Topic: Does God exist?
Bothan's photo
Tue 01/27/09 09:40 AM
Edited by Bothan on Tue 01/27/09 09:41 AM
"not everyone's silly theories (which can be made up with mere visual observation by any tom, **** and harry)."

False. Wrong. Here: http://www.notjustatheory.com/

In short, When scientists use the word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

Moreover, a theory never becomes a law. In fact, if there was a hierarchy of science, theories would be higher than laws. There is nothing higher, or better, than a theory.


Besides that, the question of evil has always been one to plague me when it comes to God. Evil exists. If God does not remove it, he is not omnipotent. If he leaves it, he is malevolent. He cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent.

Skad's photo
Tue 01/27/09 01:07 PM
Edited by Skad on Tue 01/27/09 01:23 PM

"not everyone's silly theories (which can be made up with mere visual observation by any tom, **** and harry)."

False. Wrong. Here: http://www.notjustatheory.com/

In short, When scientists use the word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

Moreover, a theory never becomes a law. In fact, if there was a hierarchy of science, theories would be higher than laws. There is nothing higher, or better, than a theory.


Besides that, the question of evil has always been one to plague me when it comes to God. Evil exists. If God does not remove it, he is not omnipotent. If he leaves it, he is malevolent. He cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent.


Laws are higher and better than theories, but you're young--and most people don't pay attention in class at your age. I'll give you some slack..

Where does it say that an Omnipotent God has to get rid of evil?.. Is that your rule? the rule of (insert name of young new guy here) As Christians believe--and you don't have to be one, but I hate it when you down us without provocation..we're meant to learn how to stand up against it. This is getting off subject tho, and is turning to a rant on some people's part. So many people say that Christians are overbearing. I think clearly, if you read through these threads, you'll see who does the taunting and childish insults.

Since you seem to miss the full idea of what I wrote..Basically.. Existence of God by Christians is measured in faith. No Christian is obligated, especially to another human, to try to prove the existence of God, which is what every post of mine has stated. We just belive in him ourselves and let you do your own thing.

Atheists (so completely obsessed with God or no God, it's unreal), claim humans and science can answer all their questions, yet can't find enough of this so called "proof" that they say rules the world to disprove the existence of God. If you claim science can do it, that man can answer everything, go for it. I certainly won't start a thread and call it "Does an atheist really have a brain?" or something mean like that.



davidben1's photo
Tue 01/27/09 01:13 PM
is the universe made with many things that kill, earth burning with fires, and spewing and sputtering volcano's, and typhoons and hurricanes?

if one believe in god, then one believe all these things god made as well, as just many of these are called EVIL by the mind, so does the mind say evil is within the world, so go about creating it with it's reactions that come from this thinking?

ALL IS GOD OR THE OPPOSITE IS CREATED BY DEFAULT WHICH WAS CALLED SATAN, just the simple action of defining what is good and evil based on WHAT SELF WANT as good?

if self want a new car, then it becomes as good, but if it FIRST thought this was a "sin", then it find ways around this thought, by seeking prooof how it is not, and so then drive it around all day, and say it now ok for others to so so as well, now that self has done it, and seen, HEY THIS AIN'T SO BAD?

but the GUY THAT REFRAIN FROM DRIVING, AND THEN TRY TO IMNPOSE UPON ALL OTHERS TO NOT DRIVE, these even destroy their own fammilies and communities before seeing one is FOLLOWING FEAR OF GOD, based most on simply what self first HEARD FROM OTHERS AS WHAT WAS GOOD, WHICH CREATE HATE.......

no photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:54 PM
God is Spirit. God is within.flowerforyou

davidben1's photo
Tue 01/27/09 04:21 PM
yea dear, you speak the truth?

so then describe to me how god make you feel within, and i might believe you know what that feels like?

to know what god within, one must posessthe secret language, yea, have you hear of it?




Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 05:57 AM

is the universe made with many things that kill, earth burning with fires, and spewing and sputtering volcano's, and typhoons and hurricanes?

if one believe in god, then one believe all these things god made as well, as just many of these are called EVIL by the mind, so does the mind say evil is within the world, so go about creating it with it's reactions that come from this thinking?

