and if you think you can change my mind about guns, its not going to happen!! No matter what criminals will still get gund if its legal or not, where does that leave the law abiding citizens???? In a gun fight with no gun!!

drinker smitten smitten smitten smitten smitten flowers

no photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:41 PM
Edited by Kings_Knight on Tue 06/08/10 05:43 PM

When people have done things to me, I didn't have a gun and I won at least half of the time if not more so a gun is not needed to protect yourself.

What we need to protect ourselves is a brain.

A brain outweighs everything as a weapon.

Some idiot with a gun is no match for a person who can out think and outsmart them.

We should be more worried about a smart criminal than one who thinks a gun gives them an advantage.


Wow. An oxymoron is born ... 'smart criminal' ... heh-heh-heh ... all the other stuff is (a) pap, and (b) platitude ... As for the 'brain' protecting someone - Next time someone all jacked up on crack or speed or PCP is comin' at you with a knife, why, just see how effective that ol' brain thing is in neutralizing the threat ...

The Supreme Court has found that the Second Amendment confers an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to firearms ownership ... it's not debatable anymore.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:43 PM
But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.

no photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:44 PM
Edited by Kings_Knight on Tue 06/08/10 05:45 PM

But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.

USmale47374's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:44 PM
Not all gun users are bad people; not all bad people use guns as their weapons of choice; however, many people suffer or die from the improper, often criminal use of guns. Many people who commit violent crimes with guns do so impulsively. If they were forced to contemplate their crimes before committing them, many would change their minds. Most of those who wouldn't would commit their crimes regarless of the weapon used.

Guns, primarily handguns, are potentially lethal, easy to use weapons that criminals find ideal to commit their crimes. Guns are a usually easy way to intimiate their victims, but not all victims are intimidated. Some are infurated and fight back--it's fight or flight, you know. At that point in time, the would-be criminal becomes a potential victim himself, fighting back in the most expeditious manner available--he pulls the trigger, often killing or maiming the person who was merely trying to protect himself/herself. And how does this instant criminal repay the person he had just killed or maimed? He can't, even if he wants to.

The real problem here is that no one can predict who will use a gun improperly, hence the push toward gun control. It seems like a reasonable way to minimize the improper use of guns. That move, however, should be accompanied by much stricter laws to punish their misuse. If would-be crinimal knew in advance that just possessing a gun would result in a life sentence, he might be less likely to have a gun at all, don't you think? The same goes for careless parents whose children find a way to obtain their guns and ammunition.

I'm very much in favor of handgun control and much stricter laws to punish the law breakers.


Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:47 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Tue 06/08/10 05:48 PM


But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.



Legally is the operative word. Legally many less will have guns legally because I will continue to fight for more restrictions on who can have guns and so will all those who are like me and know that it is a privilege and not a right.

no photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:47 PM

" ... I'm very much in favor of handgun control and much stricter laws to punish the law breakers. ... "


And HOW MANY MORE 'laws' would you like to add to the more than 20,000 already on the books that are NOT enforced?

franshade's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:48 PM
saying that guns kill people is like saying pencils make spelling errors :wink:

no photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:48 PM



But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.



I will continue to fight for more restrictions on who can have guns and so will all those who are like me and know that it is a privilege and not a right.


And all of us who know better will be right there to oppose you ...

Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:50 PM

saying that guns kill people is like saying pencils make spelling errors :wink:


Pencils cannot go off when dropped.

Pencils cannot go off if a child picks them up.

Pencils cannot go off because they malfunctioned.

Guns can kill without their operators permission.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:51 PM




But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.



I will continue to fight for more restrictions on who can have guns and so will all those who are like me and know that it is a privilege and not a right.


And all of us who know better will be right there to oppose you ...


There will be more of me than the others. Because we have to get smarter than the need for guns.

franshade's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:53 PM


saying that guns kill people is like saying pencils make spelling errors :wink:


Pencils cannot go off when dropped.

Pencils cannot go off if a child picks them up.

Pencils cannot go off because they malfunctioned.

Guns can kill without their operators permission.

same with knives

yes pencils can stab your foot when dropped
pencils can be used by another as a weapon
pencils can malfunction when not sharpened
Pencils can kill without permission - all it takes is malicious intent.


Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:56 PM



saying that guns kill people is like saying pencils make spelling errors :wink:


Pencils cannot go off when dropped.

Pencils cannot go off if a child picks them up.

Pencils cannot go off because they malfunctioned.

Guns can kill without their operators permission.

same with knives

yes pencils can stab your foot when dropped
pencils can be used by another as a weapon
pencils can malfunction when not sharpened
Pencils can kill without permission - all it takes is malicious intent.




Not the same because a knife cannot go off by itself and a gun can.

franshade's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:56 PM





But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.



I will continue to fight for more restrictions on who can have guns and so will all those who are like me and know that it is a privilege and not a right.


And all of us who know better will be right there to oppose you ...


There will be more of me than the others. Because we have to get smarter than the need for guns.


shockedyikes, this does not apply to me, cuz I done there be pretty dog gone smart! shocked:wink:

Agree we all have to get smarter, but that has nothing to do with our right to bear arms.
Those that oppose should not bear arms.
Those that agree and chose to can bear arms.

franshade's photo
Tue 06/08/10 05:59 PM




saying that guns kill people is like saying pencils make spelling errors :wink:


Pencils cannot go off when dropped.

Pencils cannot go off if a child picks them up.

Pencils cannot go off because they malfunctioned.

Guns can kill without their operators permission.

same with knives

yes pencils can stab your foot when dropped
pencils can be used by another as a weapon
pencils can malfunction when not sharpened
Pencils can kill without permission - all it takes is malicious intent.




Not the same because a knife cannot go off by itself and a gun can.

a gun only misfires at the manufacturers error, owners error, by an inexperienced handler - not by chance :wink: jmo

same can be applied to a pencil, a knife, a pen, etc.

when someone wants to harm another it will be done.

(not saying it's right or wrong)

but it is my right - what right are you willing to give up amongst the many that are slowly but surely being taken from us.


Dragoness's photo
Tue 06/08/10 06:01 PM






But it doesn't say we can't say who can and who can't have them. I say we limit it to only those who deserve the privilege of a gun.


EVERYONE who is legally able to own and use a firearm has the RIGHT to own a firearm.

It is a RIGHT - it is NOT a 'privilege'. A Drivers License is a privilege and is revocable. RIGHTS are NOT revocable.



I will continue to fight for more restrictions on who can have guns and so will all those who are like me and know that it is a privilege and not a right.


And all of us who know better will be right there to oppose you ...


There will be more of me than the others. Because we have to get smarter than the need for guns.


shockedyikes, this does not apply to me, cuz I done there be pretty dog gone smart! shocked:wink:

Agree we all have to get smarter, but that has nothing to do with our right to bear arms.
Those that oppose should not bear arms.
Those that agree and chose to can bear arms.


We will become more enlightened than the need to have a gun for protection as we grow and evolve. Our psyche will out grow the archaic ideal of guns give us power one day.

Until then we need to keep the restriction as tight as possible to eliminate those legal gun users who abuse the privilege.