Many fundamentalist Christians ask me questions like, “If God didn’t create the Universe, how did the Universe get here?” First, this question concludes the answer right from the start and then goes on to suggest that it is the only possible answer. Instead of using the evidence to come up with a theory, the fundamentalist has the “Truth” and then looks for evidence to support their “Truth.” Should they find evidence which contradicts their “Truth” then that evidence must be wrong because we already have the conclusion, i.e. the “Truth.”

Now, the common response to this question about the creation of the Universe is to ask how did God create the Universe (according to the Fundamentalist Christian) and who created God? Of course the Fundamentalist Christian has an answer to these questions. God is God and outside of time and space and not bound by the laws of the universe so he neither has a beginning nor an end. God just is. How did God create the Universe? He works in mysterious ways. But what you won’t hear a Fundamentalist Christian say are “I Don’t Know.” They have an answer to everything and they expect science to have an alternative answer for everything.

The problem is that science doesn’t really have answers. Science has theories which fit the facts and the evidence as we know them, but tomorrow we can learn something new and all of science can change. Science doesn’t really have “Truth” in the same way that religion has “Truth.” There are some scientific theories that are so solid in evidence that we think of them as truth, but they are not “Truth.” We are pretty certain that the world is a spherical (more or less), but we may discover some new dimension which changes the way we look at the Earth. And while we are pretty certain, maybe even reasonably certain, we are not absolutely 100% certain. That’s just not science because the fact is that we don’t know everything. We discover the world and try to make sense of it using the scientific process.

The irony is that Fundamentalist Christians often claim that people of reason think they know everything while at the same time telling us that they know with absolute 100% certainty that there is a God and that the Bible is His Word. In order to skirt the pot calling the kettle black, Fundamentalist Christians often fall back to their fake humility of “I am an evil sinner, an ant to God, and He knows everything, not me.” But it does seem that they know with absolute certainty that God exists, wrote (or inspired the writing of… with the Holy Spirit) the Bible, and that this God has communicated this knowledge to them. How do they know that with such absolute certainty? I bet they won’t say, “I don’t know.”

the conscious mind live in bias, unequal be it's game, lucifer the carnel be the name, the dragon and it's flame, the mouth that wield the sword, it neighbor to defame, but the subconscious the inner sanctum, speak what float the boat, the ark upon the waters, each mortal human brain, the heart the wishing well, that clear up all distain, set the tide to imcoming, empty out what was retained...........

um......yeah o.k.

when you ask a christian if there is a god they will almost always say yes.
And that is intilectualy dishonest.
Because they realy don't know but they will not say I don't know.

there is a God......and he created the universe

Got proof to back up that claim?

was there ice on mars before we discovered it

and ice on Mars only proves there is ice on mars. . .

would the ice still exist if we had never discovered it??

Obviously, the ice would still be there whether or not we discovered it. Your argument doesn't have anything to do with proving the existence of a deity.

Disregarded truths of the "fundamentalists" include the fact that the bible is a compilation of texts which were written by man at different times, that were taken by "those of chosen destiny" and edited and some texts were discarded because they spoke of things the "chosen" did not feel supported the "theme" that should be in said "reverent" "bible". So basically the word of god in this sense was not even allowed to be, because of man's agenda.

And that is the only one of the "links" that do not connect in the whole chain of hoodoo they expect logical intelligent people to believe.

No offense intended here of course, everyone has the right to believe how they want as long as they do not force it on everyone else.

What is a "fundamentalist christain"? Is that like a breed of some sort? Like a poodle or bulldog...

Your post has an assumed ambiguity in terms of semantics with the manner in which you use coined phrases and the presumptions you have with how a christians thinks in terms of responding to the philosophical questions you offer.

First off. A christian is a christian. The labels of "fundamentalist - legalistic - evangelical" - whatever, are essentially separatist, and stand in contradiction to the scriptures which give meaning to the word "christian" in the first place. What would be an example of a "non-fundamentalist christian" I wonder?