ALL IS GOD OR THE OPPOSITE IS CREATED BY DEFAULT WHICH WAS CALLED SATAN, just the simple action of defining what is good and evil based on WHAT SELF WANT as good?

if self want a new car, then it becomes as good, but if it FIRST thought this was a "sin", then it find ways around this thought, by seeking prooof how it is not, and so then drive it around all day, and say it now ok for others to so so as well, now that self has done it, and seen, HEY THIS AIN'T SO BAD?

but the GUY THAT REFRAIN FROM DRIVING, AND THEN TRY TO IMNPOSE UPON ALL OTHERS TO NOT DRIVE, these even destroy their own fammilies and communities before seeing one is FOLLOWING FEAR OF GOD, based most on simply what self first HEARD FROM OTHERS AS WHAT WAS GOOD, WHICH CREATE HATE.......


Garden of Eden--everything perfect. Man outside the garden because he chose to try and have the knowledge of God, not so perfect.

Christians who impose not driving? Doesn't happen. Christians who believe in law, sure--but the laws are set to govern the things that are bad, not driving cars (refer to 10 commandments). All acts of crime can be referenced from them, the country's laws are very similar. For example, when a man covet's another person's car and acts upon it, stealing it, this is wrong.

I can't speak for other Christians, but there is no one that I could say I hated. In fact, even writing in opposition on these forums is because I love people and want them to have the chance to hear the truth about Christian's beliefs.

The only hate comes from people who think Christianity and God shouldn't exist. Who cares if there's a nativity displayed in the town square? Everyone else has the right to display their own artistic or religious works, too. Who cares if the 10 commandments are on the walls of the courthouse? I'm sure you could ask to have a nice painting put up, too. And Christians aren't fighting because they think you should have to read the plaque upon entering the courthouse, they're fighting it because it's an attack on our beliefs, and no one should have to endure that. Unless, of course, your beliefs impose death and destruction to anyone who believes differently, such as the case with radical Islamists. But regular Islamists, no harm done. It's about freedom from persecution because of belief, and I wish people would stop knocking Christians in their own quest for freedom and knowledge.


Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 06:07 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 06:15 AM
Who cares if there's a nativity displayed in the town square?


I care. You can not display a nativity scene on property designated for public use by ALL citizens. Not everyone is a Christian and it is clearly wrong for you to force your beliefs down the throats of others. If your nativity is to be prominently displayed then what of the Jewish star of David and everyone else? Shouldn’t they also be entitled to display icons of their faith? Where does it end?

Who cares if the 10 commandments are on the walls of the courthouse?


I care. How would you feel as a Buddhist accused of a crime that now must stand trial in said courthouse where the 10 commandments are displayed? I imagine you would feel rather apprehensive and uncertain as to the outcome of this proceeding. A civic office and especially a county court house that has the function of disbursing justice to ALL citizens in that community can not rightfully demonstrate blatant favoritism to one religious belief or faith.

Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 06:40 AM

Who cares if there's a nativity displayed in the town square?


I care. You can not display a nativity scene on property designated for public use by ALL citizens. Not everyone is a Christian and it is clearly wrong for you to force your beliefs down the throats of others. If your nativity is to be prominently displayed then what of the Jewish star of David and everyone else? Shouldn’t they also be entitled to display icons of their faith? Where does it end?

Who cares if the 10 commandments are on the walls of the courthouse?


I care. How would you feel as a Buddhist accused of a crime that now must stand trial in said courthouse where the 10 commandments are displayed? I imagine you would feel rather apprehensive and uncertain as to the outcome of this proceeding. A civic office and especially a county court house that has the function of disbursing justice to ALL citizens in that community can not rightfully demonstrate blatant favoritism to one religious belief or faith.



How is that forcing beliefs down someone's throat? I suppose they're demanding you believe in Santa Claus too? Please, if you don't really believe, then you can't convince me that you have enough feelings about the matter to be offended. It's a hate inspired act to restrict public displays that are not vulgar and destructive. Freedom of speech to all.

