Topic: Open Letter To Pres. Obama From Michael Moore
AndrewAV's photo
Wed 12/02/09 03:47 PM






His product is a "selective documentary" for lack of a better term where the only side shown is the one you want to show. It is therefore, not a documentary and is an entertainment film. By the way, Sicko netted (as in profits) over $25 million. His latest grossed almost $15 million.

Farenheit 9/11... over $215 million dollars NET. two hundred fifteen f'n million! How can you be so blind as to not see they hypocrisy of a guy that makes that kind of money (yes, I understand he didn't take all of it) sitting there saying our system of capitalism is fatally flawed? That very system has made him a multimillionaire. he whines incessantly about that "top 1%" but he is in that top 1%!


However, Limbaugh ******* and moans about everything the liberals and "drive by media" do but he actually sticks to his guns and doesn't take advantage of the liberal programs for the most part.


Either way, they're both wrong and both brainwash many, but at least Limbaugh isn't bitching about the very system that is making him rich.


You forgot to mention how much Rush Limbaugh makes or have , and I'm sure he is not having sleepless nights about the bills lining up on the table.

Either way, one left one right.....they are making a killing on the support of their own fans.. again...instead of thinking for themselves, millions just parrot what they say, because they are unable to add 1+1 together by themselves.

And again, I blame the people , regardless left or right, it's their problem if they have aligned themselves with one side and can't keep an open mind. Follow one side like a dogma, or worship various celebrities and loudmouth radiohosts and self-declared "experts"- neither of them Rush or Moore or any other out there has any expertise on political or social studies, while the ones who do have and hold Phd-s, and decades of experience are ignored, thanks to these loud mouth- profiteers.
Keep listening to one or the other, later have a civil war..I don't care. The people get a government of what they deserve, let it be the cruelest or the best.




The argument I'm making has nothing to do with the relative income, only that while Limbaugh makes millions in the system (capitalism) that he supports, Moore too makes millions and claims so much to hate the very system he has exploited to gain that wealth. To clarify, I have no issues with someone making a couple hundred million on a movie they produce.

But this post is spot on otherwise. drinker


Michael doesn't hate the system. I have yet to see him show hatred for the system.
Showing what can be ugly about the system I would accept, showing hatred no.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JKD2JrzP0Q


While his latest movie technically sounds like he fully supports capitalism (i.e. no giving money to all these big businesses) it is in reality that he just speaks out more against big business than capitalism. He has often spoken out saying the rich need to pay more of their earnings to benefit the poor. That, is against capitalism.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:40 PM
One day a soldier is going to recognize Micheal moore and stomp him to a bloddy pulp.I am so sick of him I can't even stomach reading all of his "Mommy knows best" letter.

Hey Moore!You voted for him idiot!It's your own fault.You campaigned for him.Deal with it.Get a clue.He has been running this war since Feb.How moore hasn't been charged with treason by now and sent to the gallows is beyond me.All of his bickering,complaining,protests,and threats of impeachment has accomplished ZERO.He hasn't made the slightest bit of difference and never will.

Give it up Micheal.Your a washed up Jane fonda in the back of yesterdays newspaper.

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:41 PM

Amen Michael.

Obama's speech sounded strangly similar to Bush. laugh

Yes, we have a new 'war president'. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Endless war for endless peace?


Bush's speech on what?
Iraq?

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Bush ignored Afghanistan for his personal interests.
When he left office there were only 38,000 US troops in Afghanistan.
Under funded, under equipped, and unreinforced.
Neglected!

Dragoness's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:43 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Wed 12/02/09 04:43 PM







His product is a "selective documentary" for lack of a better term where the only side shown is the one you want to show. It is therefore, not a documentary and is an entertainment film. By the way, Sicko netted (as in profits) over $25 million. His latest grossed almost $15 million.

Farenheit 9/11... over $215 million dollars NET. two hundred fifteen f'n million! How can you be so blind as to not see they hypocrisy of a guy that makes that kind of money (yes, I understand he didn't take all of it) sitting there saying our system of capitalism is fatally flawed? That very system has made him a multimillionaire. he whines incessantly about that "top 1%" but he is in that top 1%!


However, Limbaugh ******* and moans about everything the liberals and "drive by media" do but he actually sticks to his guns and doesn't take advantage of the liberal programs for the most part.


Either way, they're both wrong and both brainwash many, but at least Limbaugh isn't bitching about the very system that is making him rich.


You forgot to mention how much Rush Limbaugh makes or have , and I'm sure he is not having sleepless nights about the bills lining up on the table.

Either way, one left one right.....they are making a killing on the support of their own fans.. again...instead of thinking for themselves, millions just parrot what they say, because they are unable to add 1+1 together by themselves.