Though I don't find the question asked to be objectionable - that of inquiring what one's world view of the explination of the origin of the universe - asking if "one does not believe in God - then what", is merely stating the question from a vantange point of a creationist world view. Would not the same answer result from asking "If you don't think UFO's brought man to this planet - where did we come from?" - as a means of inquiring what one thinks the origins of life are? Despite what one's response to this question is - it is always going to be one that is based on faith - reguardless of one's world view - for there is no evidence to the origin of the universe - scientific or theological. The only evidence one has is that of perception, and that is purely subjective - even as it presumes to support a world view. Nothing me than that. Despite one's claims. That should be understood by anyone. Christian or not.



To ask the question "Who created God?" is not to have a grasp of the meaning of the word. Else - it's creative semantics. Asking any christian (whether you wish to catogorize them as fundamentalist or whatever) this question would prompt the response of "What is this God you are refering to?". To attempt to respond to the question "How did God create the universe?" by any christain is an indication of not having understood the question. The only answer a christain can give is "what" God did - not how God did it. The bible does not expound on the "how" of creation. So - my response to your question is "I don't know how God created the universe. So you will hear a christain say it. So in this point - you are wrong. Perhaps you know of a christain who ight not come up with "I don't know" as an answer - but don't assume they represent all of chrisendom by your limited control group.



I don't think this is something that is not understood by anyone who has managed to pass through 12 years of any academic institution. However - the issue comes when scientific theory attempts to extrapolate the information backward in time with the same presummed reliability for periods of time in excess of billions of years. Then credibility becomes an issue.



For any christian - "I don't know" - is not a viable option to their certainty that God exists. The proof is in the life they live and the experiences thereof. The key word here is experience. Certainly one's world view comes into play here. I can look at a tree and know that the mere existance of it is part of the total ecological system of the functioning of the planet, and attribute that as part of an intelligent design - but to a chemical evolutionist - I cannot share this experience of certainty, for their world view is that the same tree they see is here by random chance, and has adapted itself into the eco-system through it's need to survive. Yet what we can both claim with absolute certainty is that "there's a tree". The "how" of the tree remains uncertain - unless one of us planted it - which then begs the question "how did the seed get here", and on and on it goes. There's just no means of establishing "evidence" to support the assurity with which one wishes to claim their belief that something is "the" truth - to convince another that they somehow are the only true witnessess of truth.

I don't think this is a unique attribute of christians. I believe we all share this.

In a cause and effect universe, everything that exists must have a cause. What you end up with is an infinite chain of causality, which cannot exist. Therefore something that isn't subject to the laws of cause and effect created the universe. Now the only thing that can exist without a cause is "necessary". Necessary means that it exists regardless of whatever else happens. For example: The number "2" is still "2" even if there is no universe. The human mind can only conceive of two things which are "necessary". Abstract concepts, like numbers and god. Since thoughts and numbers show no ability to create anything, the only possible necessary cause of the universe is a god.

Now I'm sure many responses will be made to this and they may seem to make sense, but they don't. We live in a cause and effect universe, in order to refute my post, you would have to prove that something in this universe doesn't need a cause. That's the first step. The problem is that every branch of science depends on cause and effect. The human mind cannot grasp the concept of an effect without a cause. Our science, society and very sanity depends upon it.

Yes there is and he did and no don't have any proof that would work for most skeptics.



but then again, I don't need proof, others seem to need it. I am content and happy with my beliefs and enjoy Gods many blessings daily.

There are three types of religious people IMO, some mix and match to their liking.

1) Those that actually keep it to themselves, and do good things (from their perspective), don't necessarily believe everything that comes there way but don't care becuase its a theme more then anything. Anything that opposes that theme is disregarded becuase its the bigger picture that matters, they usually don't sweat the small stuff and wont argue about details.

2) Those that use religion as a tool for power and control over others. Hamas anyone? I don't think I need to say a lot about this type, some of them will kill with little regard for life as long as there is no reciprocation due to power differentials, I think all of this type would kill if the system in place grants them the authority, or if they can manage to take it. All it takes to rationalize it is to use the harsher points in the scripture which justifies it FROM GOD and move on to the next move that heightens there power base.

3) Sheep who engage with a charismatic religious "leader" who evokes all kinds of pleasure center reactions in there brains and this person "illuminated" god for them, so what ever doctrine that is they will follow blindly. The sheep LOVE to argue over the details becuase its all about who is closer to god, anyone that doesn't believe there specific doctrine is wrong and going to hell, or at least wont reach heaven which is all made up garbage to elicit pleasure center response when the sheep thinks its in the right. Sheep will follow a #2 if that was there "leader" who originally evoked this initial pleasure center response and induced the religious enlightenment feeling in the brain.If they find a more Charismatic leader who isn't too different then they can change denominations easily.


