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| Topic: So things have changed a little bit for me..... | |
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Kleisto....can I just say, that you are showing your maturity, positively, in how you are responding to the posters here... and it would be a point in your favour if you were chatting to my 16 year old... 
Thanks, I am trying to keep a level head as best I can and respond honestly, it's not easy though, particularly when you feel you are being personally put down by someone. |
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By the way, when you make a post that doesn't fall into what the mainstream considers acceptable, you run the risk of being judged. I have a few deviant thoughts of my own, but I don't post them on a public forum and then ask for opinions. Just thought I'd share that with you for next time.
Yeah and see that's the thing, just cause something isn't "acceptable", doesn't mean it's totally wrong neccessarily in all cases you know? It's not fair to put everyone who may be like me as bad people, when not everyone is going to be. And I don't see it as a deviant thought in this case either. Re-read what I said, when something is "considered" unacceptable. Just because you don't see anything wrong with what you are doing, doesn't mean the majority agrees with you. You are making a post on a public forum, where the majority of people think a 21 year old man having any involvement with a 16 year old girl is unacceptable. Therefore, the majority is not going to agree with your decision. You have one person on here who is agreeing with you, but the rest of us aren't. Therefore, what you are doing is considered deviant. Morality is something that is created by a culture; in Africa, and other countries, very young girls are considered adults early. We don't have that concept in America, that's why we create laws to protect children. If you don't want to be considered a pedophile, it's best to not exhibit pedophilic behavior. You're right, I don't know you, and I'm sure I never will, but all I have to go by is what you are saying here. You are defending a romantic relationship with a 16 year old girl. It doesn't matter if you're both waiting for sex. It's a romantic relationship, and in our society it is considered wrong and deviant. It's one thing to say you're going to do something and damn what everyone thinks, but you could at least accept the idea that the mainstream doesn't accept what you're doing as normal. |
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Kleisto....can I just say, that you are showing your maturity, positively, in how you are responding to the posters here... and it would be a point in your favour if you were chatting to my 16 year old...
Thanks, I am trying to keep a level head as best I can and respond honestly, it's not easy though, particularly when you feel you are being personally put down by someone. I will echo Jess' sentiment on this one, dude. I definitely give you credit for not falling into the " Oh yeah?? Well screw you " type of thing we see so much around here when people don't agree with a person's ideas. |
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even teen rebels but its a parents job to keep their child safe for anything or anybody they deem unsafe.and i dont think a 16 year old needs o be around someone 5 years older then her.id be keeping the cops on speed dial and a bat and gun very handy There would be no more internet at my house and more. It is my job to protect my child. I do understand that, but at the same time I wouldn't want to rule in a totalitrian manner, particularly in an issue like this. I would at the least try and hear her side of it, before making any assumptions as to if the person is good or bad, it's only fair IMO. I am not my child's friend. I am their parent. That doesn't make me an authoritarian parent. A 16 year old should be hanging out with kids their own age and not people 21 and older. I don't care how good how bad or good they care. |
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even teen rebels but its a parents job to keep their child safe for anything or anybody they deem unsafe.and i dont think a 16 year old needs o be around someone 5 years older then her.id be keeping the cops on speed dial and a bat and gun very handy There would be no more internet at my house and more. It is my job to protect my child. I do understand that, but at the same time I wouldn't want to rule in a totalitrian manner, particularly in an issue like this. I would at the least try and hear her side of it, before making any assumptions as to if the person is good or bad, it's only fair IMO. I am not my child's friend. I am their parent. That doesn't make me an authoritarian parent. A 16 year old should be hanging out with kids their own age and not people 21 and older. I don't care how good how bad or good they care. I agree. |
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it's a very heated subject...and we are all vulnerable when it comes to our kids.