And again, I blame the people , regardless left or right, it's their problem if they have aligned themselves with one side and can't keep an open mind. Follow one side like a dogma, or worship various celebrities and loudmouth radiohosts and self-declared "experts"- neither of them Rush or Moore or any other out there has any expertise on political or social studies, while the ones who do have and hold Phd-s, and decades of experience are ignored, thanks to these loud mouth- profiteers.
Keep listening to one or the other, later have a civil war..I don't care. The people get a government of what they deserve, let it be the cruelest or the best.




The argument I'm making has nothing to do with the relative income, only that while Limbaugh makes millions in the system (capitalism) that he supports, Moore too makes millions and claims so much to hate the very system he has exploited to gain that wealth. To clarify, I have no issues with someone making a couple hundred million on a movie they produce.

But this post is spot on otherwise. drinker


Michael doesn't hate the system. I have yet to see him show hatred for the system.
Showing what can be ugly about the system I would accept, showing hatred no.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JKD2JrzP0Q


While his latest movie technically sounds like he fully supports capitalism (i.e. no giving money to all these big businesses) it is in reality that he just speaks out more against big business than capitalism. He has often spoken out saying the rich need to pay more of their earnings to benefit the poor. That, is against capitalism.


Trying too hard here.

That is still not hatred at all. Nor is it against the system.

Rich capitalist here state they should pay more because of their advantage. Read Buffet.

Atlantis75's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:48 PM
Hey check these out:

Burger King or McDonalds?
Coke or Pepsi?
Republican or Democrat?

These questions always come up..but if you know better none of them are good for your health.

msharmony's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:50 PM

Hey check these out:

Burger King or McDonalds?
Coke or Pepsi?
Republican or Democrat?

These questions always come up..but if you know better none of them are good for your health.


Noone is right all the time and noone is perfect. I still have great respect and admiration for Obama and Moore though,,,,Rush is a different story, but to each their own.

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 04:58 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Wed 12/02/09 04:59 PM

Hey check these out:

Burger King or McDonalds?
Coke or Pepsi?
Republican or Democrat?

These questions always come up..but if you know better none of them are good for your health.


The government in the US is never going to be fixed in one Presidential Term. Let alone 11 months.
Maybe not even in 4 terms.

Right now the important thing is to pick the least dangerous of the two evils and stay on course.

The least dangerous is the Democrats.
Neither are completely harmless. but the Republican Party is a corrupt, extremely power-hungry, organized, lying, anti-American danger.

Rid the political landscape of them first. If the Democrats don't learn that the people have regained power by then, then we eliminate them as well.

There are 7 political parties in America. We dont have to put up with the two major parties BS.


Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:06 PM
If you want Wash to get the message and make real change, then quit reelecting the same idiots time after time.
If we do then they will start paying attention to the people!

heavenlyboy34's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:08 PM

Hey check these out:

Burger King or McDonalds?
Coke or Pepsi?
Republican or Democrat?

These questions always come up..but if you know better none of them are good for your health.


well said! drinker

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:14 PM
<-----Anti Incumbant!
<-----Anti Republican!
<-----Unaffiliated!

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:27 PM


Amen Michael.

Obama's speech sounded strangly similar to Bush. laugh

Yes, we have a new 'war president'. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Endless war for endless peace?


Bush's speech on what?
Iraq?

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Bush ignored Afghanistan for his personal interests.
When he left office there were only 38,000 US troops in Afghanistan.
Under funded, under equipped, and unreinforced.
Neglected!


http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq.info/index.html#Iraq_and_a_History_of_Terrorism


The U.S. Department of State's 1995 Patterns of Global Terrorism report stated, "Iraq continues to provide haven and training facilities for several terrorist clients. Abu Abbas' Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) maintains its headquarters in Baghdad. The Abu Nidal organization (ANO) continues to have an office in Baghdad. The Arab Liberation Front (ALF), headquartered in Baghdad, continues to receive funding from Saddam's regime. Iraq also continues to host the former head of the now-defunct 15 May organization, Abu Ibrahim, who masterminded several bombings of US aircraft."

Throughout the 1990's the U.S. Department of State listed Iraq as a country known to sponsor international terrorism. The Department of State's 1994 Patterns of Global Terrorism report stated, "Since 1991, in violation of UN Security Council resolutions, the Government of Iraq has obstructed the international community's provision of humanitarian assistance. We believe that Iraq is responsible for more than 100 attacks on relief personnel and aid convoys over the past four years. Moreover, the Government of Iraq has offered monetary 'bounties' to anyone who assassinates UN and other international relief workers."


