I have to agree with you here.

"Hitler was raised by Roman Catholic parents, but after he left home, he never attended Mass or received the sacraments. In private Hitler made at least one attack against Catholicism that "resonated Streicher's contention that the Catholic establishment was allying itself with the Jews." In light of private statements like these, for John S. Conway and many other historians it is beyond doubt that Hitler held a "fundamental antagonism" towards the Christian churches."

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him!

"It's well-known that after Nietzsche went insane for ten years before his death in 1900, his sister Elizabeth managed his literary estate and twisted his writings to support aggressive regimes such as Hitler and the Nazis. Some sources indicate that Hitler had one of Nietzsche's books, Thus Spake Zarathustra, issued to his soldiers. It spoke of the new age of truth in morality and power. William Shirir writes in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich that while Nietzsche was never anti-Semitic, Hitler basically saw what he wanted to see in Nietzsche's writings. "Hitler often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and published his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man."
Thus, regardless of what he hoped for, Nietzsche offered grounds for the reprehensible Nazi ideology of a superior race exercising its will to power as it saw fit. Hitler was living out what Nietzsche had envisioned, trying to prove himself to be the Übermensch and the precursor of the Master race. He despised weakness as much as Nietzsche did and wanted to "transvalue" the current social values into something that supported the aggressive instinct. He wanted to become, as Nietzsche called it, a "lord of the earth."

Like some killers today, Hitler appropriated Nietzsche's ideas and made them his own. It may not have been Nietzsche's intent to have his themes taken out of context, but few thinkers have the luxury of controlling what others do with their work. It's unlikely he would have viewed a petty, dysfunctional and tyrannical little man like Hitler as the Übermensch that would usher in a new age of self-realization and cultural achievement. Yet Hitler was indeed a "monster filled with joy" with the "conscience of a beast of prey," as Nietzsche described. Vague phrasing provided a certain flexibility of interpretation."

Yeah I’m still waiting on that public speech made by Hitler in which he praised Friedrich Nietzsche. Is that forthcoming? On the other hand, I have offered you an ABUNDANCE of quotes in which Hitler testified to his own Christian faith and asked his fellow Nazis and Christian citizens to rally with him in public commentary.

Yet another

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Adolph Hitler

It doesn't really matter whether Hitler was a Christian or not.

Two truths are obvious:

1. There are historical records that he appealed to Christianity to enlist support for his genocide.

2. The Bible can in fact be used to support Hitler's view. Whether he actually used it for that or not is moot.

But clearly he did. The proof is in the history of his speeches.

What he personally might have believed is a moot point.

The only "argument" that modern day Christians can attempt to use to refute the fact that Adolph Hitler was a Christian is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy

Ok back to the moral argument, we have gone way off track. I still have not heard a refutation to it.

Both your arguments have been refuted. The ball is in your court at this point.

"IF" god only reside in the heart of each thing born, and control all things, and "IF" any mortal believe such delusions, then only what well up from the fountain of eternal all knowing from within, can complete the puzzle of all that is without, in the day the mind no longer attempt to solve, what be beyond any minds possibilty of imagination........

IF self be of and from god, and god be infinite knowing of all things, then what the mind surmize, using the number of 1 being one mind, to try to solve the number of infinity, cease, and wait on more from somewhere else besides what is already known, and allow what self WISH TO KNOW, to be whispered to self, ONLY on a as needed basis.......

for what thing truly know what be it's own answer, as if it was already known, self would have need of nothing, and enter into eternal rest that know no stress, and no anxiety, and no unknown, and no pain, and no tears, and find no lack of knowing why all fear the voice of god be trying to explain......

man was only purposed to run from fear in fright for a destined number of days, until the day the heart overwhelm and still the minds constant surmizings of what itself need, and the knowing fear is always god speaking to self become as plain, and the inner soul cry forth unto fear, show me........

just dumb ideas.....

peace

I'm going to cheat and use somebody elses work because I'm lazy and this relates to my other post.


Medical Evidence

First of all, 2 things to keep in mind: the existence of germs was unknown until the late 1800s. The first 5 books of the Bible were recorded by Moses approximately 1491-1451 BC. In these books God gives the Israelites medical instructions that far exceed the level of even the Egyptians back then. (The most advanced civilization at the time.)

In Exodus 15:26, God told the Israelites that if they obeyed all of His commandments and statutes that He gave to Moses, He would protect them from the plagues and sickness that afflicted the ancient Egyptians.

The medical laws and principles He then gave them were designed to protect everyone from the devastating diseases that have afflicted mankind throughout history.

Remember the Jews had lived as slaves to the Egyptians for 430 years. Whatever they knew of folk medicine and remedies was what they learned from the Egyptians. And they probably had all the same sicknesses. Deut. 28:27-28 tells us what they were; “The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, the tumors, with the scab and with the itch from which you can not be healed. The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of the heart.”

The Egyptian’s level of medical knowledge was extremely primitive and dangerous. For instance, for healing of an infected splinter wound, they were to make an application of an ointment of the blood of worms mixed with donkey dung! The author said that the various germs in this, including tetanus from the donkey dung would have made the patient forget the pain of the splinter because he would be dying from the treatment!

For snakebites they poured water over a pagan idol and then gave it to the victim to drink. Some of the other things they used in their medicines were: lizard’s blood, swine’s teeth, moisture from pigs’ ears, putrid meat, waste from just about every animal and even humans, etc. etc.

This would have all been familiar to Moses and the Israelites. But, Moses didn’t write about any of this. Only what God told him to. 213 out of 613 Biblical commandments found in the Torah are detailed medical regulations.

