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Topic: Mind Reading
creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 09:13 PM
I did not call a simple case of mutaul sexual attraction telepathy...


:wink:

no photo
Mon 05/25/09 09:17 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 05/25/09 09:19 PM

I did not call a simple case of mutaul sexual attraction telepathy...


:wink:


I wouldn't either and I'm not referring to that incident. I'm talking about a completely different one where I received a message from a distance of about five miles in the form of words. That message was confirmed later to have been sent at that time.

I know it exists.

The previous was an example of how some telepathy is in the form of feelings and visions.

I would not believe so strongly on just a few flimsy incidents. I have experienced it on a number of occasions.

I am dispersing this information because it is a fact as far as my experience is concerned. You can disbelieve it if you so choose but you would be wrong in my opinion to go around saying that it does not exist.




creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 09:19 PM
We all have our own justifications...

For a thing to be shown to exist requires a little more than just saying that it does.

flowerforyou

no photo
Mon 05/25/09 09:22 PM

We all have our own justifications...

For a thing to be shown to exist requires a little more than just saying that it does.

flowerforyou



I am not attempting to SHOW you anything. I am telling that telepathy exists. You can believe it or not. If you refuse to even consider the possibility, that just shows me your mind is set and very closed up.


creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 09:25 PM
Ok...

laugh

Away I go with my closed up mind....
































































































































which understands!

:wink:

no photo
Mon 05/25/09 10:11 PM
You don't understand at all. You make blanket statements about something being impossible or nonexistent and you have no way of knowing that.

You don't know everything, so you cannot know if something like telepathy exists or not.

And yet you are smug in your declarations about what does not exist and you think just because you say it does not exist, that it does not exist; therefore that is no better than what you accuse me of doing.

At least my authority is my own experience. I regard that very highly. Your only authority is what you think you know by what you can't possibly know. That's not logical at all.

creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 10:36 PM
Edited by creativesoul on Mon 05/25/09 10:53 PM
Ok...

I think that you are a little coo coo!

flowers

There is ample evidence which is backed by substantiated scientific knowledge to support my claim, that was given without a logical refutation.

It is a matter of inference... mine has reasonable logical grounds backed ny scientific knowns, and yours has your own interpretation of what you think someone else thinks!

Who is being illogical?

You have yet to directly address the claim itself!

laugh


metalwing's photo
Mon 05/25/09 10:40 PM

I think the problems that will occur in the type of telepathy I described is in the individual interpretations of the messages being sent. Its just like any other language. They are subject to personal interpretation according to the experience of the receiver, and maybe even the sender.

That is some of the same things I run into while reading tarot cards. Every reader has their own system of interpretation.




Jeanniebean,

May I have a reading?

creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 10:43 PM
Good timing wing...

drinker

metalwing's photo
Mon 05/25/09 10:50 PM
Edited by metalwing on Mon 05/25/09 11:14 PM



There is no reason to think that the same dimension which allows gravity to act instantly across the universe, could not also allow the transmission of some portion of the energy of thought patterns across space.


Based on the standard model of physics gravity waves propagate at the speed of light. So this was the only statement I could find to correct.


Great series of posts otherwise Metalwing!
I hope I live long enough to buy my mind reading/sending cap!


Actually I wasn't referring to the effects of gravity waves in four dimensional space, I was referring to the effect of gravity in multi dimensional space which allows for almost instantaneous gravitational effects to occur to satisfy certain elements of the newer overall models of space-time. The "standard model" is being revised as we type but only describes the theoretical "waves" that should be observable to us but are not... at least not yet.

Imagine a glass of water half full. Drop an egg into the glass. The level of the water rises instantly as the egg displaces water. This is the muli dimensional instaneous effect of gravity.

The ripples that propagate along the surface of the water give an indication that something happened. These would be the standard model effect. The waves rippling back and forth would be limited my the speed of light.

Here is a "more current" discussion of how the standard model is evolving.

Begin Quote:

Dynamics of warped submillimeter extra dimensions
A “theory of everything” based on quantum superstrings requires many, as yet invisible, extra
dimensions for mathematical consistency. The sizes of the dimensions, their shapes, and how
they are stabilized are unknown. If they exist, gravity can penetrate into them, so they must be
small or highly “warped” – with sizes or radii of curvature
below the submillimeter scale limits set by
direct laboratory tests of the gravitational inversesquare
law. (The scales probed by Standard Model
particles and fields are much smaller than this, but
fields other than gravity might be confined to a 3-
dimensional subspace or “brane” living in a larger
dimensional space.)
Since the Hubble length at the Terascale is about a
millimeter, the current threshold where possible new
effects of extra dimensions might appear happens to
be about the same in the laboratory gravity, particle/
field, and cosmological realms: that is, at present,
laboratory gravity experiments, accelerator physics,
and LISA cosmology converge on the same new regime
in very different ways. It is even possible that
new properties of gravity on this scale are related to
cosmic dark energy (whose energy density is about
(0.1mm)−4 in particle units).