I want to point out to Kleisto...when you do become a parent, it's at times very difficult to see a 16 year old who is completely dependent on us for everything, and is still in school, as mature enough to decide her romantic future. You are closer to 16 than we are, so it feels that 16 is not so young. Please remember, the parents here are speaking as parents, their job is protect their child at all costs. |
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She is 16 going on 17 in the fall, so there would be a little waiting period there (not that we'd be sexually active anyway before she turned 18 as we both know better), and is in North Carolina considerably closer then Australia lol. Now I had thought about the possibility of maybe being with her before, but it sort of has been more an afterthought, since she isn't around much at all to really talk this being the first time we had since we met actually, outside of exchanging a few messages between now and then. So I find myself confused, do I take the chance and give her a shot and see where it goes, even with the whereabouts and otherwise of Vicky being unknown, or do I wait for a bit and see if/when she comes back and what is happening on her end? I'm kinda wondering with all this going on lately, if what I really want has always been there and I just never noticed it cause of how infrequent she is around, though at least she is. It's very confusing and I kind of want to keep my options open to other possibilities too, though don't want to hurt anyone here. Lot going through my mind right now, can anyone give me some advice? Why is a 16 year old considered to be an option for a 21 year old? Well the age gap isn't all that bad, by this time a year from now she'd almost be 18. Age is really but a number anyway, and it's not like it's over 10 years or anything like that. Age is very important when it is illegal. Like you say, if in a year she will be almost 18, then try waiting that year and see where she stands, see if she will wait too, if she don't, then don't count on her staying at all. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 07/31/09 12:33 AM
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Would I be concerned? It depends on how/where she met the person, how long they've known each other and what all was said between them
And ANY parent who was naive enough to think that a 16 year old would actually tell them all the things that were said, especially if she knew they wouldn't think it was an appropriate subject, would seriously need to have their parenting skills called into question. That would depend on how the parents raised their kids. When I have my own family, I'm going to make it to where no subject is off limits, I want my kids to be able to be open with me about anything, regardless of topic. Part of the reason kids may react as you describe is because there is a lack of openness in ways like that now. Regardless of that though, even if she did hide things, whatever I didn't know could be found out from talking to the guy himself, probing him as it were on various matters, and seeing how he responds. Dude. You can make it a " no subject is off limits " environment, but you would also be naive to think that you will be told everything every time. As to the second part of your post.... yeah...HE'S gonna be 100% truthful when he meets her parents. Especially if he thinks that the parents don't find what he's doing acceptable in the first place. At this point, you are doing nothing but deluding yourself. You may, or may not, fall into the type of guy that the parents would be worried about. I have no idea and don't really care. They have every right to be worried. They also have EVERY right to tell you to get lost and stop contacting their daughter. being the mature individual that you are..are you going to respect their wishes if they tell you to piss off? About the first part, maybe, but I'd hope at least she'd be honest with me, as I would be with them. As for the guy being truthful with the parents, he may be, or he may not be, that said there are ways to find out intent, through asking certain questions, looking at body language, expressions, etc. There's more then one way to skin a cat man. Lastly, if they told me to go away and I really felt strongly for her, and she did me, I don't know that I would. I would try and prove to them that I mean no harm, regardless of what it took to do that. If they weren't happy about it even then, well to be honest really I'm not sure it would matter, particularly when the girl became of age. At that point it would be our choice to make, whether they like it or don't. You can't make everyone happy all the time. |
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even teen rebels but its a parents job to keep their child safe for anything or anybody they deem unsafe.and i dont think a 16 year old needs o be around someone 5 years older then her.id be keeping the cops on speed dial and a bat and gun very handy There would be no more internet at my house and more. It is my job to protect my child. I do understand that, but at the same time I wouldn't want to rule in a totalitrian manner, particularly in an issue like this. I would at the least try and hear her side of it, before making any assumptions as to if the person is good or bad, it's only fair IMO. I am not my child's friend. I am their parent. That doesn't make me an authoritarian parent. A 16 year old should be hanging out with kids their own age and not people 21 and older. I don't care how good how bad or good they care. I agree. I would consider myself a bad parent if I did otherwise. |
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it's a very heated subject...and we are all vulnerable when it comes to our kids. I want to point out to Kleisto...when you do become a parent, it's at times very difficult to see a 16 year old who is completely dependent on us for everything, and is still in school, as mature enough to decide her romantic future. You are closer to 16 than we are, so it feels that 16 is not so young. Please remember, the parents here are speaking as parents, their job is protect their child at all costs. I'm not a parent and I have no intention of every having children, I just think it's irresponsible to be in a relationship with a kid like that. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 07/31/09 12:34 AM