People back then, and even thousands of years later didn’t know that invisible and deadly germs could exist on eating and cooking utensils. Yet Lev. 6:28 says to discard broken pottery (because the cracks could contain harmful germs). They were also told to scour metal utensils.

Also throughout history, because they didn’t have refrigeration, people would eat decaying meat and just disguised the smell with lots of spices.
In Lev. 11:35 Moses wrote, “And everything on which a part of any such carcass falls shall be unclean; whether it is an oven or cooking stone, it shall be broken down; for they are unclean, and shall be unclean to you.” They weren’t to eat decaying meat; it was to be kept separate so it didn’t contaminate anything else. They weren’t to eat already dead animals because whatever they died from could affect them. That’s in Lev. 7:24

God also gave them laws to prevent the spread of infections. Numbers 19:14-17 talks about if a man dies in a tent, the people who had been in the tent should be kept in quarantine. If there were any vessels in the tent, which weren’t covered, they were unclean. If a person touched a dead body, they were unclean for 7 days and had to purify themselves. All of these rules we skimmed through while reading the Old Testament were given to keep them healthy!

An Hungarian Doctor worked in Vienna in 1845 and he noticed the high number of deaths of women who had babies in hospitals. (And these were mostly homeless and poor because well off women had their babies at home during this time.) He noticed that the doctors would be treating a woman who died and then go treat another woman without washing their hands. This was normal medical practice back then – because they didn’t know. But, 3500 years before this, God commanded the Israelites to wash their hands in running water when dealing with the sick. And it’s in Lev. 15:13.

God even knew not to wash your hands over again in the same bowl of water because the germs would just be floating there!

Leprosy killed millions of people over the course of history. But, the Bible had the priests acting as sort of medical control officers. They examined sick people to see if it was leprosy. If it was they pronounced him unclean and kept him from other people. Lev.13:43, 44, 46

There were laws for people recovering from illnesses and having to purify themselves and wait 7 more days, so they didn’t infect someone else.

Everyone knows about the Black Plague back in the Middle Ages. It seemed unbeatable. Almost 1/3 of the population of Europe died from it in the 14th century. Entire counties and towns were wiped out. The doctors had no clue what to do for these people even though they made the rounds – and then often died from it themselves.

Do you know how it was finally stopped? Some church leaders looked to the Bible for a divine medical solution for an apparently hopeless solution. And they began to follow the basic laws of sanitation and disease control. Lev. 13:46 told them what they needed to know: Quarantine!

There were more instructions for the caregivers: start cleaning their clothes and putting the clothes out in the sunlight. But, Moses’ instructions to segregate infected patients from their families and other people was one of the most important medical advancements in human history. The quarantine. Part of what the church fathers who read Lev. back during the plague did was, make a special medical quarantine compound outside the city where the sick were taken and caregivers fed them. Those who died in the streets or at home were instantly buried. Before, the dead would often be left in the house for a time with the living family.

God also gave the Israelites (and us) strict laws of hygiene and cleanliness. People used to not take baths (except the Jews). King James I of England (who was the one who ordered the translation of the Bible called The King James Version) never took a bath in his life! And Queen Isabelle was known to have said she only had one bath at birth and one on her wedding day! That’s why people back then loved snuff and perfume so much!

But, way back in Exodus 19:10 God told Moses to have the Israelites wash their clothes!
And the priests were told to wash their hands and feet in running water and their clothes. Remember the priests were the ones responsible for preparing and sacrificing animals on the altar.

The Bible also contains detailed instructions concerning the purification following the birth of a child.

There are a lot of other things: like the Israelites were told to build a kind of huge incinerator outside the city to burn the germ filled waste of sacrificed animals. Lev.4:11-12 says, “the bull’s hide and all its flesh, with its head and legs, its entrails and offal, the whole bull he shall carry outside the camp, it shall be burned on wood.”

At that time no one knew that animal waste and decaying organs would be dangerous because of microscopic germs. How would Moses have known – unless God told him?
Labels: medical laws in the Bible, proof the Bible is true, The Bible is the inspired word of God

That’s not relevant to the topic I don’t think?

No I do not think so.

Sanitation practices that were thousands of years more advanced than those used by any other civilization and you don't see it as relevant to if God exists or not?

I know of something more relevant, talk about Hitler being a Christian some more.

No I don’t as we were discussing objective morality as it related to the substantiation of a god. Also the OP brought up Hitler and Christianity. You might have noticed if you had read the thread.

You have not "heard" a refutation of your argument because you choose to keep both your eyes and your ears closed to any and all who have refuted your statements.

TITLE OF THE THREAD: "Arguments for the existence of God"

Nothing in the title says that it should only be arguments for the existence of God that have been approved by Krimsa.

Who care's who brought Hitler up? Is this a playground? Did I miss the rule that requires we act like fifth graders and cry "But he started it!!!"

Not to mention that the Pagan Romans had indoor plumbing and some of the most advanced and complex sanitation systems ever designed. Rome had an extensive network of drains and sewers. Open gutters and sewers, for instance, ran down the middle and sides of some of Rome's streets. Excess water from the aqueducts and runoff water from local streams were used to flush the sewers and drains of Rome.

Give your rebuttals one at a time and I will do my best to answer them. No one has put up a single good argument for the moral argument.

Both your objective moral arguments have been refuted and your "no true Scotsman" fallacy for Hitler's religion has been rebutted. That’s why I asked you to put forth something new if you like.