I would say thankfully that most in America are #1 and #3 or a mixture of those to differing degrees.

Most other parts of the world are ruled by #2's especially in 3rd world countries.

DavidBen,

Love your poetry!

It's solid gold.

the dawn of man a sunrise at dusk, the infinite circle that create all trust, evidence buried deep in the crust, flanks all swollen about to bust, the tail the head need not a toss, nothing missing not one ounce as lost, dead and dying be no more the cost, justice roam the world evil to accost, wormwood the holy that swarmed the land, marked the mind and tied the hands, pours holy minds thru the eye of the needle like sand, the lamb once bleeding no longer a man, open the books each page to unfold, trees all plucked fig leaves once sold, trunks of cedar and hickory and burl, all that was spoken now be unfurled, the measure of knowing as what be welcome, infinite possibilities cannot be broken, all in the universe as one unbroken, winter and summer the spring rains bring the token, the chariots ride and unbridle the bits that choke, perfect love created no longer be broke, one rider come forth and smash the yoke, imagination prick reality just as was spoke, nights and days and no more sky, signs in the scrolls cure all evil eye, the dragon it struggle but soon shall die, let fear and love be summoned on high, erase the divide and courage take flight, the day and hour pass in just one night, yang be ying and zen the purple cord, all one mind and all of accord, spirits once beaten now gold they afford, wisdom and truth the king and lord, earth as shaken the divine as rose, the womb as closed all mankind exposed, perplexion and confusion no longer the foe, the hair of wisdom white and long it grow, firery reason with no start and no end, einstien and lennon casey nostros begin, gravity wane and big wheels they do spin, equal be the flame that burn within, once what was wrote that made the mote, breached all logic crafted each boat, trees cut down and all branches afloat, once broken cisterns now where the coat, old magic carpets once damaged and torn, race thru the skies and erase the scorn, bias birthed equality and freedom is born, the crop be readied now harvest the corn, come ye hither all cursed good or bad, truth be equalized and erase all the sad, dries the tears and remove the gag, young and old the prize be had, the myths displaced that made malice and hate, time wound tight release the plan and set the fate, memories jagged stones laid plain and straight, uncover the path and lead to the gate, childlike toddlers released from a fall, wise all knowing now grown and tall, balance now free released from the stall, honest candor come one and all, hearts open forth and set free the sails, pious kingdoms do crumble and fail, holy perceptions no longer avial, truth as slavery no man buy or sell, flying eagle eyes rip down all the blinds, infinite unlock each creature sublime, new horizons redeem once feeble minds, mankinds destiny about to unwind, awareness as free if no holier than thee, shatters the hourglass set captives free, the veil now rent what do you see, equality quell the hearts that bleed, bias the serpent the once ravaged and beat, starved to death no mortals to eat, brotherhood the meat prepare the feast, power as perfect no strongarm defeat, the son arise and stop mercy for cash, hatred sold once that ripped the sash, dogma and doctrine burned in the trash, united mankind now nothing dare abash, machines stop churning the earth no more turning, what crawled on its belly now no more hurting, holy spirits removed eyes now yearning, the snake distain give way to learning, no lion no lamb no bear no beast, taste the ripened fruit of equality, pure wisdom blind eyes to entreat, proposed evil slaves now smile with glee, holy leaders in fright do flee, towns and countries and cities ensanred now free, prepare the magic and light up the show, trees of knowledge cut down and smote, trees of life now free to grow, eternal life let lose to flow, what was down now up and up as down, no more mary round and round, eves adorned in rainbow gowns, adom in flux light up the towns, wonderland stories once as foretold, greatness unvieled swallow the fold, universe four sides now do unfold, galaxie laid out all eyes behold, civilization the statue now as complete, hands with swords no longer compete, gather all adoms untie the energy, towers of commerce as silent and empty, perpetual spirit stop all the commotion, equal the prophet stir the big potion, rise the atlantis and erase all notions, spark the perpetual and set infinite in motion.............