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She is 16 going on 17 in the fall, so there would be a little waiting period there (not that we'd be sexually active anyway before she turned 18 as we both know better), and is in North Carolina considerably closer then Australia lol. Now I had thought about the possibility of maybe being with her before, but it sort of has been more an afterthought, since she isn't around much at all to really talk this being the first time we had since we met actually, outside of exchanging a few messages between now and then. So I find myself confused, do I take the chance and give her a shot and see where it goes, even with the whereabouts and otherwise of Vicky being unknown, or do I wait for a bit and see if/when she comes back and what is happening on her end? I'm kinda wondering with all this going on lately, if what I really want has always been there and I just never noticed it cause of how infrequent she is around, though at least she is. It's very confusing and I kind of want to keep my options open to other possibilities too, though don't want to hurt anyone here. Lot going through my mind right now, can anyone give me some advice? Why is a 16 year old considered to be an option for a 21 year old? Well the age gap isn't all that bad, by this time a year from now she'd almost be 18. Age is really but a number anyway, and it's not like it's over 10 years or anything like that. Age is very important when it is illegal. Like you say, if in a year she will be almost 18, then try waiting that year and see where she stands, see if she will wait too, if she don't, then don't count on her staying at all. From what I know about her, I don't think she'd mind waiting at all. |
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Kleisto,
Why don't you just find someone your own age? It would be legal and you would have more things in common with them? |
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Would I be concerned? It depends on how/where she met the person, how long they've known each other and what all was said between them
And ANY parent who was naive enough to think that a 16 year old would actually tell them all the things that were said, especially if she knew they wouldn't think it was an appropriate subject, would seriously need to have their parenting skills called into question. That would depend on how the parents raised their kids. When I have my own family, I'm going to make it to where no subject is off limits, I want my kids to be able to be open with me about anything, regardless of topic. Part of the reason kids may react as you describe is because there is a lack of openness in ways like that now. Regardless of that though, even if she did hide things, whatever I didn't know could be found out from talking to the guy himself, probing him as it were on various matters, and seeing how he responds. Dude. You can make it a " no subject is off limits " environment, but you would also be naive to think that you will be told everything every time. As to the second part of your post.... yeah...HE'S gonna be 100% truthful when he meets her parents. Especially if he thinks that the parents don't find what he's doing acceptable in the first place. At this point, you are doing nothing but deluding yourself. You may, or may not, fall into the type of guy that the parents would be worried about. I have no idea and don't really care. They have every right to be worried. They also have EVERY right to tell you to get lost and stop contacting their daughter. being the mature individual that you are..are you going to respect their wishes if they tell you to piss off? About the first part, maybe, but I'd hope at least she'd be honest with me, as I would be with them. As for the guy being truthful with the parents, he may be, or he may not be, that said there are ways to find out intent, through asking certain questions, looking at body language, expressions, etc. There's more then one way to skin a cat man. Lastly, if they told me to go away and I really felt strongly for her, and she did me, I don't know that I would. I would try and prove to them that I mean no harm, regardless of what it took to do that. If they weren't happy about it even then, well to be honest really I'm not sure it would matter, particularly when the girl became of age. At that point it would be our choice to make, whether they like it or don't. You can't make everyone happy all the time. You feel strongly for her. Have you met her? |
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My daughter who is now 20 dated a man who was 5 years her senior when she was 16.
She's also dated a man who was 27 when she was 18... My son has been with his partner now for 5 years, she is 29, he is 24.... I dated a 21 year old man when I was 15.... did I know everything I know now? hell no! Did my kids? Goodness no! But I am not prepared to condemn a 21 year old on the internet for having the guts to be honest either. |
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even teen rebels but its a parents job to keep their child safe for anything or anybody they deem unsafe.and i dont think a 16 year old needs o be around someone 5 years older then her.id be keeping the cops on speed dial and a bat and gun very handy There would be no more internet at my house and more. It is my job to protect my child. I do understand that, but at the same time I wouldn't want to rule in a totalitrian manner, particularly in an issue like this. I would at the least try and hear her side of it, before making any assumptions as to if the person is good or bad, it's only fair IMO. I am not my child's friend. I am their parent. That doesn't make me an authoritarian parent. A 16 year old should be hanging out with kids their own age and not people 21 and older. I don't care how good how bad or good they care. I'm glad I'm not your son, cause if you tried to force a decision on me like this not even knowing anything about it, I would resent you big time for it. |
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As for the guy being truthful with the parents, he may be, or he may not be, that said there are ways to find out intent, through asking certain questions, looking at body language, expressions, etc. There's more then one way to skin a cat man.
