Romans 2

2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

"The doers of the law shall be justified."

Is salvation by faith alone? Thats another contradicton in my opinion.

If morality is not objective then you cant tell any one "thats wrong". Why, because morality is purely subjective and is merely personal opinion. You may not agree with it but it is not actually wrong. Things like rape, child abuse, mass genocide are not wrong.

Spoken like a true Christian I might add. Does that justify the burning of Witches, the Crusades, and Adolph Hitler so on and so forth?

My god , you guys are still arguing about god.

Hitler was an atheist. More people have been killed in the name of atheism than all the other major world religions put together. Nietzsche had a large influence on Hitler. Hitler personally presented copies of Nietzsche's writing to Stalin. It is true he was brought up as a confirmed catholic but he abandoned his faith.


We cannot lay at the feet of Christ many of the atrocities done in his name. "My kingdom is not of this world that men should fight over it". We have got to look at the at the person of Christ and His teachings.

Hitler
October 19, 1941
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

Hitler was a practicing Catholic.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922



That’s actually a screen capture from a film. Hitler LOVED the movies and he insisted that EVERYTHING be documented.

This is an excerpt from Hitler's alleged "Table Talks." These talks were hand transcribed by Martin Bormann. He served as the instigator, fuel, and reason for the perception of many Christians that Nazism was against Christianity. Many times, quotes attributed to Hitler are actually Bormann's. It is well known that Bormann secretly worked against the Catholic religion behind Hitler's back and without his permission. It has been pointed out that "the fight against the church organizations" were Bormann's pet project. In spite of Bormann's repeated attempts to persuade Hitler to act against the Churches, Hitler insisted that "There has been no official Party announcement, nor will there be one."

THat was in 1922, He abandoned christianity. He became a proud follower of Nietzsche. "Hitler often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and publicized his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man."

See this is where it gets goofy: a talk on the existence of god and we are on to the Nazis. Fundamentalism, is by definition, not a religion. Ref: that nun, whose name I forgot who wrote those god books<- good reference source aren't I? If you take the Bible literally then it falls in the realm of fundamentalism. Can you have a rational discussion when there is no rationalism. Either keep it to theology, philosophy, psychology, sociology or history. Try not to get mad at each other. It is about as important as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, just ask Fat Thomas Aquinas. is the White Goddess by robert graves literally true word for word, of course not, or the cattle raid of coolie, the mabonigon? the rig veda? My profile? LOL ha I had to throw that in there.

Have you read nietzche? You probably understand him as well as Hitler did which is to say that he and you are probably mistaken in your interpretation of his work.

Hitler was a proud follower of Nietzsche. He had a large influence on not only Hitler but the German Army as well


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_and_reception_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche

The only reason it was brought up at all is that the OP is attempting to re-write history. He is misrepresenting historical reality. I felt it only responsible of me to step in. Christians do this all the time.

If Hitler was aware of something what difference does that make? He wasn't a shut in. Far from it. He was a political leader and he only reached this level of control and authority due to his support and backing provided by the Catholic and the Protestant churches. He also used Christianity in order to further create a divide between Christians and Jews living in pre-WW2 Germany. Can you refute the evidence that he was a practicing Catholic? That is what I am waiting for.

This is an utterly assine conversation Nubby.

So all you are saying is that if there is no God then rape, child abuse, and mass genocide would be ok?

The argument that things things are only wrong if there is a God, or that a God must exist simply because people tend to agree that these things are wrong is utterly absurd.

There's no "proof of God" in any of this.

In fact, it doesn't even remotely suggest that there needs to be a God.

When a Christian talks like this all they are saying is, "Well, if it wasn't for God we could do anything and it would be perfectly alright"

In other words, all you are truely saying is that if we discovered that there is not God, then rape, child absuse, and mass genocide would be ok!

What the hell!

In other word YOU have no moral values at all.

The only thing that gives you moral values is a belief in a God.

Fine.

KEEP BELIEVING THEN!

Some of us have good moral values without having any need to believe in a God. Especially the Biblical God who has done, or condoned, everything that you've listed, rape, child abuse, and definitely mass genocide.

If you believe that mass genocide is wrong, then clearly the Biblical God is immortal.

Have your read the part about the Great Flood?

By your own standards the Biblical God is then immoral.

You claim to have higher moral standards than your God.

How can that be? You're trying to argue that you get your morals from God.

But clearly you have higher moral values than the Biblical God.

You better find yourself a better God to worship.

Of course he is, he is a Xian; they have a history of rewriting history to support their claims. come on they are insecure in their faith, so they shove it down other peoples throats.

I hope that was not too harsh.

No thats very true. Its also dangerous.

Not only that, but if go by the Bible mass genocide is not only OK, but it's the DUTY of anyone who worships the Biblical God!

According to the Bible mass genocide is perfectly moral if the people you are murdering are heathens.

In fact, according to the Bible Hitler was doing precisely what the Biblical God had commanded him to do!

Murder heathens!

According to the NT anyone who rejects Jesus is a heathen. Jews rejects Jesus, therefore they are heathens.

Hitler was in perfect obedience and compliance with the commandments of the God of Abraham!

He must now be sitting at the Left Hand of God across from Jesus. He did precisely what the Biblical God had command us to do! Murder Heathens, their wives, and children.

That's what you are supporting when you support that ruthless Mediterranean mythology.

Moral arguments for the existance of a God would absoltuely rule out the Mediterranean myth anyway.