Buddhists have much the same value system as Christians. The only feelings that result from what you've just stated are jealousy and hate.

Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 06:57 AM


How is that forcing beliefs down someone's throat?


It is pressuring others to acknowledge your beliefs when you purposely and willfully plaster "Merry Christmas" signage in public thoroughfares that are there for the use of ALL citizens. Not everyone is a Christian, believe it or not, so why should they be forced to recognize and endure your personal beliefs? If you maintain the right to do so then shouldn’t everyone be entitled to the same justification for displaying their representations of faith? To truly accomplish this feat that would mean that the downtown areas would become virtually packed with religious icons. Is that fair to the Atheists and Agnostics who don’t observe any of it?

I suppose they're demanding you believe in Santa Claus too?


What you fail to realize is there are several major holidays that are observed at the same time. The Winter Solstice or Yule which is the original Pagan festival that was adopted by the Christians and also the observance of Hanukkah. Its certainly not all about Christmas. That is but one holiday.

Please, if you don't really believe, then you can't convince me that you have enough feelings about the matter to be offended.


You have no way of knowing what my personal belief system entails. I will thank you not to presume that you know what would or would not offend me. This is not about me anyway; it is about the legal ramifications of forcing your beliefs onto others that do not share your religiosity.

It's a hate inspired act to restrict public displays that are not vulgar and destructive. Freedom of speech to all.


It is not a hate inspired act to instruct Christians to refrain from imposing their beliefs onto others. The words "Happy Holidays" are all inclusive. No one theology is represented to the exclusion of all others. I know that would make you happy but it wont happen.

Buddhists have much the same value system as Christians.


Buddhists are NOT Christians. You failed to answer the question. Why does that not surprise me? How would you feel as a Buddhist standing trial for a crime when the Ten Commandments are plastered all over the court house? How truly objective do you feel the judge, representation of council and jury can be?

Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:06 AM



How is that forcing beliefs down someone's throat?


It is pressuring others to acknowledge your beliefs when you purposely and willfully plaster "Merry Christmas" signage in public thoroughfares that are there for the use of ALL citizens. Not everyone is a Christian, believe it or not, so why should they be forced to recognize and endure your personal beliefs? If you maintain the right to do so then shouldn’t everyone be entitled to the same justification for displaying their representations of faith? To truly accomplish this feat that would mean that the downtown areas would become virtually packed with religious icons. Is that fair to the Atheists and Agnostics who don’t observe any of it?

I suppose they're demanding you believe in Santa Claus too?


What you fail to realize is there are several major holidays that are observed at the same time. The Winter Solstice or Yule which is the original Pagan festival that was adopted by the Christians and also the observance of Hanukkah. Its certainly not all about Christmas. That is but one holiday.

Please, if you don't really believe, then you can't convince me that you have enough feelings about the matter to be offended.


You have no way of knowing what my personal belief system entails. I will thank you not to presume that you know what would or would not offend me. This is not about me anyway; it is about the legal ramifications of forcing your beliefs onto others that do not share your religiosity.

It's a hate inspired act to restrict public displays that are not vulgar and destructive. Freedom of speech to all.


It is not a hate inspired act to instruct Christians to refrain from imposing their beliefs onto others. The words "Happy Holidays" are all inclusive. No one theology is represented to the exclusion of all others. I know that would make you happy but it wont happen.

Buddhists have much the same value system as Christians.


Buddhists are NOT Christians. You failed to answer the question. Why does that not surprise me? How would you feel as a Buddhist standing trial for a crime when the Ten Commandments are plastered all over the court house? How truly objective do you feel the judge, representation of council and jury can be?


Ridiculous as usual. All of it. Enough said.

Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:08 AM
So I presume you can not defend your position?

Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:14 AM

So I presume you can not defend your position?


Oh I can.. Just would rather do it intelligently. Doesn't matter what is said, your statements always seem out in left field. I know you're trying to make real connections, so I'll give you a break, but there's no congruency in what you're saying and it's really hard to carry on a discussion that way.