There are not many people who are fluent in " body language ". Most people do not know how to read the signs. Most people will just flat out ask what your intentions are. If you lie, they probably won't know if you are any good at lying. |
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Would I be concerned? It depends on how/where she met the person, how long they've known each other and what all was said between them
And ANY parent who was naive enough to think that a 16 year old would actually tell them all the things that were said, especially if she knew they wouldn't think it was an appropriate subject, would seriously need to have their parenting skills called into question. That would depend on how the parents raised their kids. When I have my own family, I'm going to make it to where no subject is off limits, I want my kids to be able to be open with me about anything, regardless of topic. Part of the reason kids may react as you describe is because there is a lack of openness in ways like that now. Regardless of that though, even if she did hide things, whatever I didn't know could be found out from talking to the guy himself, probing him as it were on various matters, and seeing how he responds. Dude. You can make it a " no subject is off limits " environment, but you would also be naive to think that you will be told everything every time. As to the second part of your post.... yeah...HE'S gonna be 100% truthful when he meets her parents. Especially if he thinks that the parents don't find what he's doing acceptable in the first place. At this point, you are doing nothing but deluding yourself. You may, or may not, fall into the type of guy that the parents would be worried about. I have no idea and don't really care. They have every right to be worried. They also have EVERY right to tell you to get lost and stop contacting their daughter. being the mature individual that you are..are you going to respect their wishes if they tell you to piss off? About the first part, maybe, but I'd hope at least she'd be honest with me, as I would be with them. As for the guy being truthful with the parents, he may be, or he may not be, that said there are ways to find out intent, through asking certain questions, looking at body language, expressions, etc. There's more then one way to skin a cat man. Lastly, if they told me to go away and I really felt strongly for her, and she did me, I don't know that I would. I would try and prove to them that I mean no harm, regardless of what it took to do that. If they weren't happy about it even then, well to be honest really I'm not sure it would matter, particularly when the girl became of age. At that point it would be our choice to make, whether they like it or don't. You can't make everyone happy all the time. You feel strongly for her. Have you met her? No we have not, but from the talks we've had we do have a lot in common. |
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As for the guy being truthful with the parents, he may be, or he may not be, that said there are ways to find out intent, through asking certain questions, looking at body language, expressions, etc. There's more then one way to skin a cat man.
There are not many people who are fluent in " body language ". Most people do not know how to read the signs. Most people will just flat out ask what your intentions are. If you lie, they probably won't know if you are any good at lying. Who's to say I'd be like anyone else though? Just cause others may do one things one way, doesn't mean I would. |
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even teen rebels but its a parents job to keep their child safe for anything or anybody they deem unsafe.and i dont think a 16 year old needs o be around someone 5 years older then her.id be keeping the cops on speed dial and a bat and gun very handy There would be no more internet at my house and more. It is my job to protect my child. I do understand that, but at the same time I wouldn't want to rule in a totalitrian manner, particularly in an issue like this. I would at the least try and hear her side of it, before making any assumptions as to if the person is good or bad, it's only fair IMO. I am not my child's friend. I am their parent. That doesn't make me an authoritarian parent. A 16 year old should be hanging out with kids their own age and not people 21 and older. I don't care how good how bad or good they care. I'm glad I'm not your son, cause if you tried to force a decision on me like this not even knowing anything about it, I would resent you big time for it. It's not a personality contest. It's my job. |
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Okay, here's my final thought and then I'm out of here, this topic is getting old. Did you follow that story about the child who got caught up in an internet relationship on myspace and it turned out to be a hoax and she committed suicide? She thought it was a boy her age rejecting her and she took it very hard. Have you thought about how this girl is going to take your rejection of her? Have you thought about her mental state, maybe she's "caught up in you" and being told that you prefer to wait for some other girl might devastate her.
If you told the average adult woman you're going to wait for someone else, they might be hurt, but they'd get over it. Teenagers aren't like that. Life for them is a one big emergency, one big thrill, one big joy, one big whatever. They aren't mature, no matter how they come off, their brains haven't reached that point yet. I know you think I'm picking on you, but I'm not. I'm not attacking you. I'm thinking of the child. I'd hate for her to have some kind of breakdown or episode because of this "nonsexual relationship." In her head, it might be a lot more than you're giving it credit for. Just think about that. That's all. Good luck.
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