During the 1992 presidential campaign, Al Gore criticized the first Bush administration for its "blatant disregard" of Iraq's ties to terrorism. On September 29, 1992 Al Gore said, "The Reagan-Bush administration was also prepared to overlook the fact that the terrorists who masterminded the attack on the Achille Lauro and the savage murder of American Leon Klinghoffer, fled with Iraqi assistance. Nor did it seem to matter that the team of terrorists who set out to blow up the Rome airport came directly from Baghdad with suitcase bombs." Al Gore went on to say, "There might have been a moment's pause for reflection when Iraqi aircraft intentionally attacked the USS Stark in May of 1987 killing 37 sailors, but the administration smoothed it over very fast."

Saddam Hussein paid $25,000 bonuses to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. "President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000," Iraq's deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz declared on March 11, 2002. Mahmoud Besharat, who dispensed these funds across the West Bank, gratefully said: "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."

After the fall of Saddam's government, coalition forces found and destroyed a terrorist training camp located near Baghdad called Salman Pak. This terrorist training camp featured an airplane fuselage where Iraqi defectors had earlier reported foreign terrorists were being trained in hijacking aircraft


On September 12, 1996, National Public Radio interviewed a former CIA chief of counter-terrorism who said Iraq might have been a state sponsor behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. NPR pointed out that Ramzi Ahmed Yousef came to the United States with an Iraqi passport and also reported that indicted co-conspirator Abdul Rahman Yasin was currently living in Baghdad


Thomas3474's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:36 PM
On August 27, 1998 NPR's Mike Shuster reported that US justification for destroying a pharmaceutical factory in the Sudan had shifted from focusing on links to Saudi dissent Osama bin Laden, to alleged Iraqi chemical weapons experts believed to have been working in the Sudan to avoid UN weapons inspections in their homeland. US officials said Iraqi technicians came to the Sudan soon after Iraq's defeat in the Gulf War to continue their work on chemical weapons in Sudanese pharmaceutical plants.

In an August 3, 1999 interview, Richard Butler, former chief weapons inspector for UNSCOM, said that Saddam Hussein had an "addiction" for weapons of mass destruction.


On November 25, 2001 The Washington Post wrote an article with details regarding Iraq's germ warfare program. According to the article, U.N. weapons inspectors got their first glimpse of Iraq's biological weapons program during an August 1991 inspection of Salman Pak, one of Iraq's premier biological weapons facilities. Iraqi documents later obtained by the United Nations indicated that Baghdad subsequently filled more than 50 bombs and missile warheads with a liquid form of anthrax. The Washington Post also reported that Iraq acknowledged producing at least 19,000 liters of botulinum toxin, using more than half to fill at least 116 bombs and missile warheads.

On November 20, 1997 the New York Times reported that no arms inspections had taken place in Iraq since October 29 when Baghdad threatened to expel Americans on the monitoring teams. The Times also reported that the head of the United Nations inspection team recently went to the Security Council with photographs and documents demonstrating that Iraq continued to pose a threat in almost every area of weapons development. The photographs showed a convoy of trucks entering and leaving a factory after inspectors indicated it was a site they wished to visit. As an example of how Iraq changed its accounting, a chemical weapons expert said that in 1995 Iraq admitted to having made 160 kilograms of VX nerve agent. Then Iraq altered its figures to 240 kilograms, then to 1,250 kilograms. By June 1996, the Iraqis acknowledged they produced at least 3.9 tons of VX.


On March 26, 1997 Secretary of State Madeleine Albright proclaimed, "the evidence is overwhelming that Saddam Hussein's intentions will never be peaceful." In a major foreign policy speech at Georgetown University the Secretary of State was highly critical of the Iraqi dictator. "Consider that Iraq admitted producing chemical and biological warfare agents before the Gulf War that were sufficiently lethal to kill every man, woman and child on earth. Consider that Iraq has yet to provide convincing evidence that it has destroyed all of these weapons. Consider that Iraq admitted loading many of those agents into missile warheads before the war. Consider that Iraq retains more than 7,500 nuclear scientists and technicians, as well as technical documents related to the production of nuclear weapons. Consider that Iraq has been caught trying to smuggle in missile guidance instruments. And consider that according to Ambassador Ekeus, UNSCOM has not been able to account for all the missiles acquired over the years. In fact, Ekeus believes that it is highly likely that Iraq retains an operational Scud missile force, probably with chemical or biological weapons to go with it."


On April 3, 1990, four months prior to the invasion of Kuwait, the Los Angeles Times reported, "Iraqi President Saddam Hussein declared Monday that his military machine has nerve gas and the means to deliver it, threatening to destroy 'half of Israel' if it attacks Iraqi targets." The LA Times also reported that, the week prior, five Iraqi agents were arrested in London attempting to smuggle nuclear triggering devices to Baghdad.