As a solstice lover, you have the freedom in America to put up anything you want, dearheart.

And let a Buddhist who is intimidated take it to appeals and voice that opinion, but you've pulled that, too, out of thin air. There's been no such case, and probably because if you're there for a crime, you either did it or you didn't, and 10 commandments have nothing to do with whether you get a fair shake or not.

It's pure nonsense..

Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:25 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 07:28 AM
Oh I can..


Then by all means demonstrate this for us.


Just would rather do it intelligently


And by this statement you are implying that I am somehow preventing you from displaying your intelligence?

Doesn't matter what is said, your statements always seem out in left field.



What does this mean? How have I not directly responded to every one of your comments? What is "out in left field" exactly?

I know you're trying to make real connections, so I'll give you a break, but there's no congruency in what you're saying and it's really hard to carry on a discussion that way.


What "congruency" is lacking in my discussion? If you are confused or if you feel something that I have stated is unclear or unrelatable to the subject matter, then please point it out and I will make every attempt to explain my position. I feel it is all extremely direct and on point. I fail to see how you do not recognize this.

As a solstice lover, you have the freedom in America to put up anything you want, dearheart.


As a "solstice lover," I would not presume to force my beliefs on anyone else in the community.

And let a Buddhist who is intimidated take it to appeals and voice that opinion, but you've pulled that, too, out of thin air.


How did I pull anything out of thin air? You made the comment that we should have absolutely no problem with the 10 Commandments being displayed in civic offices. I simply explained to you the fallacy of that statement.

There's been no such case, and probably because if you're there for a crime, you either did it or you didn't, and 10 commandments have nothing to do with whether you get a fair shake or not.


Well if we did indeed observe the bible and Ten Commandments as part of our modern day legal code of conduct and legislation, then we might as well just take that Buddhist out to the parking lot and stone him right? Forget all of that "due process" malarkey. Let’s skip trial and proceed directly to stoning.

It's pure nonsense..


Yes I would agree with you here. Its pure crap.

Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:36 AM
Edited by Skad on Wed 01/28/09 07:38 AM


As a solstice lover, you have the freedom in America to put up anything you want, dearheart.


As a "solstice lover," I would not presume to force my beliefs on anyone else in the community.


It's not forcing, it's celebrating.


There's been no such case, and probably because if you're there for a crime, you either did it or you didn't, and 10 commandments have nothing to do with whether you get a fair shake or not.


Well if we did indeed observe the bible and Ten Commandments as part of our modern day legal code of conduct and legislation, then we might as well just take that Buddhist out to the parking lot and stone him right? Forget all of that "due process" malarkey. Let’s skip trial and proceed directly to stoning.


#1--We don't observe all of it. Things like stealing and killing, yes. But we have no laws that govern "having no other gods before me". And #2--stoning isn't in the 10 commandments.


Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:43 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 07:43 AM



As a solstice lover, you have the freedom in America to put up anything you want, dearheart.


As a "solstice lover," I would not presume to force my beliefs on anyone else in the community.


It's not forcing, it's celebrating.


There's been no such case, and probably because if you're there for a crime, you either did it or you didn't, and 10 commandments have nothing to do with whether you get a fair shake or not.


Well if we did indeed observe the bible and Ten Commandments as part of our modern day legal code of conduct and legislation, then we might as well just take that Buddhist out to the parking lot and stone him right? Forget all of that "due process" malarkey. Let’s skip trial and proceed directly to stoning.


#1--We don't observe all of it. Things like stealing and killing, yes. But we have no laws that govern "having no other gods before me". And #2--stoning isn't in the 10 commandments.




Not real strong in history are you skad? The Code of Hammurabi is the best-preserved ancient law code, created in 1760 BC in ancient Babylon. It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi. This is what our modern legal system was inherited from. Dodged a bullet on that one. whoa

no photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:57 AM

It's about freedom from persecution because of belief, and I wish people would stop knocking Christians in their own quest for freedom and knowledge.




And some of wish Christians would stop knocking others in their quest for freedom and knowledge.

Oh wait, Christians don't recognize other forms of freedom and knowledge to be of god, but of satin..

