And we supported them by taxing the sh!t out of them? Then by telling them how to run their business? Please!




You reading this, DaveyB?

Ditto.

The socialists will do to the business in general, what the socialists have done to the oil companies. Oil companies are good as gold, but they are good not here, and not for us.

Every time we are having this discussion, I am amazed at how thorough is the communist indoctrination. Just catching what folks say:

...we need tariffs

...Gotta get money back in the hands of the working class

...our significance as a consumer

These things are iconic monuments to free education by the government.

You reading this, DaveyB?


Sure did, apparently you didn't read my response to this exact post.

This?



I did, just did not find it explaining anything. Btw, what are you referring to?

The free trade agreement started the downfall of our economic system.

Should have tried the Iron Curtains. It sure helped the Soviets.

BS!
It started way before Clinton!

It started with the lifting of trade tarriffs.
First the Steele Industries, and Auto, and then textiles and electronics!

Try Ronnie!

I was responding to this part that you chose not to quote.



I'm really not sure how to be any more clear. He said companies started moving out of the country. That is not correct, some have yes, but doubt for many it was about the tax situation. In fact to my knowledge most of what's moved over seas has been the companies that we've allowed to be sold to foreign entities. Most other developed countries are not so stupid as to allow that. And as for the 55% tax rate you won't find a single corporation small or large that pays 55% on all their income. Write offs, loop holes, tax credits and so many other methods for reducing taxable income that corporations actually pay very little tax in proportion to their actual income. As a small business owner I have some ability to do that as well, I take ever legal break I can get and it's quite substantial even for a small time guy like me. The average Joe doesn't get those kinds of breaks. That 39% tax on the rich and 55% tax on corporations is there to make you think you're getting a break. When I was working as a tax accountants aid most of his clients were multi-million dollar corps and individuals earning over half a mill per year. None, repeat None of them paid tax on more than 60% of their income and some paid less. Even if you own your own home and have significant medical bills (The only two breaks you are likely to get) you're probably still paying on at least 95% of your income. Grab a calculator skippy, percentage wise you pay more than they do.

Damn I hate to say it, but yeah you're right. There were things even before that but that was a turning point

Quite true and that's because it's a misnomer. The free trade agreement is/was anything but that. It put the US at a sever disadvantage. We do not have the rights to sell (or buy) in other countries that other countries have here.

We were forced to bail out these banks and corporations who used the money for overseas investments and bonuses. We gave them an even greater opportunity to outsource our jobs by financing just that!

One thing you can always count on, if you give your child a credit card, and give them no restrictions on its use, you're going to PAY! Just like a child with a cell phone. You provide it for safety reasons, but when you get the bill, it's not their safety that becomes the issue any more!

This is our government at work, our children (they do work for us...remember?) with our credit card and cell phone, and the bill is now due!

We need to ground our "children" until we get things back under control!

I did not quote because I have already quoted that, and we we're clear what is it we are talking about.




Now I see.
So, you think because the corporations weren't paying taxes on all of their income, there was no reason for them to move away.

Why should corporations pay any taxes? After all, once issued as income to owners, the profits are taxed anyway.

However, let us say that there is no corporate taxation, only the income tax. Is that great or what? I don't think so. What matters to me as a business owner is how much will I make in profits that I can keep to myself. The bottom line.

And if after all the socialism, the bottom line is that after investing a dollar I keep only 50 bucks in profits (that is after all taxes), this still may not be enough to keep me interested. I want what I want, and I will get it one way or another, because those are all my money.

That profit is not a teft or a robbery proceeds, such as taxes are. It is all mine, why should I share it with anyone?

You also mention that the reality is that rich pay less as a percentage than the poor. So, it is the percentage that matters?

Let me give you a very simplistic example of what matters:

Say you make 50000 a year and I make 25000. We both come to a TV store and set our eyes on large screen LCD TVs. Some nice a$$ Sony 65 incher, how about that.

Now, there are two price tags, one for you and one for me. Your's say $20000. And mine says $10000.

How about that? We both pay equal percentage for this TV. Cool huh?

Or let's put it another way on one of my really bad years I actually paid tax on 0% of my income so perhaps I should get that TV for free?

So you are saying we should pay exactly the same amount of tax no matter how much money we make? So a person earning 15k per year should pay the same 10k in taxes as the guy making 50k? I really don't think that would work so well. I don't mind the flat tax idea where everyone pays the same percentage as long as we remove all the loop holes, though for me it would probably mean paying a little more.

Why? I didn't immediately suggest anything. I simply have shown that to think that there is some fair amount of taxes based on equal (even if so) percentages is ridiculous.

It only feels fair because you're the one ripping off the other guy. Once you are the one being ripped off, you want to move to China.

Regarding your rhetoric question of proper taxation, I must say that if you really care, start asking first why do we even have taxation.
Then see if you can agree with those reasons for taxation. The rates, can be determined later.

My main objection to your "equal amount" line would be that the taxes should be low enough so that they can be afforded by the poorest. Even at that point, it would not be fair, because of:

1-some people would still refuse to pay their fair share by getting completely broke. So, somebody will have to work to subsidize them.

2-even if we all paid the same amount it would be bullsh!t system. Because rich do not use public buses, schools, foodstamps, in many cases even police.

So, the taxation system is inherently unfair to rich, not to poor as it is commonly believed. The rich are viewed not as people and citizens, but simply as objects of extortion. The going argument is to increase the fairness of taxation we need to make rich to pay more, since we can, and they have something we can steal.

This is, the understanding of fairness, ability to steal and presence of things to be stolen.

It is considered to be unfair to tax the poor. The fact that he needs to pay for what he consumes, doesn't even enter into an equation. It is unfair because he doesn't have anything to steal, and because it is impossible to steal from the majority.

So much for the fairness of the people.

Wasn't this where the Buy American Only clause came into play with the stimulous?

Move to China,
move your company there.

You'll just pay a protective tariff to compete in the American Market, which will help alleviate the taxes on American corp, and all your products will say "MADE IN CHINA."

I have different ideas Fanta. How about we simply vote down all the communist measures here, in USA, and put our workers where they really belong. Then we will have everything back as before. Made in USA, good quality, and the workers will have more left to them, definitely more than they have right now. Except for those who do not want to do a great work.

According to what passes for the republican party these days that's what we've been doing for the last 8 years... hasn't worked out so well.

There is one winner in globalization.