It is estimated that the Iran/Iraq war cost the two sides a million casualties. Iraq used chemical weapons in that war extensively from 1984. Some twenty thousand Iranians were killed by mustard gas, and the nerve agents tabun and sarin. This marked the first time a country had been named for violating the 1925 Geneva Convention banning the use of chemical weapons


The Fedayeen (Uday Hussein's militia) assassinated opposition figures, broke the backs of those accused of lying to the government and chopped off tongues, fingers, hands and heads. Sometimes victims were decapitated and the heads were delivered to their families.


Human rights abuses under Saddam:

4000 prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib Prison in 1984.
3000 prisoners were executed at the Mahjar Prison between 1993 and 1998.
About 2500 prisoners were executed between 1997 and 1999 in a "prison cleansing" campaign.
122 male prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/ March 2000. A further 23 political prisoners were executed there in October 2001.
In October 2000, dozens of women accused of prostitution were beheaded without any judicial process. Some were accused for political reasons.
Women prisoners at Mahjar were routinely raped by their guards.
Methods of torture used in Iraqi jails include using electric drills to mutilate hands, pulling out fingernails, knife cuts, sexual attacks and 'official rape'.
Prisoners at the Qurtiyya Prison in Baghdad and elsewhere were kept in metal boxes the size of tea chests. If they did not confess they were left to die.

On July 8, 1982 Saddam Hussein drove into the city of Dujail, Iraq. After six men attempted to ambush the dictator, thousands of Dujail residents were thrown in jail and tortured. At least 148 men and boys were executed on orders signed by Saddam Hussein.

Saddam pursued a long-term program of persecuting the Iraqi Kurds, including the use of chemical weapons. During the Iran/Iraq war, Saddam appointed his cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, as his deputy in the north. In 1987-88, al-Majid led the "Anfal" campaign of attacks on Kurdish villages. Amnesty International estimates that more than 100,000 Kurds were killed or disappeared during this period.



Atlantis75's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:38 PM



Amen Michael.

Obama's speech sounded strangly similar to Bush. laugh

Yes, we have a new 'war president'. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Endless war for endless peace?


Bush's speech on what?
Iraq?

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Bush ignored Afghanistan for his personal interests.
When he left office there were only 38,000 US troops in Afghanistan.
Under funded, under equipped, and unreinforced.
Neglected!


http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq.info/index.html#Iraq_and_a_History_of_Terrorism




That report includes about 40 countries listed as ties with "terrorism"

Look:

http://fas.org/irp/threat/terror_95/index.html

Dragoness's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:43 PM
Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There were a lot of "misinformations" in those websites showing "reasons" for war in Iraq.

I will not go through all of them.

Just do not believe those sites they have an agenda to twist the information to fit something that is not accurate.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:50 PM

Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There were a lot of "misinformations" in those websites showing "reasons" for war in Iraq.

I will not go through all of them.

Just do not believe those sites they have an agenda to twist the information to fit something that is not accurate.



Well it would be a rarity and a first if you posted facts but as always get your opinion.I suppose Sadaam on tape threatning Isreal and United states with total destruction is just misinformation also?

You have at least a 100 high ranking officals to disaprove including Clinton on your phony facts.So lets here a few.And no a link to Moveon.org will not be cosidered.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 12/02/09 05:53 PM




Amen Michael.

Obama's speech sounded strangly similar to Bush. laugh

Yes, we have a new 'war president'. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Endless war for endless peace?


Bush's speech on what?
Iraq?

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Bush ignored Afghanistan for his personal interests.
When he left office there were only 38,000 US troops in Afghanistan.
Under funded, under equipped, and unreinforced.
Neglected!


http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq.info/index.html#Iraq_and_a_History_of_Terrorism




That report includes about 40 countries listed as ties with "terrorism"

Look:

http://fas.org/irp/threat/terror_95/index.html



And your point is what exactly?

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 07:33 PM

Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There were a lot of "misinformations" in those websites showing "reasons" for war in Iraq.

I will not go through all of them.

Just do not believe those sites they have an agenda to twist the information to fit something that is not accurate.


Smart Woman!drinker

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 07:35 PM
If they're there training now then they are doing so under sight and with permission of US Forces.

Fanta46's photo
Wed 12/02/09 07:35 PM
Common sense is a wonderful tool.

Dragoness's photo
Wed 12/02/09 07:39 PM


Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There were a lot of "misinformations" in those websites showing "reasons" for war in Iraq.

I will not go through all of them.

Just do not believe those sites they have an agenda to twist the information to fit something that is not accurate.



Well it would be a rarity and a first if you posted facts but as always get your opinion.I suppose Sadaam on tape threatning Isreal and United states with total destruction is just misinformation also?

You have at least a 100 high ranking officals to disaprove including Clinton on your phony facts.So lets here a few.And no a link to Moveon.org will not be cosidered.


Moveon is probably more factual than what you posted....lol

There has already been proof we were lied to to go to war. Where do you think those lies lie? In your websites of course.

You haven't proven anything yourself so pony up before you complain about me.