Christians want to be heard above all else, so when others speak out they go balistic...

Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 08:05 AM
Edited by Skad on Wed 01/28/09 08:16 AM



Not real strong in history are you skad? The Code of Hammurabi is the best-preserved ancient law code, created in 1760 BC in ancient Babylon. It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi. This is what our modern legal system was inherited from. Dodged a bullet on that one. whoa



Maybe with the crimes, but the penalties are very different. What, again, does that have to do with what I've said? Do you want to place a "Code of Hammurabi" plaque up? You have my blessing.

I took Philosophy, too, dear--where this code is most in depthly studied.

But..the people coming here escaping religious persecution were not following the Code of Hammurabi. They were, for the most part, Christians. Yes, they do have similarities, and I'll be the first to say that the Code is way more extensive in defining crimes than the 10 Commandments--so was British law by this time, much of it which came over with them--minus the forcing of religion by the government, something that even Christians still hold to be important. But we also adopted..and notice the second phrase of the constitution.. Government shall not prohibit religion.

You're the one who said that by having the 10 Commandments placed on a wall, the judges inside were most likely following them, and I'm the one that said only a few of them were even laws we follow. Oh but! Stoning is in the Code of Hammurabi)))

And can you try to take full quotes? That other crap is messy. Looks unorganized. Oh, and I've got to step out for a bit, but I'll check back in with you later) Have a great rest of the morning! flowerforyou

Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 08:22 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 08:29 AM
It's not forcing, it's celebrating.


Celebrating is not synonymous with forcing your beliefs on others.

Maybe with the crimes, but the penalties are very different.


I don’t understand that comment.

What, again, does that have to do with what I've said?


You stated that our current legal system is somehow demonstrated in the Ten Commandments. Clearly it is not.

Do you want to place a "Code of Hammurabi" plaque up?


No. Why would I need to when our modern legal system is already BASED on Hammurabi's Code?

I took Philosophy, too, dear--where this code is most in depthly studied.


Really? How fascinating, skad. What does philosophy have to do with anything? Talk about pulling things out of thin air.

But..the people coming here escaping religious persecution were not following the Code of Hammurabi. They were, for the most part, Christians.


This country was founded by Deists and not Christians.

so was British law by this time, much of it which came over with them--minus the forcing of religion by the government,


Then why are you insisting on forcing your religious beliefs down the gullets of citizens who do not share your same religiosity?


You're the one who said that by having the 10
Commandments placed on a wall, the judges inside were most likely following them,


I’m the one that said, by displaying the 10 Commandments which are of the Christian faith in origin; you are demonstrating favoritism to one religious belief and are therefore placing those of other faiths in a position to be discriminated against by virtue of not sharing that belief system.

and I'm the one that said only a few of them were even laws we follow.


Which was clearly shown to be a fallacious statement.

Oh, and can you try to take full quotes? That other crap is messy. Looks unorganized.


If you are incapable of reading and comprehending your OWN quotes, what do you want me to do about that exactly?


Skad's photo
Wed 01/28/09 09:15 AM
Edited by Skad on Wed 01/28/09 09:16 AM
was talking about splitting them up like that.. I didn't even read it because it's just too messy. And again, all the comments lack intelligence. ahh, well. time to find a new spot of interest.. Boring here.

Krimsa's photo
Wed 01/28/09 09:25 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 09:25 AM
was talking about splitting them up like that..


All I was doing is making use of the quote tags on forum. It serves the exact opposite purpose of what you are claiming. Have you ever used an electronic internet forum exchange before? I am taking your OWN quotes and then responding to them. I’m sorry if you find it to be overwhelmingly complicated for you.


I didn't even read it because it's just too messy.


The idea behind separating the quotes is to make it less complicated. It allows the responder to take your individual thoughts and points and address /refute them.

And again, all the comments lack intelligence.


So in essence you are claiming that I lack intelligence. I’m sorry you feel that way.

ahh, well. time to find a new spot of interest.. Boring here.


In other words, you lack the ability (or perhaps intelligence) to offer a cohesive rebuttal.