End quote

The key point here is the line "(The scales probed by Standard Model
particles and fields are much smaller than this, but
fields other than gravity might be confined to a 3-
dimensional subspace or “brane” living in a larger
dimensional space.)" Please note that gravity is not confined to three dimensional space.

Other that that mistake, I take your post as a compliment and thanks.

And if anything, such as the effect of gravity, can occur over vast distances (which as described above are actually very small distances in multi dimensional space) then thoughts may be able to do so also.
All great reading, but unless I missed something big isn't M theory still just a good hypothesis?

I didn't hear about any experimentalist finding a way to test it. If that's not the case please direct me to the research I always enjoying reading papars I dont have the expertise to understand.


Then this is the place to go to get those answers. It has a one meg download to bring you up to speed. Pop test next week. The material is pretty "hard core".

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/astro2010/DetailFileDisplay.aspx?id=73

no photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:04 PM
. . . . Jeannibean's discussion with Creativesoul:


Well, for one thing, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. (mine)


This supports nothing. Your experienece shows a lack of reasoning skills, from my point of view.



Lack of reasoning skills? Anyway it doesn't matter because your point of view is meaningless. The question you asked me was:

"If it doesn't happen between two hemispheres of the same brain, why on earth would anyone believe that it can happen between two separate individuals? "

I simply said PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Which I do have. I experienced very clear messages in the form of words from someone I knew very well! It was confirmed! I know it exists. What YOU believe "from your point of view" is meaningless to me as far as my reasons for believing it.

Just because you have never experienced it and you are a skeptic does not mean that I lack reasoning skills. I just don't reason away my PERSONAL AND CONFIRMED EXPERIENCE just because someone like you comes along and refuses to believe for lack of his own experience with telepathy.




Anyway, your example assumes that the type of communication is the same as would be in a normal brain's communication. You don't know that-- and neither does science because science assumes that telepathy does not exist, (or at least some scientists do.)


My example assumes nothing. Each hemisphere is independently responsible for different types of thinking. They both think independently of one another. That is a fact!

Now, assuming that a single brain has a single receiver and a single sender of thoughts and feelings, I don't see how one side of a brain could communicate via telepathy with the other side unless each side had a sender and receiver. I can't see any reason it would since it is a single brain.


You are confused... read the above again. Do you have any logical refutation to offer to mine? Opinions are great and all, but we could, and have gone on and on using those alone. I am more in the mood for something else, like substantive grounding.

flowerforyou

I think it would be cool, but so would flying pink elephants. Know whatta mean?

I am not confused. YOU are.


____________________________________________________________________
* * * Frankly, Gloria, I'm a bit surprised at You -- though not so much at creativesoul who doesn't seem "creative" at all!
--------------------------------------------
I mean, How could you view the brain as TWO SEPARATE HEMISPHERES???
Have you forgotten of the brane's Central Processing Unit (CPU) that's located at the lower back of our heads -- thus uniting both hemispheres -- serving both of them as a common Receiver/Transmitter: I am referring to the HYPOTHALAMUS! ! !
*********************************************

no photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:15 PM
Edited by HANDLEWITHCAUTION on Mon 05/25/09 11:18 PM
...Some people would doubt anything Until they hear/see it in the mass media! ! !
:biglaugh:

creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:23 PM
I know what you are referring to...

It is not a CPU!!! It has very well known functions!

That response does nothing to disprove the fact that each hemisphere can and has been surgically severed in an individual, and that that individual when show high-speed subliminal type messages to "get up and get a drink" which is percieved by only one side(athough I forget which...lol), actually got up as directed to do so. The funny thing is when the observers asked him why he had gotten up, he gave an answer with complete earnesty of something completely different.

His reasoning created it's own reason because that side is different than the one which perceives the high-speed message. The two sides were acting independently.

Now if telepathy were possible, I would think that this patients own brain would have performed it instead of creating his own reason to why he had gotten up.

The research is there...

Jeez!

Call me uncreative creativesoul! laugh

Ye who knows nothing about me!

creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:37 PM
BTW...

I do not read fiction, nor watch it very often!

laugh

It is mind poison!


creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:39 PM
I hate creativity...

I hate artists...

I hate poets...

I hate passionate people...

laugh

creativesoul's photo
Mon 05/25/09 11:42 PM
I think that I am dehydrated!!!

laugh

Time for bed!!! After a good strong drink...























































































































of water, because I also do not drink or use drugs... prescribed or otherwise, unless it is life threatening.

:wink:

creativesoul's photo
Tue 05/26/09 12:03 AM
A very quick search netted this...

Each of the four or five lobes of the telencephalon is divided in half making the left and right cerebral hemispheres. The two hemispheres are connected with matter called the corpus callosum which allows the two lobes to communicate information to each other.


laugh

creativesoul's photo
Tue 05/26/09 12:05 AM
Edited by creativesoul on Tue 05/26/09 12:09 AM
What is better, being 'uncreative' or being full of sheeee-ought!

laugh

Did I say that?

creativesoul's photo
Tue 05/26/09 12:45 AM
In the 1940s, it was discovered that surgical disconnection of the two cerebral hemispheres, by dividing the corpus callosum, the bridge of nerve fibres that connects them, effectively reduced seizures in patients with intractable epilepsy. When behavioural studies with these patients were first carried out, it appeared that sectioning the callosum led to no major breakdown in interhemispheric processing. A simple test, however, can reveal that there are in fact dramatic effects of this disconnection, known as the split-brain syndrome.

