That's why I said there should be more programs to help people stay clean AFTER they get out of jail

Yep, I agree there..but there aren't. That why I posed the question in the first place..can we offer more rehab than just punishment? It seems not.

Does society really make it any easier for misdemeanors and felons to turn their life around? No, they don't. Background checks, stigmas, preconceptions make it almost impossible for these people to turn their lives around, go back to school, and get a job. Thus fulfilling the cycle of hopelessness, and they go back to comitting misdemeanors and felonies. Because of money and funding issues, rather than "healing" these people, they are released too soon from hospitals and treatment centers, and sadly go back to the same old behaviors. We as a society have stopped caring.

Hmmm...sink more money into jails or rehab centers? My opinion is neither. How about sinking the money into education instead, trying to prevent addiction and criminal activity before it starts? How about sinking money into re-establishing a sense of community and pride in having compassion, respect, and morality; not only for yourself but for your fellow man? Parents should be spending less money on Ipods and designer clothes trying to make their kids happy, and more time educating their children on the proper way to act, how to deal with emotions constructively, the difference between right and wrong, and how to be decent human beings.

Is there an easy answer? Nope. What do we do with the addicts now? The children of these addicts? Have hard working Americans dole out the majority of their paychecks to "help" those who are "addicted", either by paying for the jails or rehabs? As you stated, the problem is increasing exponentially...how many govt programs should we have to help "them"? And at whose expense? Is that not a step towards socialism?

The problem is two-fold. Our rights are being eroded with increasing laws established by an expanding govt that's controlled by the elite, and punishment isn't really punishment anymore. Jail is for many 3 hots and a cot, better conditions than they have on the streets as an addict. If jail REALLY sucked and you lost ALL your rights, maybe less people would be apt to break the laws. Punishment should fit the crime. I believe in the death penalty, an eye for an eye. Kill, be killed. Rob and steal, go to jail and lose everything you have, be made to do hard labor on bread and water rations. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions and if we must sink money into something, it should be the educational system or community based programs like Little League or the Boys and Girls clubs.

Sinking money into jails or rehabs seems like putting a band-aid on the wound, instead of treating the source of infliction. JMO

Addict.

Btw, there are waiting lists for rehabs.

The VA hospital rehab, where I once worked, changed their policies under Bush. It used to be a 4-5 week rehab. Now it's 14 days. That's not acceptable to me. If they relapse, they have to wait a year to get rehab again. There's also a waiting list.

Half-way houses are good after rehab. It can take months to get in one here.

Most of this thread is missing the fundamental issue-adult humans have the right to inject whatever substance into their body they desire, so long as they don't harm another in the process. Anti-drug laws are 1) unconsitutional 2) impractical 3) illogical 4) economically unsound and 5) immoral.

Rehabs are great, but they are a waste of money of space if the person doesn't want help or not ready for help. Until they are, rehab won't work and they are most likely to go back

I have been to both...jail did me alot better than rehab ever did.You cant stop using drugs unless you really want to,Usally people in rehab are there for all the wrong reasons,to please others rather than themselves.Most rehabs can easily be faked thru,the saying is fake it til you make it.Most rehabs are like a summer camp of sorts.Jail on the other hand gave me the harsh reality of life.Alot of freetime thinking about why your here and how to stay out of jail for good.Regardless no one is going to stop doing anything until they "grow up" and get a taste of the real world.The road to recovery starts with you,you have to really want it.I dont think anyone or place can make you stop unless you want to yourself.

You're completly missing the point. Most punishment doesn't equal the crime, such as when it involves different ethnicities...ever notice how the black guy gets three life sentences and the white guy gets 30 years? For identical crimes no less, the flaw within the system is that it is still governed by petty people with all the same fears. Crime in that sense propagates itself, because when the white guy gets out in 12 because of good behaviour, he will have the world at his doorstep for recovery (this is covered under 'rehabilitation programs') while the black guy will have to become accustomed to life on the outside all his own.

Same applies for hispanic or any other minority. The system is therefore flawed, in order to shame its inadequacy it is on the people to enact justice...and the first order is to do away with previous justice. Really kind of an anarchist creed, but it works well within its given guidelines. Democracy obviously doesn't work, nor does really any other government system...so why do we keep fighting for it? Why do we keep slamming it into other smaller countries?

You shove the same ideal down someones throat time and time again they will eventually choke. I figure if you cut out the middle man of the issue, the issue will resolve itself in time...keep the same petty punishment for the same worthless crime...rinse, wash, repeat.

No, if a crime was committed, for which they were sentenced to probation... they promised to abide by the rules of probation. If they broke those rules by using drugs...

That is like saying F-You to the judge, the whole legal system. I know FOR A FACT that if you go to your probation officer and say, I'm using. I need help... they will place them in treatment. But if you break the law under the influence that does NOT excuse the fact you broke the law. Prison is not for treatment and neither is it for rehabilitation. However, on the positive side it is much harder to find drugs in jail and less so in prison so that could be viewed as a jump start to sobriety and treatment.

I would like to say that I think drug addiction is a terrible thing. But it is NOT the job of the criminal justice system to fix it.

And the comment about minorities.... Are you taking into account prior legal history and juvenile history?

