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| Topic: There is no sin, there are no commandments | |
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12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Does Jesus Judge people or not? John 5:26-27 (Judgment) The Father ... hath given him authority to execute judgment. John 8:15 (NO Judgment) Ye judge after the flesh; judge no man.  We judge ourselves by either rejecting, or accepting God's Holy Word...Is how I take his words... |
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12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Does Jesus Judge people or not? John 5:26-27 (Judgment) The Father ... hath given him authority to execute judgment. John 8:15 (NO Judgment) Ye judge after the flesh; judge no man. That was Jesus speaking about his time on earth. The judgement comes later at the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10) and at the Great White Throne (Rev. 20:11) Thank you Skad 
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Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day,
If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. |
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Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. perfectly said.. in Christian belief.
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That’s a lot of pressure to put on someone and its not very "Jesus like" in terms of how we are typically supposed to think of Jesus. He’s basically saying get on board with this or its eternal damnation for you. That's a whole lot of ultimatum giving.
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In all honesty, I think I understand the basic underlying message of Christianity. "Christ" basically represents the path of love and compassion. (The personality of Jesus is only a fictional representation of that, ~~ not a real person IMO.) The "Christ Consciousness" is one of love and compassion. One must pass through this consciousness in order to progress to the higher worlds. Hence the declaration that the only way to God is through Christ. Christ equals the path of love and compassion. There are two directions to proceed in this world of duality. There are two players in the game. Those players represent good and evil. Christ represents the "good," (love and compassion) the devil represents the "evil." (Disregard for others, no love or compassion for others) It is the Yin and the Yang. The dark and the light. But it is all just a game. Both the good and the evil paths are just part of the game I think. No one is all good and no one is all evil. We each of us are a mixture of both. I think the true path is one of balance between the two. I think the true path leads to the true self. |
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That’s a lot of pressure to put on someone and its not very "Jesus like" in terms of how we are typically supposed to think of Jesus. He’s basically saying get on board with this or its eternal damnation for you. That's a whole lot of ultimatum giving. Yes...much pressure... But the upside is everlasting life and glorious communion with God.
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Heaven doesn’t look all that appealing to me really. I kind of have my heart set on reincarnation. I guess to many Christians the prospect of returning to earth might as well be hell.
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Heaven doesn’t look all that appealing to me really. I kind of have my heart set on reincarnation. I guess to many Christians the prospect of returning to earth might as well be hell. reincarnation? A respectful question...Purely out of curiousity... Would you hope to return as a human ? I promise that no sarcastic remarks on my part will ensue...purely respectful... |
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It wouldnt matter. I would be fine with an animal or even a tree. Im not picky.
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Because "The wages of sin is death." Actually this is another oxymoron here as well. In some places the Bible seems to say that the wages of sin is death. So how did that get turned into the idea of eternal damnation? Also, where does it ever say that to not believe that Jesus is the sacrificial lamb of the God of Abraham is a sin? Jesus himself said: John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Clearly if Jesus was God and he said in his own words that he will not judge those who don't believe his words, then being a non-believer cannot possibly be a sin. And therefore it could not be grounds for either eternal damnation, or even death. Where do Christians come up with all their hateful conclusions about God being so anxious to punish people? It clearly didn't come from Jesus. According to Jesus it's not even important to believe in his words, much less that he was any sacrifical lamb of God. So where do the Christians get off even claiming that this is the case? I'm, sure they can dig up verses that contradict what John claims that Jesus said. But if they do all that proves is that the Bible is full of contraditions. Either people have been misquoting Jesus or Jesus himself was sending mixed messages. Neither scenario would be good. John 12, verses 44 through 50, "44Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me, 45 and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me. 46 I came into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. 