If such a patient's hands are obscured from his view and an object is placed in the right hand, he can name it easily. Conversely, if it is placed in the left hand, the patient is unable to identify it verbally. Given an array of items to choose from, however, the left hand is immediately able to pick out this same item. Since initiation of left-hand movement occurs in the right hemisphere, this indicates that the right hemisphere has knowledge about the object but is unable to name it.

Over the years, more sophisticated testing procedures have taken advantage of the contralateral organization of various perceptual systems, such as the visual system, to explore the specialized functions of the two hemispheres. These studies have resulted in remarkable insights into the specialized capacities of each disconnected hemisphere. They have also revealed how the two hemispheres work in concert in the normal brain to provide seamless integration of sensory, motor, and cognitive functions.

Split-brain patients behave in ways that were to a large extent predicted by classical neurology. For example, the most striking aspect of the split-brain syndrome is that the left hemisphere has access to speech and the right hemisphere does not. The left hemisphere's specialization for language was already long established, based on data from patients with unilateral brain damage. Although the effects of disconnection on language were therefore not unexpected, it was surprising to discover the extent to which the left hemisphere was specialized for problem-solving of all kinds. Indeed, not only could it, and it alone, solve a wide range of cognitive problems, it also possessed a special device that has been called the ‘interpreter’. In brief, this was revealed by presenting two pictures, one to each half brain. For example, a picture of a snow scene was presented (from the left field of vision) to the right hemisphere of a split-brain patient. The non-talking right hemisphere had four cards to choose from, one of which was a shovel. At the same time the left hemisphere was shown a chicken claw and its four choices included a picture of a chicken. Following presentation of these pictures the patient was allowed to choose between the eight possible pictures. The left hand, governed by the right hemisphere, chose the shovel and the right hand, governed by the left hemisphere, chose the chicken. When asked by the experimenter why he had responded in that manner, the speaking left hemisphere said, ‘Oh, the chicken claw goes with the chicken, and you need a shovel to clean out the chicken shed.’ The left hemisphere in fact did not know why the left hand chose the shovel. The left brain observed what the right hand was doing and came up with a theory that explained away an action.

The right hemisphere appears to lack the interpretive capacities of the left and consequently is markedly impoverished in problem solving. Nevertheless, the right brain has it own specializations. The right hemisphere is superior to the left in a wide range of perceptual skills, such as grouping of visual elements into a whole picture. Early demonstrations of this involved copying drawings with each hand separately. With their hands obscured from view, right-handed split-brain patients were able to produce reasonable copies with their left hands but not with their right. The drawings made by the right hand contained details of the original pictures but had little or no spatial coherence. More recent research has revealed the right hemisphere's superiority in making orientation judgments, remembering unknown, upright faces, and a host of other visual tasks.

Investigations into the realms of language and perception clearly reveal the functional differences between the two hemispheres. Studies on memory and attention, however, provide insights into the ways in which the two hemispheres work together in an intact brain. Memory research with split-brain patients suggests that the two hemispheres each provide a unique input into storing information and later retrieving it. The left hemisphere interpreter is thought to be continually generating theories to explain the information it is currently processing. As a result, this hemisphere is particularly suited to getting the ‘gist’ of an event. This interpretive function, however, means that the left hemisphere often makes errors in recalling details of an event. The more literal right hemisphere does not make inferences and generalizations about incoming information, so this hemisphere is much less likely to make factual errors. The two hemispheres therefore work together to provide a system which is capable of accurately recalling details while still allowing for elaboration and inferences about the world.

Attention is something else that involves interaction between the two hemispheres. Both hemispheres are able to orient reflexively to external stimuli, and this focusing of attention occurs independently in each hemisphere. Voluntary orienting, however, appears to involve a single shared resource. This is illustrated by experiments that require each hemisphere to be performing a task independently of the other; then, when one hemisphere has a difficult task, the performance of the other hemisphere on a separate task is impaired. If the task of the first hemisphere becomes relatively easy, however, the performance of the other hemisphere improves markedly. Thus although the two hemispheres co-operate in many aspects of neural functioning, in the realm of voluntary control of attention the two hemispheres appear to compete. Studies that demand this kind of hemispheric competition have revealed that control over voluntary attention seems to be preferentially lateralized to the left hemisphere.

In summary, studies with split-brain patients have provided invaluable insights into the specialized functions of the two hemispheres and the ways in which they interact to enable myriad perceptual and cognitive functions.


There is a little more scientific evidence that completey supports my claim, any substantive refutation yet?

That is my experience, ma'am! It does not involve my own personal perceptions which are supported by a blind faith alone!

flowers

Shall we now go back to my own little creative inference, which was not parroted from another?




no photo
Tue 05/26/09 01:31 AM
Im sucking out your thoughts...............











Now...............shocked

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