Hello,
I think and believe that we should spend the funds on a continued education. College degrees cost a lot less than jails, prisons, and some rehab places.
Just my thoughts...

Me? The minorities comment anyway...statistics. Typically a minority gets jail or prison time while a majority (white) gets slapped with a ticket and fine, depending on the offense of course. Murder will land anyone behind bars for life pretty much, but lands minorities behind bars quicker...that can really come down to money though, if you have enough you can prolong a case for years.

i don't understand why people are punished for what they do to their own body. even if it affects others the role of judgment is played out far more than it should. people will always make mistakes, instead of accepting this we established a caste system to degrade those as criminals and yet at the same time we cry to install humanity!? even in matters of life we remain inconsistent. either let people live or accept the remorse at the expense of their punishment.

Duane~

I can explain this. If you have prior offenses you get a harsher sentence. There are repeat violent offender specifications as well. The folks I see have felony after felony, starting at age 12 or so. They get slapped faster, yes, because they keep doing it. Don't let the stats fool you. Recidivism is RAMPANT.

I personally think the whole Rehab thing is a rip off. It is an illusion that we think we are somehow cureing the basic problems that made people use in the first place. Punishing parents and society with exhorbident charges for evaluations that tell little or nothing.

Bottom line IMHO either you choose to use drugs or you choose not to. Many addicts have been through drying out so it is not the withdrawal they fear it is the high they like and justify getting.

As long as the addict makes excuses for useing drugs and committing crimes to get them he deserves to be in prison more to protect the society that they leech off of than for so called "punishment".

Since as a humane society we can not make prison "that bad" and drugs are available there most addicts only see it as part of the life and not all that undesireable a part when starving or freezing on the streets is the alternative. In prison they don't have to sensor much of their behavior, they eat, watch cable TV, and have social structure they understand and can compeat in. The idea that we control them in prison is a farse.

I do think making excuses for addicts is just part of the problem because many addicts come from environments that were not ideal but are certainly not as bad as many folk's reality.

couldn't agree more, if you are to expect people to stand, let them fall first.

I am 24. I have sold drugs from the time I was 13 until 23. I spent the last year in jail. The ONLY reason I stopped is because this girl I met showed me how much she cared about me. I stopped doing drugs in high school because my mom started doing them again. Most people are in that court room for at least ten very good reasons other than being an addict.

You are true in every word you speak about putting the money where it should go to help people and rebuild lives instead of tear them apart but why would the justice system give up on the biggest cash crop since marijuana? Keeping people in and out of facilaties or jails/prisons creates so many jobs and brings in so much revenue. It would be like making cars that run on air.

I've spent my entire life in the system and I'm still on probation but I didn't chose to change until someone showed me just how much I meant to the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Want a lesson in the law that shows it's built for keeping the criminals in circulation, here's a good one.


In 2006 I beat a false imprisonment charge(which is kidnapping an adult) and plead my drug trafficking charge down to a possession of paraphernalia charge along with a possesion of cocaine(less than 1 gram) and walked away with misdemeanors, 30 days in jail and 1 year probation.

This is all after they raided my house interrogated me and locked me up. What a waste of money. They could ahve saved alot of money and wrote me a big ticket.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Then:

I got these charges in February of 2008:

Possession of a fire arm while intoxicated-(class A misdemeanor)

Pointing a fire arm at another person-(class A misdemeanor)

Disorderly conduct with a dangerous weapon-(class B misdemeanor)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Then these charges in March of 2008 while I was on Bond for the above stated charges:

Possession of less than 200 grams of marijuana with intent to deliver, second and subsequent-(class H felony)

Bail jumping, possession of a fire arm-(misdemeanor)

Bail jumping, new crime-(midemeanor)

Possession of less than 200 grams of marijuana with intent to deliver, second and subsequent-(class H felony)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of all of that I plead to one possession of marijuana >200grams w/intent to deliver-(class H felony)

Possession of a fire arm while intoxicated-(class A misdemeanor)

4 years probation, 9 months Huber in county jail with an 8 year stayed sentence.

****ing crazy isn't it!!!??? BUT!! There's a reason. See the DA thought because of my history He would give me a good plea bargain with little jailtime and a huge stayed sentence. Which means....if I violate my probation I go to jail the first couple times before they send me to prison for 8 years.

This ladies and gentlemen keeps me in the county jail Huber facility where they can make lots of money off me and puts me on county probation which sends me right back to that same jail. I was a cash crop until I made the choice (with the help of my girl) to never be a criminal again. Now i'm set to go to college and become a massage therapist. My probation officer doesn't believe I'm the person the court says and I adopted a dog (the love of my life) from a humane society.

If you show people you care it will change the world. It may not be today but it will have an impact somewhere to someone someday. It took one person to help me believe in myself. It may take more for the rest of the world.

You dont get the same defense if you dont have the same resources. You also can easily get a harsher sentence based upon the judges pre conditioned prejudices for the same offense and the same record as someone else. This is a flaw in the system, I wont pretend to know for sure how big, but certainly cant just be explained away.

It goes both ways. I saw a man commit three felonies in the same year, and simply get his probation extended. He was a 21 yo AA male with 6 prior felonies. He never served a day in prison. He had a public defender, whom I can say the majority of fight very hard for their clients.

And his charges were Assault, Domestic Violence, and two felony level drug cases.