48 Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, 49 because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me." These verses together put what Jesus said in context. Not at all. These are what the author who called himself "John" claims that Jesus supposedly said. Skad is right about one thing though. It is senseless to discuss what's written in the Bible because as soon as you get into that you fall prey to the insane notion that what's written in the book is even credible in the first place. As far as I'm concerned it's all demagoguery that was shoved into the mouth of a dead man anyway. The authors of the Bible just used Jesus as a dead marionette doll to further their agenda which was to control the masses though a dependency on the authority of the Church. I personally doubt that any man named John even wrote that gospel, or if he did, it was heavily edited by the authorities before being proclaimed 'the gospel' by the church. I just can't understand why people are so anxious to make God out to be such a jerk. It's just totally beyond my comprehension. The Bible is full of bigotry and hatred toward non-believers of a stupid religion. There's no way that anyone will ever convince me that God is a jealous egotist. If a genine divine creator had inspired men to write down his thoughts, he would have inspiried men from all around the globe to write down the same things. The idea that the creator of this universe would have been limited to only inspiring men from the Middle East to tell his story is truly unwise, IMHO. That would imply a creator who is either extremely limited in what he can do, or exteremly stupid. I don't believe that the creator of all mankind is either limited or stupid. How an anyone believe that the creator of all mankind would only speak to a select culture in the Middle East? Isn't that alone enough reason to know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it can't possible be the word of the creator of this universe? It's clearly the religious history of a very limited culture that used God as an excuse for their bigotry and murdering. It just seems to me that this should be obvious to any person who is sincerely interested in discovering the true nature of the creator of the universe as a whole. Why worship the mythology of a limited culture? |
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It wouldnt matter. I would be fine with an animal or even a tree. Im not picky. That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.  My little brother and I like to sometimes discuss/debate theological questions concerning the afterlife. He once put forth the hypothosis that maybe we live millions of lifetimes and through each incarnation we experience a different form of life, thus giving us a relateable frame of reference to what life is really about. I thought that notion was interesting too. |
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John 5:23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son
This pretty much flies in the face of the idea that the Father will judge anyone. Clearly the Bible is full of inconsistencies. At the very best it's a hogepodge of conflicting statements. So I'm supposed to believe that a divine being is confused and sends ambigious mixed messages in an inspired book and then expects people to make sense of them? Actuall the statement above makes sense in term of Buddhism. We are our own judges. Jesus even said that somewhere, I'm not going to bother looking up the precise verse, but he said something to the affect that we will be judge as we judge others. Based on that alone I would have a get into heaven free card, because I judge no one in terms of morality. This also fits in precisely with the concepts of Buddhism. In any case, I see no point in demanding that God hates non-believers and will punish people for not believing in a ambigious book that was written by ancient ignorant men. If that's my only sin and I'll be sent to hell for it then so be it. Like I always say, if my own sin is to believe that God was actually nicer than me and I turn out to be wrong, then so be it. To worship such a God would not be an option anyway. That would be like worshiping Hitler just to avoid his wrath. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 01/02/09 08:41 PM
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Allen
Thats interesting. I do believe we have all lived life after life but I dont know if its always human to human transference or it can cross. And if so, do ALL organic life forms have souls like trees and bushes and grass. It seems like if humans have souls, everything else living would just as easily. . |
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Heaven doesn’t look all that appealing to me really. I kind of have my heart set on reincarnation. I guess to many Christians the prospect of returning to earth might as well be hell. reincarnation? A respectful question...Purely out of curiousity... Would you hope to return as a human ? I promise that no sarcastic remarks on my part will ensue...purely respectful... For me, reincarnation is a fact. Each person lives around 1500 lives on earth alone before ascending to the higher worlds. You will seldom incarnate into a lower animal, that would be like going from 12th grade back to 3erd grade. But I don't see "heaven" as the reward after leaving this world. The reward for our spiritual progress is more and more freedom to do what we want and go where we want in the vast universes available to us. The ultimate reward is to be able to follow our purpose towards what ever creative work we enjoy doing. |
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It wouldnt matter. I would be fine with an animal or even a tree. Im not picky. That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. My little brother and I like to sometimes discuss/debate theological questions concerning the afterlife. He once put forth the hypothosis that maybe we live millions of lifetimes and through each incarnation we experience a different form of life, thus giving us a relateable frame of reference to what life is really about. I thought that notion was interesting too. I agree with your little brother's idea. Before becoming humanoid, I think we experience all manner of life forms. I also see the universe as being alive. |
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Because "The wages of sin is death." Actually this is another oxymoron here as well. In some places the Bible seems to say that the wages of sin is death. So how did that get turned into the idea of eternal damnation? Also, where does it ever say that to not believe that Jesus is the sacrificial lamb of the God of Abraham is a sin? Jesus himself said: John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Clearly if Jesus was God and he said in his own words that he will not judge those who don't believe his words, then being a non-believer cannot possibly be a sin. And therefore it could not be grounds for either eternal damnation, or even death. Where do Christians come up with all their hateful conclusions about God being so anxious to punish people? It clearly didn't come from Jesus. According to Jesus it's not even important to believe in his words, much less that he was any sacrifical lamb of God. So where do the Christians get off even claiming that this is the case? I'm, sure they can dig up verses that contradict what John claims that Jesus said. But if they do all that proves is that the Bible is full of contraditions. Either people have been misquoting Jesus or Jesus himself was sending mixed messages. Neither scenario would be good. John 12, verses 44 through 50, "44Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me, 45 and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me. 46 I came into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. 48 Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, 49 because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me." These verses together put what Jesus said in context. Not at all. These are what the author who called himself "John" claims that Jesus supposedly said. Skad is right about one thing though. It is senseless to discuss what's written in the Bible because as soon as you get into that you fall prey to the insane notion that what's written in the book is even credible in the first place. As far as I'm concerned it's all demagoguery that was shoved into the mouth of a dead man anyway. The authors of the Bible just used Jesus as a dead marionette doll to further their agenda which was to control the masses though a dependency on the authority of the Church. I personally doubt that any man named John even wrote that gospel, or if he did, it was heavily edited by the authorities before being proclaimed 'the gospel' by the church. I just can't understand why people are so anxious to make God out to be such a jerk. It's just totally beyond my comprehension. The Bible is full of bigotry and hatred toward non-believers of a stupid religion. There's no way that anyone will ever convince me that God is a jealous egotist. If a genine divine creator had inspired men to write down his thoughts, he would have inspiried men from all around the globe to write down the same things. The idea that the creator of this universe would have been limited to only inspiring men from the Middle East to tell his story is truly unwise, IMHO. That would imply a creator who is either extremely limited in what he can do, or exteremly stupid. I don't believe that the creator of all mankind is either limited or stupid. How an anyone believe that the creator of all mankind would only speak to a select culture in the Middle East? Isn't that alone enough reason to know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it can't possible be the word of the creator of this universe? It's clearly the religious history of a very limited culture that used God as an excuse for their bigotry and murdering. It just seems to me that this should be obvious to any person who is sincerely interested in discovering the true nature of the creator of the universe as a whole. Why worship the mythology of a limited culture? Just a personal observation, respectfully submitted and correct me if I'm drastically mistaken but it seems to me that folks who are so absolute in their disbeliefs and have no regard for the notion of Divine authorship of the Holy Bible sometimes spend a seemingly over the top amount of time and energy disputing the beliefs of those who accept same. "Me thinks thou dos't protest too much" Do they think the Christians are going to round up all the unbelievers and cast them into lake of gasoline? |
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Heaven doesn’t look all that appealing to me really. I kind of have my heart set on reincarnation. I guess to many Christians the prospect of returning to earth might as well be hell. reincarnation? A respectful question...Purely out of curiousity... Would you hope to return as a human ? I promise that no sarcastic remarks on my part will ensue...purely respectful... For me, reincarnation is a fact. Each person lives around 1500 lives on earth alone before ascending to the higher worlds. You will seldom incarnate into a lower animal, that would be like going from 12th grade back to 3erd grade. But I don't see "heaven" as the reward after leaving this world. The reward for our spiritual progress is more and more freedom to do what we want and go where we want in the vast universes available to us. The ultimate reward is to be able to follow our purpose towards what ever creative work we enjoy doing. How about those who's creative work is to do all manner of evil? What do they progress to? Or are we bound to host them repetitively? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 01/02/09 08:55 PM
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On Judgement:
I believe that we do indeed judge ourselves. In this tarot card, one that is called judgment, a woman stands looking at a gravestone. There is a ghostly figure above the gravestone which represents that she is thinking about her own life and death and reflecting on it. It is at this point that she is at a crossroad in her life. She is about to enter a new life as a new person, tired of her old life as a warrior. At this point she has judged herself and her life and has made the decision to change. This is the energy of being "born again" and becoming a new person and walking down a new path.  |
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Allen Thats interesting. I do believe we have all lived life after life but I dont know if its always human to human transference or it can cross. And if so, do ALL organic life forms have souls like trees and bushes and grass. It seems like if humans have souls, everything else living would just as easily. . I think Hinduism incapsules that idea. I'm not sure if there's other well known faiths that do or not... |
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